snowbird expansion into american fork canyon?

[powdork]

Skied the Wasatch for the first time a few years ago and it quickly struck me just how small that area is - I was kind of surprised. Seems odd to me that any locals would be for more resort expansion.

They really aren't all that small it's just the vast majority ski Little or Big Cottonwood or very nearby.
And the Uintas are closer to Salt Lake than the eastside is to Tahoe.

[Dantheman]

Skied the Wasatch for the first time a few years ago and it quickly struck me just how small that area is - I was kind of surprised. Seems odd to me that any locals would be for more resort expansion.

Check out the poll at the bottom of getoutside's link, almost 13k votes with 78% opposed. There's also a regional breakdown available and the only states where a majority favor the idea are on the east coast. Resort expansion is never popularly supported here. The ski industry is just a powerful lobby, and in this case things are further compounded by the fact that the ground is privately owned and this area is in Utah "Any Development Is Good Development" County.

Right, natural progression to ask for a better road in AF in 5 years, a base area. A restaurant, etc.

There's no way that isn't their long-term plan. I'm sure it's Utah County's long-term goal too. They just have to take their time boiling the frog.

[detrusor]

I've heard the plan is for a tram?

[Dantheman]

If you're referring to the proposed AF Twins tram, AFAIK they've dropped that idea (for now).

[getoutside]

dan's right. just chairs for now but the other items mentioned, all remain as long term targets

[bigdude2468]

dan's right. just chairs for now but the other items mentioned, all remain as long term targets

I don't have a dog in this fight either way, I don't ski Snowbird and have no plans to do so. With SB owning the land would they not be able to shut down all access to the property they own, no hiking, no camping, no ATV's etc?

[Johnny Deep]

I don't have a dog in this fight either way, I don't ski Snowbird and have no plans to do so. With SB owning the land would they not be able to shut down all access to the property they own, no hiking, no camping, no ATV's etc?

They allow all that in Mineral Basin.

[muted]

Check out the poll at the bottom of getoutside's link, almost 13k votes with 78% opposed.

A KSL poll doesn't hold any weight, for anything, ever.

in this case things are further compounded by the fact that the ground is privately owned.

In my opinion, private property trumps all. Protesting a ski area for putting up lifts on land it owns? That's what ski areas do.

There's no way that isn't their long-term plan. I'm sure it's Utah County's long-term goal too. They just have to take their time boiling the frog.

Good point. I'd be surprised if the AF road isn't improved to build their only their lifts. But that is no wilderness they are expanding on.

[Dantheman]

A KSL poll doesn't hold any weight, for anything, ever.

I never said it was definitive in any way. Still, it's telling given the majority of KSL's audience.

In my opinion, private property trumps all. Protesting a ski area for putting up lifts on land it owns? That's what ski areas do.

They own basically all of Superior too. Would you be OK with a tram up the SE face? Private property owners get told what they can and cannot do with the ground every day.

But that is no wilderness they are expanding on.

With the exception of legal (and quite difficult) motorized access, IMO Mary Ellen is on par with White Pine as far as wilderness character.

[muted]

I never said it was definitive in any way. Still, it's telling given the majority of KSL's audience..

C'mon you were implying it meant something. I don't think it's telling at all. Did a bunch of BC skiers post the poll to their facebook page? Maybe. I can't believe all the stay-at-home-moms that read KSL are opposed to Snowbird or are frequent skiers.

They own basically all of Superior too. Would you be OK with a tram up the SE face? Private property owners get told what they can and cannot do with the ground every day.

I wouldn't be OK with it but it's their property not mine. A ski area has ski lifts, what do you expect? (And not to split hairs, but I though they owned a small part of it. Someone else owns most of it, but I could be wrong.)

With the exception of legal (and quite difficult) motorized access, IMO Mary Ellen is on par with White Pine as far as wilderness character.

fair point, i'm more thinking of that white-trash zone below it. Last time I fished there there were ATVers driving into the water to scare their female passengers 10 feet from me.

I didn't catch anything that day.

[Dantheman]

C'mon you were implying it meant something. I don't think it's telling at all. Did a bunch of BC skiers post the poll to their facebook page? Maybe. I can't believe all the stay-at-home-moms that read KSL are opposed to Snowbird or are frequent skiers.

FB/viral antics are definitely possible, forgot about that momentarily (though there's no evidence that actually happened). I think the larger point stands though, ski area expansion in the Wasatch is not popularly supported.

I wouldn't be OK with it but it's their property not mine. A ski area has ski lifts, what do you expect? (And not to split hairs, but I though they owned a small part of it. Someone else owns most of it, but I could be wrong.)

Any and all private property being fair game for ski area expansion is a very slippery slope.

fair point, i'm more thinking of that white-trash zone below it. Last time I fished there there were ATVers driving into the water to scare their female passengers 10 feet from me.

I didn't catch anything that day.

Tibble? Yeah, that place gets hammered.

[BobMc]

The problem with the "It's their land and they should be able to do what they want with it.." argument is that they also operate on public land. Not Snowbird as much, but most of the resorts rely on land you and I own. They then turn around and use the it's our land argument on expansions they want. If they want to claim the private property angle they should relinquish their operations on public land. Or, I suppose everything is for the greater good...

[mall walker]

Yep public land is ours and they must make the case to us that their intended use is better than letting nature take its toll. And it never is.

[Nevada29er]

UT is the new CA

[powdork]

You shut yer dirty whore mouth!

[skifishbum]

sposedly there is someone on the opposition facefuck page with land he is subleasing
powder pondos in look for the baker tent in the middle of their groomer
i post n hang out here cause it's a community of good peeps that enhance my irl life
ifin i thought posting on ksl would do the same i'd post there
but its a bunch of opinionated assholes with way to much cube life or mom life time on their hands and not so many ski bums

[Trackhead]

RIP Mary Ellen. I sold my stake in Utah and moved to Alaska. In my 15 or so years touring in the Wasatch, I only skied through Mary Ellen once or twice, and when I was there, I shared it with the heli folks, so I can't say that I have a huge beef with the issue. Hopefully it won't proliferate into something more than we can't comprehend or anticipate now.
Attachment 187290

I enjoyed my time in the Wasatch, but when I come back to visit, the crowds kind of change the experience. It's easy to avoid them, but the place really has changed dramatically in the last five years.

[gravitylover]

RIP Mary Ellen. I sold my stake in Utah and moved to Alaska. In my 15 or so years touring in the Wasatch, I only skied through Mary Ellen once or twice, and when I was there, I shared it with the heli folks, so I can't say that I have a huge beef with the issue. Hopefully it won't proliferate into something more than we can't comprehend or anticipate now.
Attachment 187290

I enjoyed my time in the Wasatch, but when I come back to visit, the crowds kind of change the experience. It's easy to avoid them, but the place really has changed dramatically in the last five years.

I was wondering where you had disappeared to. I miss your TR's.