Is the average rider aware of BS marketing / standards/ wheels size?

**Damian Sanders** · 06-08-2015, 12:42 PM

...........I mean, I read online about how full of crap the bike industry is, but somebody has to buy this stuff, right? Dentists?

**LeeLau** · 06-08-2015, 02:27 PM

No

**Damian Sanders** · 06-08-2015, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

No

Seriously, who are these people who buy the latest $1,000 - $10,000 bikes, while actually believing industry marketing?

**flatlander#2** · 06-08-2015, 03:48 PM

Your Mom.

**Mr. Toad** · 06-08-2015, 03:54 PM

You shouldn't believe everything you read.

**LeeLau** · 06-08-2015, 04:31 PM

You ask this question? On this site? Where everyone is an expert skier and tours 10k + vert a day in their mind?

**joetron** · 06-08-2015, 04:53 PM

Oh the standardzzzzz!

Mountain bikes are better than they've ever been, and there is a bike or the equipment to build a bike for just about every niche or style of riding out there.

There's a couple of headsets, a couple of bottom brackets, a couple of wheel sizes...complaining about that stuff is like complaining about different manufacturers' frame geometries.

Boost will be phased with OEM and filter down from high end mtb over the next few years, but there will still be plenty of 142 thru and pre-boost cranksets out there for aftermarket for a long time

Look on the bright side...we are only using a fraction of the seat post sizes that have existed over the years, you'll probably never have to worry about a French bottom bracket ever again!

**PNWbrit** · 06-08-2015, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

You ask this question? On this site? Where everyone is an expert skier and tours 10k + vert a day in their mind and has to hashtag their extensive list of "sponsors" on every FB post?

FIFY.

**HankScorpio** · 06-08-2015, 05:51 PM

Ah yes new mountain bike standards: Fixing problems that never existed in the first place.

**alewi11** · 06-08-2015, 08:13 PM

I get frustrated by the ever changing standards as well. However, your post implies that the bike industry just makes changes to sell more shit to the masses. I will concede that there is probably some of that, but a lot of the changes really are actual improvements. A lot of people bitched about Sram using the XD driver when they moved to 11 speed stuff. If you've used one, you know how much better they are than a standard freehub body. I can't tell you how many cassettes I've had stuck on standard freehubs.

The bike industry can't always know which changes are going to be truly beneficial so they roll out a lot of shit people aren't going to care about. You don't have to buy it. In fact, if you're ok with the old technology it should be a good thing. People are basically giving away 26 inch bikes and parts. There's going to be a point when some things are so outdated, you'll be forced to move on. By that time you can just move on to the newly discarded previous year's wonder bike.

I think we can all agree what we have now is better than square taper bottom brackets and quick releases. If the bike industry wasn't pushing for incremental improvements every year, that's what we'd still be riding.

**54-46** · 06-08-2015, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by alewi11

I get frustrated by the ever changing standards as well. However, your post implies that the bike industry just makes changes to sell more shit to the masses. I will concede that there is probably some of that, but a lot of the changes really are actual improvements. A lot of people bitched about Sram using the XD driver when they moved to 11 speed stuff. If you've used one, you know how much better they are than a standard freehub body. I can't tell you how many cassettes I've had stuck on standard freehubs.

The bike industry can't always know which changes are going to be truly beneficial so they roll out a lot of shit people aren't going to care about. You don't have to buy it. In fact, if you're ok with the old technology it should be a good thing. People are basically giving away 26 inch bikes and parts. There's going to be a point when some things are so outdated, you'll be forced to move on. By that time you can just move on to the newly discarded previous year's wonder bike.

I think we can all agree what we have now is better than square taper bottom brackets and quick releases. If the bike industry wasn't pushing for incremental improvements every year, that's what we'd still be riding.

I dunno, I'm riding a state of the art circa 2003 Titus with 26" wheels, v-brakes, and quick release hubs. I demoed an Ibis Ripley, and although it was way faster and the ride was smoother, it wasn't necessarily more fun.

If you're just out it have fun and get a little exercise, then old stuff works fine. If you're trying to go fast or go big maybe not so much.

I like companies trying different stuff - I just wish they'd try to get stuff dialed a little more before they moved on.

**alewi11** · 06-08-2015, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by 54-46

I like companies trying different stuff - I just wish they'd try to get stuff dialed a little more before they moved on.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that? The reason they're moving on to something new is they're trying to get things dialed. Even if it's just a small change, the principle behind the change should be to try and get things dialed.

As for you being stoked on your 2003 bike, you're a perfect example of someone who shouldn't give a shit about all the changes. You're out there having fun on your current bike and that's all that matters. When you need to replace something, there should be a plethora of good used parts available.

**pfluffenmeister** · 06-08-2015, 09:21 PM

Personally, I'm holding out for a completely new measurement system.

Neither metric nor English standard units will do for me ...

**plugboots** · 06-08-2015, 09:25 PM

I love changes for the better. (I have a belt drive SS.) But right now, this wheel size thing is bullshit.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 06-08-2015, 10:27 PM

And I have QR's on my steal hardtail

You're still a dick, though, Highway Star.

**54-46** · 06-09-2015, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by alewi11

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that? The reason they're moving on to something new is they're trying to get things dialed. Even if it's just a small change, the principle behind the change should be to try and get things dialed.

This is true in a lot of cases - seems like incremental changes to try to dial stuff in are good. Tubeless tires (eventually, it worked out and choices improved), drop posts, clutch ders, 1-ring fronts, etc.

I just don't know about things over the years like:
-rapid rise dérailleurs
-dual control shifters
-Seemingly a dozen different bottom bracket standards and BCDs for rings
-more quickly dropping support for older standards/equipment.
- 11 speed rear/wider spacing ("this one goes to 11.") Who really wants expensive consumable parts like cassettes?

I'm sure there are other examples of good and bad changes, and innovation that led to dead ends.

Just seems like a lot of marketing and merchandising.

A Santa Cruz Superlight was $2000-$2200 in 2000 with a SID/XT level parts. Now, an SLX bike is $2K, and and XT bike is over $3500 (some up around $5K).

That's a big price jump. Should only be $2700-2800 in 2025 for a similar level bike based on inflation rate.

**ghosthop** · 06-09-2015, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by alewi11

If the bike industry wasn't pushing for increasing revenue, that's what we'd still be riding.

fify. dude, watch out for the purple koolaid, I heard that stuff does more than make you spout bullshit on the internet

my f/s 27.5+ improved my bike skillz so much I think I'll take a second in carbon. my $$'s are going towards innovation

**alewi11** · 06-09-2015, 02:31 AM

Ghosthop, it's people like you I just don't understand. Are you bitter that bike prices go up every year? Or are you bitter that a corporation is making money?

If it's prices you're worried about, I would argue that a $2k bike now is much nicer than a $2k bike 10 years ago. And it'll probably be the same scenario 10 years from now. If you dont feel like a f/s carbon 27.5+ is necessary, you don't have to buy one.

If you're just angry that a corporation is trying to make a profit, I hate to break it to you but that how the world works. However, you are still welcome to make your bikes by hand. That way you don't have to support the evil corporation.

**bean** · 06-09-2015, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by 54-46

A Santa Cruz Superlight was $2000-$2200 in 2000 with a SID/XT level parts. Now, an SLX bike is $2K, and and XT bike is over $3500 (some up around $5K).

I bitch about all the new "standards" as much as anyone else - especially 650B - but that's not really a fair comparison. 2015 SLX is so much better than 2000 XT it's ridiculous.

**Tech Tonics** · 06-09-2015, 07:07 AM

I don't get the point of bitching about wheel sizes, or any evolving technology. Do you guys really have so much time on your hands that you sit around being mad at "the bike industry" for coming up with new shit? You should ride more. Or maybe find a more challenging career.

I love my 27.5. I loved my 29er and my 26" too. Is there a clear improvement between my 2015 5910c and my 2008 575? Yes, of course.

I don't get the "but most riders wont benefit from 27.5/pikes/XT brakes/carbon frames so im just so mad about it!!!"

Fucking curmudgeons. Ride the bike YOU like and can afford and shut the fuck up about it.

**54-46** · 06-09-2015, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bean

I bitch about all the new "standards" as much as anyone else - especially 650B - but that's not really a fair comparison. 2015 SLX is so much better than 2000 XT it's ridiculous.

I was comparing XT to XT, but that's a fair point to compare price to price, as opposed to gruppo to gruppo. But then - how are guys who bragged about having XT supposed to be able to brag about their equipment if they can only afford SLX?

Kidding and brakes aside, 2015 SLX is not noticeably better than 2000 XT IME. Shifting is similar if you compare 3x10 to 3x10 (like my buddy's Trek Fuel EX8). BB/crankset is a wash for guys my size (170#s) who ride XC. (I ran out of rings and got an outboard bearing crankset and it doesn't feel stiffer)

Maybe I'm an insensitive retro-grouch who can't tell the difference. Guess I need to get out more.

**54-46** · 06-09-2015, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Tech Tonics

I don't get the point of bitching about wheel sizes, or any evolving technology. Do you guys really have so much time on your hands that you sit around being mad at "the bike industry" for coming up with new shit? You should ride more. Or maybe find a more challenging career.

I love my 27.5. I loved my 29er and my 26" too. Is there a clear improvement between my 2015 5910c and my 2008 575? Yes, of course.

I don't get the "but most riders wont benefit from 27.5/pikes/XT brakes/carbon frames so im just so mad about it!!!"

Fucking curmudgeons. Ride the bike YOU like and can afford and shut the fuck up about it.

Some of us aren't really bitching. The thread is a chance to hash out which stuff matters and which stuff doesn't. Shit - I'd love to have more reasons to tell my wife I need a Ripley.

**Lindahl** · 06-09-2015, 07:43 AM

Meh, my old 26s are still fun as shit. Even with everyone moved on to 275s, I'm still faster than some and slower than others. 275s didn't change that at all. The whole marketing thing is funny - if you need a chart to sell the benefits, its a lateral move. I don't get the upgrade bug, especially with many of my friends moving to SB5/6cs from SB66s. I do snicker a little when they're out of commission on their 5k bike because it has to go to the shop. Two bikes are definitely better than one.

The only improvement I really see is the wider range cassettes (oneup) and sram 11-speed. That, I can get on board with, and plan to, once my current cassette is done.

**Damian Sanders** · 06-09-2015, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by 54-46

This is true in a lot of cases - seems like incremental changes to try to dial stuff in are good. Tubeless tires (eventually, it worked out and choices improved), drop posts, clutch ders, 1-ring fronts, etc.

I just don't know about things over the years like:
-rapid rise dérailleurs
-dual control shifters
-Seemingly a dozen different bottom bracket standards and BCDs for rings
-more quickly dropping support for older standards/equipment.
- 11 speed rear/wider spacing ("this one goes to 11.") Who really wants expensive consumable parts like cassettes?

I'm sure there are other examples of good and bad changes, and innovation that led to dead ends.

Just seems like a lot of marketing and merchandising.

A Santa Cruz Superlight was $2000-$2200 in 2000 with a SID/XT level parts. Now, an SLX bike is $2K, and and XT bike is over $3500 (some up around $5K).

That's a big price jump. Should only be $2700-2800 in 2025 for a similar level bike based on inflation rate.

Exactly. My current bike has air suspension, tubeless system setup (WTB TCS), hollow 2-piece cranks, disc brakes, bolt on axles, carbon bars, a hollow pin chain, clipless pedals and a tapered headtube. All proven new tech.

I also just upgraded to 9-speed, I felt it was time to make the jump. My brakes are from the early 2000's - xt & saint. And my bolt on axles are actually 20mm & 135x10 thru, same as I've been running for 15 years.

**bean** · 06-09-2015, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Tech Tonics

I don't get the point of bitching about wheel sizes, or any evolving technology. Do you guys really have so much time on your hands that you sit around being mad at "the bike industry" for coming up with new shit? You should ride more. Or maybe find a more challenging career.

I don't get the point of bitching about what other people are bitching about. Do you really have so much time on your hands that you sit around being mad at "the people on the internets" for bitching about the bike industry? You should ride more. Or maybe find a more challenging career.