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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    We had to skip the town fireworks. He "couldn't handle it".
    I had a boss who could not watch combat footage, and would get white knuckled watching war movies.


    Over 22 veterans commit suicide everyday, I read four notes yesterday. All we can do is come up with some shitty ass powerpoints to try and fight it.


    I don't think being bombed counts as combat. Its gotta be a two way street. Highly stressful, yes, but not combat. Manning an anti-air gun while you are getting bombed would be combat.

  2. #227
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    That was a great documentary KQ.

    I think most of us were heavily influenced by vietnam vets growing up, I certainly was.

    Hard to believe we spent 10 yrs in iraq and afghanistan repeating the same story. Whoever said history repeats itself wsnt kidding. And whoever in this thread said he apologizes to every vietnamese he meets wasnt either.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmadaBC View Post
    makes you wonder what else they have laying around they forgot about.
    I'm sure this is purely an isolated incident that's not at all indicative of nearly incomprehensible amounts of systemic waste and graft perpetuated by DOD and our multitude of spy agencies with rubber-stamped secret budgets.



  4. #229
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    I think it's fair to define "in combat" as related to inducing PTSD to mean any amount of time that you have a realistic possibility to die. Walking down the road or jungle on patrol works. Incoming mortar shell and sniper fire counts.

    I worked with a guy who had been at the front in Korea. I walked up from behind and tapped him on the shoulder to ask a question and he spun and grabbed me with a fear in his eyes. Never did that again. Funny, we worked in a print shop on a machine slicing big rolls of paper into theater tickets and such. Guess the machine wasn't properly grounded and if you got too close to the wrong spot and bolt of static electricity would jump out a foot and zap you good. He wasn't bothered by it at all and I better understood PTSD by getting a small dose.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    That was a great documentary KQ.

    I think most of us were heavily influenced by vietnam vets growing up, I certainly was.

    Hard to believe we spent 10 yrs in iraq and afghanistan repeating the same story. Whoever said history repeats itself wsnt kidding. And whoever in this thread said he apologizes to every vietnamese he meets wasnt either.
    It is and it isn't.

    First Afghanistan and Iraq are two totally different wars in terms of why we went, to lump them together is a disservice. We went to Iraq for the same reason we went to Vietnam just in reverse, in this case we were trying to use domino theory instead of prevent it.

    Second the tactics employed are a direct result of our experience in Vietnam and in almost no way are similar. We pretty much did the exact opposite of Vietnam, to some extent to similar results though so........

    Third the larger reasons why we went and the limitation of such actions are similar.

    They way I'd put it is this, our tactics have changed, we fucking damn well learned the lessons in terms of how one fights on the ground. What we didn't learn is how we get into such things and our limitations in terms of what we can accomplish blowing shit up. What we sure as fuck didn't learn is you can blame GWB, Nixon of LBJ but the truth is the buck stops here, this is our fault, the voters not the politicians are the solution to such foreign endeavors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm sure this is purely an isolated incident that's not at all indicative of nearly incomprehensible amounts of systemic waste and graft perpetuated by DOD and our multitude of spy agencies with rubber-stamped secret budgets.


    In other news today, scientists at Los Alamos National Resarch Lab have discovered a fully functional fusion reactor in the garages crawl space.

    "It was the 80's man, we were doing alot of crazy shit related to the Cold War and well Thriller had just dropped and Bill in accounting had just scored some crazy good coke. We've moved the reactor to make space for a supercooled zero friction dance floor and just fucking forgot about it"
    You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chaser?

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmadaBC View Post
    It is and it isn't.

    First Afghanistan and Iraq are two totally different wars in terms of why we went, to lump them together is a disservice. We went to Iraq for the same reason we went to Vietnam just in reverse, in this case we were trying to use domino theory instead of prevent it.

    Second the tactics employed are a direct result of our experience in Vietnam and in almost no way are similar. We pretty much did the exact opposite of Vietnam, to some extent to similar results though so........

    Third the larger reasons why we went and the limitation of such actions are similar.

    They way I'd put it is this, our tactics have changed, we fucking damn well learned the lessons in terms of how one fights on the ground. What we didn't learn is how we get into such things and our limitations in terms of what we can accomplish blowing shit up. What we sure as fuck didn't learn is you can blame GWB, Nixon of LBJ but the truth is the buck stops here, this is our fault, the voters not the politicians are the solution to such foreign endeavors.



    In other news today, scientists at Los Alamos National Resarch Lab have discovered a fully functional fusion reactor in the garages crawl space.

    "It was the 80's man, we were doing alot of crazy shit related to the Cold War and well Thriller had just dropped and Bill in accounting had just scored some crazy good coke. We've moved the reactor to make space for a supercooled zero friction dance floor and just fucking forgot about it"

    The tactic of staying home and keeping the arms and legs of our soldiers attached is what I'm talking about.

    I've probably read as much as anyone can on Vietnam, and in the 80's was obsessed with it for a time, probably like you. BUt now I regularly meet with vets who are dieing from agent orange, even 35 yrs later, people that never even went to Vietnam but loaded the stuff up n Louisiana. Fucking sad, we wiped our asses with them like we did those down rage from atomic testing in the 40's and 50's,mregular folk, not the country club, Stanford programming wizards, and we did the same in Iraq withnIED's and ptsd.

    My swim coach (club), was one of the first recon Marines to land inDa Nang 1965, he too would somersault you if you came up from behind him, just a great generation of Americans who are beginning to age.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    [n]ow I regularly meet with vets who are dieing from agent orange, even 35 yrs later, people that never even went to Vietnam but loaded the stuff up n Louisiana. Fucking sad, we wiped our asses with them like we did those down rage from atomic testing in the 40's and 50's
    Good friend's mother worked on the Manhattan Project. She died of cancer. Had it in every organ of her body. Could be coincidence but maybe not.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    The tactic of staying home is what I'm talking about.
    Unfortunately this is not a viable strategy for national security in the 21st century. The large oceans that kept us relatively insulated from outside threats in the 19th and 20th century are no longer the barriers they wince were. As the last 25 years have shown, globalization has both empowered many of the world's poor, and enabled the planning, coordination and execution of crude, inexpensive, but deadly attacks across political and physical boarders.

    We need to maintain both the ability and willingness to seek out, dominate, and destroy those who intend to attack the American Way of Life. The last 13.5 years, highlighted by the fall of the Taliban in 2001 and killing of OBL on May 1st, 2011 reinforced to the world the mentality displayed on August 6th and 9th 1945, that the United States will stop at no limit to destroy those who attack us.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Unfortunately this is not a viable strategy for national security in the 21st century. The large oceans that kept us relatively insulated from outside threats in the 19th and 20th century are no longer the barriers they wince were. As the last 25 years have shown, globalization has both empowered many of the world's poor, and enabled the planning, coordination and execution of crude, inexpensive, but deadly attacks across political and physical boarders.

    We need to maintain both the ability and willingness to seek out, dominate, and destroy those who intend to attack the American Way of Life. The last 13.5 years, highlighted by the fall of the Taliban in 2001 and killing of OBL on May 1st, 2011 reinforced to the world the mentality displayed on August 6th and 9th 1945, that the United States will stop at no limit to destroy those who attack us.
    As long as the "American Way of Life" requires plundering and exploiting the rest of the planet to maintain an immoral state of decadent privilege, you better be willing to fight all those uppity poor folk who don't know their place.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    As long as the "American Way of Life" requires plundering and exploiting the rest of the planet to maintain an immoral state of decadent privilege, you better be willing to fight all those uppity poor folk who don't know their place.
    The "American way of life" is really just America's turn at this way of life.

    Britain, France, Spain etc. So many powers have had the chance to go worldwide as superpowers at one time or another. And in the end they all find that being an Empire is a pain in the ass and over the long run the people who must support and die for that empire get sick of it, the system rots from within and after a while the Nation becomes comfortable being a world player rather than a superpower.

    This has been Americas turn.

    Many people in the world were unaware or disconnected and happy to live in their quiet little place like they had for hundreds or thousands of years. No longer. Now they all want to live the life of consumerism like they see on their Cellphones etc. They want to live the Dream.

    Well this planet will support a % of the population living at the level of the average American or European. It will not support the entire population living anywhere near that level unless we completely trash the place out in another 100 years, which is the course we are presently on.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    I think it's fair to define "in combat" as related to inducing PTSD to mean any amount of time that you have a realistic possibility to die. Walking down the road or jungle on patrol works. Incoming mortar shell and sniper fire counts.

    I worked with a guy who had been at the front in Korea. I walked up from behind and tapped him on the shoulder to ask a question and he spun and grabbed me with a fear in his eyes. Never did that again. Funny, we worked in a print shop on a machine slicing big rolls of paper into theater tickets and such. Guess the machine wasn't properly grounded and if you got too close to the wrong spot and bolt of static electricity would jump out a foot and zap you good. He wasn't bothered by it at all and I better understood PTSD by getting a small dose.
    how much crack do you need to smoke to equate ptsd w/ a static electricity or small jolt of amperage?
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
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  12. #237
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    Charlie does not surf
    But he is in the trees
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    how much crack do you need to smoke to equate ptsd w/ a static electricity or small jolt of amperage?
    Yeah I was scratching my head a bit on that one too.

  14. #239
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    magic black orb says
    more than an eight ball
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
    Yeah I was scratching my head a bit on that one too.
    Read again. PTSD not correlated to jolt....
    Education must be the answer, we've tried ignorance and it doesn't work!

  16. #241
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    Working in constant fear of being harmed and having no control of when or where the zap might strike had me in a constant state of unease. Ramp that up by a factor of 1000 and it gave me a sense of the cause of PTSD. Even as a 19 year old I was able to feel the rain I guess.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  17. #242
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    you should totally sue then for causing your smoke crack then post syndrumsz
    all givs sum
    sum gave all
    givin gratitude for big steves bro and many others is pretty easy for me
    that and 40 years & red dawn taught me
    home turf matters
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  18. #243
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    I can smokes crack now?
    I see hydraulic turtles.

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    how much crack do you need to smoke to equate ptsd w/ a static electricity or small jolt of amperage?
    whoa - that is the most sane/comprehensible post I've ever read from SFB

  20. #245
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    Sue? Modern knee reaction. Not as many ambulance chasing lawyers then.We were tougher and would just suck it up and go on with life for minor bull shit
    Last edited by wooley12; 05-06-2015 at 11:49 AM.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    how much crack do you need to smoke to equate ptsd w/ a static electricity or small jolt of amperage?
    I got hit by lightning a few years ago (probably, not certain since I was on my own) and I've had some strange panic attack like events when I hear thunder. Not all the time but it's a big change from before and I have no control over it. Like suddenly white knuckled while driving through a storm when I know I'm safe. Strange stuff.

    I don't equate them, but it gave me much more sympathy for ptsd and the like. The only people I knew who may have been affected never talked about it so I didn't have much exposure. Just a small look into how the brain can get rewired changed a lot.

  22. #247
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    Its Post Traumatic Stress - not Post Combat Stress.

    Lots of shit can cause it. I would compare static electricity to getting struck by lightning as I would compare getting shot at with paintballs to watching an explosion make your friend disappear 10 feet in front of you.

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Its Post Traumatic Stress - not Post Combat Stress.

    Lots of shit can cause it.
    Case in point, PTSD is common in drone pilots:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us...t-do.html?_r=0
    http://www.salon.com/2015/03/06/a_ch...mbers_partner/

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by XavierD View Post
    Its Post Traumatic Stress - not Post Comat Stress.

    Lots of shit can cause it. I would compare static electricity to getting struck by lightning as I would compare getting shot at with paintballs to watching an explosion make your friend disappear 10 feet in front of you.
    Why don't you just say you have no fucking clue but need to say something.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  25. #250
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    Anyone who thinks non-combatants can't suffer from PTSD didn't see the 60 minutes segment on the children of Gaza and Israel (Yeah, I know only people old enough to have served in Vietnam or older watch 60 minutes). The difference, though, is that among combatants the biggest source of stress appears to be killing other people, not being shot at, wounded, or having friends killed, not that those things don't matter. And it probably depends on the mind set of the soldier--draftee vs ordinary recruit vs guy who wanted to be a Seal since he was 2 vs psychopath.

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