STH2 VS Pivot/FKS

[Breomonkey]

No. Rear row of screws is identical, front row is further forward (65 instead of 30 mm)

Any idea if the boot toe lands in the same place if a ski is mounted with Wardens/STH using the same back holes? From one template it looks like it might be the same. A quick reference to a jig should tell the story. I'm hoping the wardens take the toe position forward, but it doesn't seem likely.

[Knut]

Yes, toe line should be located at exactly the same position relative to those two back holes for all bindings across the product line (i.e. 15mm in front of the rear hole pair)

[Kied]

I ski both the STH2 16 and FKS 18... I'd say performance wise they're pretty close.

Personally, I think the FKS is going to be the more durable, since it is mostly all metal, regardless of the moon issue. I've never broken one (knock on wood). I do think the FKS/Pivot has a smoother release, and I like the shorter mounting distance over the STH2, but it's pretty negligible.

IMO I also like the weight advantage of the STH2 over the FKS, but it's also a minor thing. Basically, they're six of one, half dozen of another.

I usually go with whichever I can get the best deal on.

[skimaxpower]

One big advantage of the Salomon bindings over Pivot/FKS is ease of brake swapping.

Changing between narrow and wide brakes on STH and STH2 is much easier and cheaper than doing the same on Pivots.

[skimaxpower]

916s for life

For real. It also permits you to strap and load your poles+skis like a heli boss.

[meina222]

I broke the toe piece of my FKS 14 earlier this winter in a forceful double ejection fall. Replaced with STH2. My knees were intact. Two days later (undoubtedly bad chagnce, but who knows, maybe there's a statistical bias here) my ACL was torn when the STH2s did not release in an awkward right ski hook/fall. No doubt in my mind the FKS heel would have released. I would avoid riding another alpine binding and start hoarding FKS family bindings like others here (I ride at din 9, appropriate for my 220lbs body weight + clothing and backpack weight and have bindings mounted and tested in trusted shops so the STH2 not releasing was not a case of cranked up din).

p.s. Rossignol US repaired my toe for no fee. Good customer service is another reason (which pales to the safety of the binding itself) to stick w Rossi.

[CaliBrit]

I broke the toe piece of my FKS 14 earlier this winter in a forceful double ejection fall. Replaced with STH2. My knees were intact. Two days later (undoubtedly bad chagnce, but who knows, maybe there's a statistical bias here) my ACL was torn when the STH2s did not release in an awkward right ski hook/fall. No doubt in my mind the FKS heel would have released. I would avoid riding another alpine binding and start hoarding FKS family bindings like others here (I ride at din 9, appropriate for my 220lbs body weight + clothing and backpack weight and have bindings mounted and tested in trusted shops so the STH2 not releasing was not a case of cranked up din).

p.s. Rossignol US repaired my toe for no fee. Good customer service is another reason (which pales to the safety of the binding itself) to stick w Rossi.

This is the problem with forums in a nutshell. Yep. For certain the fks would have been perfect. Sure.

[whyturn]

FKS has beat travel in variable conditions and the low short mount pattern is great. Yes they are tricky at times but so is skiing so get over it

[XavierD]

12345678

[1000-oaks]

No doubt in my mind the FKS heel would have released.

Interesting, considering both the FKS and the STH2 heels only release vertically, and if both were set to the same DIN, would require exactly the same amount of force to release.* Perhaps the color played a role.


* If you were talking about retention instead of release, and said the FKS has greater elasticity and would not have released, the argument could have some merit.

[meina222]

"This is the problem with forums in a nutshell". Sure, dude. Sharing my experience is an example of a problem. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

On a more serious note - to the "scientists" and "experts" on binding release characteristics - sure, it's pure speculation whether the injury would have occurred with an FKS in the same scenario. Sharing my experience here, should not be taken as a scientifically rigorous claim on the safety or release characteristics of FKS vs STH (I didn't know this disclaimer was needed, but here it is, it's an effing forum after all, not a research conference). I shared my experience and it happens to be relevant to the topic. I also did admit that bad luck likely played a role here. With all that said though, after years of FKS use, I had a lot of confidence in when the bindings would release vs when not. Can't say the same the about STH2 after my injury and a couple of close calls the day before. At the indicated din 9 (which could be off from the real release din) they felt like bear trap. I'd have better peace of mind with the FKS. FYI, I'll probably keep the STH2 after having the release double checked (they are definitely significantly better in one measurable aspect - ease of entry on steep/sketchy platforms).

[Mustonen]

Love the fks, it's what I have mounted to all of my skis, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I got some STH2 a while ago, and just did not dig the way they felt.

If I had a binding I had to fiddle with only half as much, I'd have like...several minutes of my life back. I'm a little puzzled by that "downside." I never considered them fiddly, at least, not day to day. I've had them break, and getting them apart and putting them back together with scavenged parts can be an adventure, but not a serious time suck. I have no idea how that particular experience might differ on STH2....

It all comes down to snow feel and skiability. I'm sure most of it is in my head, but fks are noticeably better for me. I'd fiddle a shit-ton and replace all my moon pieces annually if I had to. As long as reliability and safety are equal, the other stuff isn't significant enough to matter.

[undertow2]

This is the problem with forums in a nutshell. Yep. For certain the fks would have been perfect. Sure.

Out fucking standing... This is signature worthy...!

You pretty much have the best ski athletes both rocking the FKS and STH and yet folks on here have a multiple compound fracture because they use binding X and if they had been on binding Y it would never have happened... It is lucky Seth never had a spill like those on this forum as I am sure he would be laid up in a hospital bed for life...

[undertow2]

"This is the problem with forums in a nutshell". Sure, dude. Sharing my experience is an example of a problem. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

On a more serious note - to the "scientists" and "experts" on binding release characteristics - sure, it's pure speculation whether the injury would have occurred with an FKS in the same scenario. Sharing my experience here, should not be taken as a scientifically rigorous claim on the safety or release characteristics of FKS vs STH (I didn't know this disclaimer was needed, but here it is, it's an effing forum after all, not a research conference). I shared my experience and it happens to be relevant to the topic. I also did admit that bad luck likely played a role here. With all that said though, after years of FKS use, I had a lot of confidence in when the bindings would release vs when not. Can't say the same the about STH2 after my injury and a couple of close calls the day before. At the indicated din 9 (which could be off from the real release din) they felt like bear trap. I'd have better peace of mind with the FKS. FYI, I'll probably keep the STH2 after having the release double checked (they are definitely significantly better in one measurable aspect - ease of entry on steep/sketchy platforms).

Why not...? That is what you did...! From reading your post the only reason why you got hurt was due to the fact that you were on STHs...

And I must admit I have FKS 18 and 14s along with STH 16s and I have never felt an on the snow difference... Skis yes... Bindings no...

[meina222]

Yep. The binding did not release, where I felt it should have released. Any other questions?

Why not...? That is what you did...! From reading your post the only reason why you got hurt was due to the fact that you were on STHs...

And I must admit I have FKS 18 and 14s along with STH 16s and I have never felt an on the snow difference... Skis yes... Bindings no...

[çayzi]

Any changes implemented in sth2 for 2015/16 version compare to 2014 (13din, green color).

I have really good price on sth2 13, old 2014 model.

[Beyond]

Vote for the Pivots; they give me noticeably greater elasticity and rebound, which can be key in no fall zones or racing, and I like the lateral precision. IMO the "solid click" business is perceptual rather than functional. Cannot speak to breakage because I've never had a FKS design break, although I've had several Sollies fracture and one never released when I needed it to. But don't do big air, so maybe that's an issue.

[whyturn]

Lets do a poll and then you have to buy and use the winner. TR required

[ZomblibulaX]

Skied Salomon for years till their NA race program got axed, then moved to FKS because they were cheap and easy to find used.
My $0.02:

-Cracked half moons are generally caused by over-torquing while mounting. Pretty easy to rectify that one.
-I've never had a toe wing AFD snap on a pair of FKS 155/185/180. Same can not be said for Driver toes (or FKS 140/120/etc.)
-Both bindings develop play in the heel after time, but IME, it has very little effect on the FKS heel when clicked in. Salomon does start to feel sloppy after time (usually a long time), mostly noticeable on hardpack. I actually have skied the same ski back-to-back 920's to FKS155's(albeit one day apart), and it was very noticeable. I thought the ski was clapped out, but it was just the solly's.
-FKS brakes are still bullshit. Its just stupid they didn't address that one glaring issue before they re-released them a few years ago.
-I run FKS at 13 and have absolutely no prerelease issues whatsoever. I run my solly's between 14-17 and sometimes its not enough. And I'm not that badass.
-I still have plenty of both in my quiver because they are both excellent bindings.(Only one STH2 though, FWIW.)

[capulin overdrive]

Folks can argue till the cows come home, I'm convinced the Looks are safer and don't hurt as much during a release.

[Beder]

I don't understand the question.

Oh hey

[eskido]

Oh hey

XD for the win

[undertow2]

XD for the win

How can you say that...? Look how steezy those blue STH 14s look with those Dynastars...