Broken Marker Barons [repost from epic-ski]

[gotamator]

Hey there !

I am seeking advice on what the heck is wrong with my Barons. What has gone wrong and how do I set them up right. I've posted a similar thread on epicski, but haven't got any replies so far.. Anyways, since it's my first post on this forum, I am unable to post pics, so I may reedit the post later, when I have at least few posts.

I'll start with the fact that I bought Barons back in 2013, used them in 2013/2014 seasons with no obvious problems. They were mounted on Volkl Gotamas 2014 by the best ski service around. The dude really knows what he's doing. I had him mount the bindings on skis, and adjust them to be used with Scarpa Mobe boots. Note that these are boots with AT soles. This year I went to my first skiing vacation back in January. It was one week long trip. During my last day on that trip I fell few times with no obvious reason, but since it was my last day, I thought that it must have been that I was tired. However, later that day (when I was packing up my skis), I noticed that one of the 'supports' on which heel
piece attaches to the binding plate is broken.

Well, I've started to look it up in the Internet and I've found two similar cases that happened to someone on TGR forums. Except for their heel pieces were literally torn off the plate, and these people ended up on a ground. One stated that he broke something. Anyways, I wrote to the local dealer, and they asked me to send them those heel pieces, and they replaced them with a new set of heel pieces (from EPF version). Because I was going on my second skiing trip, I took my skis, a set of new heel pieces, and went on a vacation. I figured that despite the fact that Barons are expected to be compatible (after adjustments) with AT boots, maybe they did not cope well with these particular boots. Also, it was supposed to be skiing 90% on groomed trails, so I decided to take another pair of boots, this time my old, proven Fischer Soma F8000. Some service at the ski resort mounted my heel pieces, adjusted sole length and afd plate. I checked that it fitted description found on this forum. Then I had 3 days without problem, but THEN suddenly one of the skis kept releasing everytime I tried to edge. So I fell down like 9 times before I made it down the slope, where I checked out the binding, and it turned out that the very same thing broke again.

This time also the second support was fractured. I ended up having to rent skis for the rest of the trip. Now, local distributor asked me to rent them my skis (send it over) so that they can try to find what's wrong. However, I planned to go on another skiing trip this Saturday, so they've sent me another heelpiece. I decided to try to mount it MYSELF according to tips found on these forum, check everything myself. So I started to adjust bindings, starting from the heel piece that 'survived':

1. Moved AFD plate as far back in tour mode as possible,
2. Adjusted sole length.
3. Readjusted AFD plate so that I can put my credit card between the plate and a boot sole (with some force).
4. Made sure that sole length is still OK.

At this point I had one binding set up. Then I took my second binding, and removed broken heel piece. And... I've noticed that the metal 'rail' that the whole heel piece moves on is kind of broken too, namely the 'rail' or 'guide' that the heel piece adjustment screw is moving on is kind of malformed

Now I'm wondering if it makes any sense to mount that heelpiece there, as it will very likely break again. Or am I wrong ? Now I'm pissed off as I am without skis again. I've never had bindings that would make that much trouble. At this point I would gladly throw those damn binding to the thrash can, but I don't want to spend another bunch of bucks on another pair of bindings. I've never had bindings that did not survive the skis that they're mounted on..

[skimaxpower]

Sound a bit like user error to me. Are you sure that the binding frame is correctly mounted on the heel plate when you engage lever into downhill mode?

[gotamator]

Yeah, I am pretty sure everything was mounted OK both times. Bindings were mounted by the most renown ski technician in the region. That guy had tons of cases that were considered 'unfixable'. Probability of him making an error is very, very low. Yet damn heel piece broke. The second heel piece was mounted by some random ski service, but I did check everything, and everything seemed to work as intended. I've checked it couple of times already, and yes, I am sure that the binding frame is correctly mounted on the heel plate.

I had many bindings before, never ever was I that careful with bindings, and these are just huge disappointment

[strawjack]

Dear jong,

Tech bindings break.

Things you have said do not make sense.

"most renown ski technician in the region" ....in Miami they still suck balls.

Go to a real shop in the mountains and your problems will be solved.

[gotamator]

strawJack,

What exactly does not make sense in your opinion ?

Also, I'm not sure why do you think that you'll only find a 'real shop' in the mountains ? I do know that this particular guy is the best, and he definitely does not suck (at least not at servicing skis/bindings). I do understand, that people make mistakes, but nothing wrong was noticed by the second ski service either. Btw. the other one was in the mountains..

I was hoping for some more constructive answers..

[JayPowHound]

[skimaxpower]

Sound a bit like user error to me.

I wasn't blaming your ski tech. It sounds like you do not know how to use the bindings you keep breaking.

[gotamator]

I should be able to post some pics later today.

[gotamator]

skimaxpower:

If it is my fault, then my question is : what do I do wrong with the bindings ? It's not a rocket science to use ski bindings ! And really, if I need a PhD to ski on Barons, then yes, these are not for me.

I am still unable to post pictures (due to some silly restrictions on TGR Forum), yet you can see all the pics at:

tinyurl. com/pyd2247

[skimaxpower]

PIcs help, thanks. That looks like Manufacturer's defect - which wouldn't explain why it's happened to you twice.

In any case warranty is your best option, which is a slow and obnoxious route. The faster and more expensive route is to buy new bindings. The Marker Duke uses the same hole pattern and uses metal instead of plastic for the piece that you managed to break.

[jono]

OP appears to answer his own question on epicski: if the rails are misshapen (as he noted there) such that they spread the plastic open as the binding moves fore-aft then the heel piece should be expected to keep breaking. Were the rails replaced, or just the heel piece?

[gotamator]

Jono,

It's not that obvious, as the 'rail' (or screw guide) looked OK when original heel piece was taken off (after it broke). So it had to be damaged when I was using replaced piece. It has to be some weird coincidence, I cannot explain it any other way

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Is a credit card considered an accurate gauge for setting the AFD height? Seems a lot thicker than the paper gauge Marker includes with the bindings. Not saying this has anything to do with the OPs problem but when I read that in one of his posts, it struck me as a bit off.

[1000-oaks]

Jono,

It's not that obvious, as the 'rail' (or screw guide) looked OK when original heel piece was taken off (after it broke). So it had to be damaged when I was using replaced piece. It has to be some weird coincidence, I cannot explain it any other way

The spring-loaded forward-pressure screw would have ratcheted backwards down the rack as the heel broke and lifted a bit, scraping up the rack pretty good.

[gotamator]

MyNameIsAugustWest:
Hmm.. I didn't have any gauge in my box. Some people however suggested folded manual, which would be thicker (I think) than a creadit card.

1000oaks:
That makes sense I guess, since when the replacement heel piece broke (and I did not yet notice it), I kept trying going down the slope (and fell whenever I tried to edge), so the guide and the heel must have been working against each other.

Btw. here's another TGR thread that I mentioned:
tetongravity. com/forums/showthread.php/214627-Broken-Marker-Baron

[El Chupacabra]

Credit card is too thick, use the thinnest plastic card you can find - I use a plastic advertisement card that is the same size as a credit card, but much thinner. Also test vertical adjustment while pulling up on the boot toe.

I don't think vertical adjustment was what was causing your problems though.

[1000-oaks]

Set the AFD with a piece of paper, while pulling the top of the boot backwards (to make sure the toe is against the binding wings). Should be slight drag on the paper, but not tear. Marker includes a paper gauge with new bindings, but you can use any regular paper. And with a rockered AT sole, you're going to have small, concentrated points of contact, so a hair more paper drag than a DIN sole is fine.

[strawjack]

strawJack,

What exactly does not make sense in your opinion ?

Also, I'm not sure why do you think that you'll only find a 'real shop' in the mountains ? I do know that this particular guy is the best, and he definitely does not suck (at least not at servicing skis/bindings). I do understand, that people make mistakes, but nothing wrong was noticed by the second ski service either. Btw. the other one was in the mountains..

I was hoping for some more constructive answers..

You have no clue what you are doing and it's obvious by what you are typing...'moving the afd as far back in tour mode...no sense right there...I could go on. It's not meant to be a dis, but wtf, get someone who is indemnified (TRAINED) and has real experience with bindings, specifically those AT and get it done.

And yeah, city flatlander shops suck. There a slight chance you could find a guy who has real experience, but most likely he was trained by the other guy who is clueless.

Would you have brain surgery in east bumfuck hospital that has performed 3 in the last decade or at Mass General?

[adrenalated]

I've seen several pairs of Barons break in that manner. It's not uncommon.

Warranty the bindings, sell them, and buy Dukes. As mentioned, that part is metal on the Duke vs. plastic on the Baron.

[whyturn]

^^^^^^^This!!! Plastic breaks

[gotamator]

strawjack:
I'm not sure why you keep saying that the technician I'm going to is untrained. Based on what ? You have no knowledge about who that dude might be, what does he know, what experience does he have.

Despite technican issues, you keep telling me that I do not know what I'm doing, but I am here to learn as well. So here I am, asking you about scpecifics: what do I do wrong. Please, enlighten me. Never had a binding that would require me to spend month of my time looking for the 'right' technician at the end of a world.

adrenalated:

Thanks. I'm going to try doing exactly that. I have literally no trust in these bindings anymore.

[strawjack]

I'm basing this on the fact that you are here on tgr asking for help. You wouldn't be here if your shop had given you the answers and fixed your problem. They might even give you a quick overview on making adjustments between an AT boot and an alpine boot if you ask.

AT binders break...it's a pia.