Praxis Carbon Layups- Yay or Nay for Resort

**pfluffenmeister** · 03-09-2015, 12:55 PM

^^^ I would think the carbon layup for fresh, homogeneous snow; as the Praxis Carbon layup is essentially a Hybrid ski (glass & carbon).

**whyturn** · 03-09-2015, 01:02 PM

Have skied carbon and std GPO and carbon protest. For whatever reason protest in carbon was great and preffered the extra pop. GPO glass and carbon protest is my vote. maybe due to more soft snow and the float???

**EEC** · 03-31-2015, 06:19 AM

About to pick up some protests in the custom pre-order sale. Anybody else got input on the std. vs. carbon hybrid layup for the resort?

**Shu Shu** · 03-31-2015, 06:42 AM

I'm with whyturn. I have the carbon GPO and Protest. Carbon Protest is the way to go. It's just awesome. Super light floaty hover boards in the untracked but with enough mass and substance to track really well in cut up resort pow without getting kicked around. I really like my carbon GPO but for the mainly mixed conditions I ski them in now... if I had to do it again I would go glass in that model.

**Ted Striker** · 03-31-2015, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

So you prefer a Pure Carbon layup for touring, or a Hybrid layup with Carbon in it?
Praxis' "Carbon" layup seems to be more analogous to a DPS or PMGear "Hybrid" layup vs. the "Pure" Carbon layups that DPS/PMGear offer that are all Carbon.

Didn't see this until the thread got bumped.

To clarify, I guess I've never skied a "pure" carbon. I have had both all glass and hybrid-carbon lhasas, and I preferred all glass on chopped up and/or icy and/or cascade concrete groomers, and carbon-hybrid for anything resembling good snow. Same with Praxis (although, I haven't owned the exact same model in both).

Sometimes a light(ish) ski with some amount of carbon sheet(s) is too reactive for my taste. However, if the ski is never going to see a groomed run - like Protests, for instance - then it probably doesn't matter, and would come down to weight.

**pfluffenmeister** · 03-31-2015, 06:03 PM

^^^ agreed; hard pack / crud and pure carbon skis don't match well for me.

I've skied pure and hybrid variants of L120s and 191Fats.
I prefer the hybrids inbounds, where variable snow is inevitably found.
But the pures were nice for untracked snow (for energy transfer and lighter weight (both underfoot and on the shoulder)).

**Wetdog** · 04-03-2015, 02:04 AM

I've skied both glass and carbon Praxis skis and glass hybrid and pure carbon DPS skis. I like the carbon even at the resort. It has a bit more liveliness to it which makes the ski more responsive, some would call it reactive. It requires a bit more focus, but that is rewarded with more precise performance. Praxis Carbon skis are a hybrid glass and carbon layup Like DPS Hybrid skis, while DPS carbon skis are pure carbon.

**2wheeler** · 01-23-2017, 12:02 PM

I've been skiing a glass Protest for the past 4 years as my main backcountry driver. Love this ski. They're set up with a pair of Plum bindings that have worked very well to keep the weight down for touring. It is however getting near the end of life. I haven't found another ski that I want to dry for a BC specific ski, so I was thinking about trying the Protest in the UL layup. Does anyone have experience with the Protest UL? Comparisons to the regular or carbon layup?

Also considering the custom veneer top sheet if it will improve the dampness of the UL core. Anyone have experience with these options?

**eskido** · 01-23-2017, 12:36 PM

If it's purely a BC rig I think the UL is fine, specially for such a big stick but I'd steer towards a stiffer flex for sure. Personally I'll most likely go Carbon as opposed to UL for anything in the future but def can't complain about the UL build I've just decided I prefer the burlier layups and the carbon vs the UL doesn't give up much weight savings unless your a gram counter. But, like I said, with that big of a ski and if it's strictly BC specific, I would consider the UL.

**2wheeler** · 01-23-2017, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by eskido

If it's purely a BC rig I think the UL is fine, specially for such a big stick but I'd steer towards a stiffer flex for sure. Personally I'll most likely go Carbon as opposed to UL for anything in the future but def can't complain about the UL build I've just decided I prefer the burlier layups and the carbon vs the UL doesn't give up much weight savings unless your a gram counter. But, like I said, with that big of a ski and if it's strictly BC specific, I would consider the UL.

Thanks for the feedback... I'm looking a strictly BC rig. Have you skied the Praxis UL core then?

**SUPERIOR** · 01-23-2017, 03:59 PM

I've been skiing a carbon GPO here at Jackson Hole. The ski performs excellently in powder, well in soft bumps, and on groomers when needed.

However, I switched to my Belafontes after trying the GPOs in hard chop, pow moguls and dust on crust. They simply lack in variable snow, where a stiffer, heavier ski performs well.

**eskido** · 01-23-2017, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by 2wheeler

Thanks for the feedback... I'm looking a strictly BC rig. Have you skied the Praxis UL core then?

Yeah, sorry should've been more specific, my touring rig is a GPO UL core, I've used them a lot on resort to test skis/binders more than anything. I have Protests as my resort pow ski in carbon but used them quite a bit in BC and don't think you can understate how good of a BC ski that is (which you obviously already stated). I've said before I think the Praxis UL build is in my opinion better than just about anything you'll find but just not quite for me as i prefer something burlier. With that ski and being BC specific though, that's what I would do (UL). but to travel with or having any 20/80 duty I'd go carbon...

**grinch** · 01-23-2017, 08:49 PM

I have glass gpo for my hill daily driver and ul gpo for touring. As a touring ski I have zero issues with the ul core. It gets kicked around on the hill though. I'd say go for it if it's strictly for bc use. Flex is the same 4 flex on both gpo's and they feel the same in soft snow.
You may want to try the veneer topsheet as well. I just took my new exp's ,with birds eye maple veneer , to the hill to try them and I suspect the veneer adds a noticeable degree of dampness. I can't trace the added dampness to the veneer definitively, maybe it's the ski design, but I think the veneer helps. Seems durable as well . Banged then around a bit and a few pole stabs and all good, mind u that's one day. Love my glass protests for the hill(been on them more than anything else this year) and I'm dreaming of getting a skinny ul protest to touring
Oops missed the actual question. I'd skip the carbon for resort. Praxis glass layups are reasonable weights and I'm not a fan of carbon other than weight savings. Save the $'s unless it's a strictly bc ski

**spindrift** · 01-23-2017, 09:56 PM

For my not aggressive + mediocre two cents: MAP + Veneer FTW

The veneer shaves weight and it's poppy + smooth.

**SupreChicken** · 01-23-2017, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by spindrift

For my not aggressive + mediocre two cents: MAP + Veneer FTW

The veneer shaves weight and its poppy + smooth.

I agree. But then I have billy goats. If you have goats, get the map/Carbon with veneer. No goats? Go glass and bamboo veneer.

**Breomonkey** · 01-24-2017, 05:25 AM

My experience is with the following: gpo all glass, protest w/ carbon, and BC's in carbon/veneer. All mounted on the line since we love to debate that.

I've never fully got on with my gpo's. they just feel a bit locked and slow in the tails. I love the life and snap of the carbon in my BC's and Protest. My wife picked up a pair of protest in the glass layup but hasn't gotten out on them.

**Shu Shu** · 01-28-2017, 10:44 AM

I gotta say the Maple-Ash Core with Carbon and Veneer is a killer resort build. Maple-Ash is noticeably burlier than the MAP core, and the veneer and carbon off-set each other in terms of dampness and both add lots of pop.

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-28-2017, 04:38 PM

184 Maple/Ash (no carbon) Freerides (edit: with veneer top) kicked my butt. Much burlier than my MAP/carbon 182 GPOs.

I'm thinkin' I should have gone MAP or MAP/Carbon.

Y'all probably saw that I just sold my Freerides. I think I got too carried away in specifying them ;-)

I did the usual heavy tip/tail detune. I keep thinking that I should have laid on a 2 degree base bevel.

In the end, it got me to rethinking my quiver, and I made peace with the fact that that when the conditions firm up and I'm inbounds, I need softer tips/tails for the 25℅ of the time I'm in bumps - making peace with all of the miles on my knees and back ;-)

... Thom

**Shu Shu** · 01-28-2017, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I made peace with the fact that that when the conditions firm up and I'm inbounds, I need softer tips/tails for the 25℅ of the time I'm in bumps - making peace with all of the miles on my knees and back ;-)
... Thom

I hear ya, I still went flex 3 in this build and I don't find it harsh, just tracks better and is more stable in shit 3d snow. The pop is ridiculous on groomers.

**grinch** · 01-28-2017, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shu Shu

I gotta say the Maple-Ash Core with Carbon and Veneer is a killer resort build. Maple-Ash is noticeably burlier than the MAP core, and the veneer and carbon off-set each other in terms of dampness and both add lots of pop.

Interesting mix. Really makes sense. I surprised that I noticed the additional dampness and pop of the veneer. Wasn't a fan of the carbon other than to save weight for touring but that sounds like a good app with the veneer as well

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

184 Maple/Ash (no carbon) Freerides kicked my butt. Much burlier than my MAP/carbon 182 GPOs.

I'm thinkin' I should have gone MAP or MAP/Carbon.

Y'all probably saw that I just sold my Freerides. I think I got too carried away in specifying them ;-)

I did the usual heavy tip/tail detune. I keep thinking that I should have laid on a 2 degree base bevel.

In the end, it got me to rethinking my quiver, and I made peace with the fact that that when the conditions firm up and I'm inbounds, I need softer tips/tails for the 25℅ of the time I'm in bumps - making peace with all of the miles on my knees and back ;-)

... Thom

I'm with ya. I've gravitated to the praxis skis with a high degree of versatility(exp,yeti,bc, pj, gpo, protest). 9d8 wasn't my thing(carving groomers was fun, didn't care for it elsewhere).Maybe soften the tips tail like you say or I was thinking more tip rocker/taper and a just a little more tail rocker/taper on the freeride . I like the looks of the 108 wren

**east or bust** · 01-29-2017, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Shu Shu

I gotta say the Maple-Ash Core with Carbon and Veneer is a killer resort build. Maple-Ash is noticeably burlier than the MAP core, and the veneer and carbon off-set each other in terms of dampness and both add lots of pop.

Originally Posted by grinch

Interesting mix. Really makes sense. I surprised that I noticed the additional dampness and pop of the veneer. Wasn't a fan of the carbon other than to save weight for touring but that sounds like a good app with the veneer as well

I'm with ya. I've gravitated to the praxis skis with a high degree of versatility(exp,yeti,bc, pj, gpo, protest). 9d8 wasn't my thing(carving groomers was fun, didn't care for it elsewhere).Maybe soften the tips tail like you say or I was thinking more tip rocker/taper and a just a little more tail rocker/taper on the freeride . I like the looks of the 108 wren

Interesting thoughts^

How close do you guys think 3 flex, maple and ash, with the veneer and carbon is to the standard 4 flex MAP core? Is there really that must difference? The skis will be primarily skied in PA for the next season or two before I can get far, far away from this state, but will take them on ski trips to VT and maybe west if I like them enough. Really just looking for an all around do everything ski and was leaning towards the 9D8, now I'm second guessing. Right now it's either the 9D8 or PJ.

**grinch** · 01-29-2017, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by east or bust

Interesting thoughts^

How close do you guys think 3 flex, maple and ash, with the veneer and carbon is to the standard 4 flex MAP core? Is there really that must difference? The skis will be primarily skied in PA for the next season or two before I can get far, far away from this state, but will take them on ski trips to VT and maybe west if I like them enough. Really just looking for an all around do everything ski and was leaning towards the 9D8, now I'm second guessing. Right now it's either the 9D8 or PJ.

Even with the veneer on a 3 flex I find it definitely closer to a standard 3 flex than a 4. At 170lbs I like the 4 for pushing around the hill and even on my ul gpo touring ski with tlt6's or freeride touring boot.The 3 flex on my pj's keep them playful. The only time I wish they were maybe a 3.5 is in spring when I push them thru deeper slush. I like my exp's at 3 and with their camber for there intended purpose and the 4 flex ul gpo touring rig for their purpose. My plan is to add a 177 ul skinny concept veneer(105 waist) but I think I'd like it at 3.5 flex(not sure if that's possible)
9d8 vs pj is a preference thing. I think because my main skis are gpo and protest and they both rip a bigger stable turn but can also pivot on a dime I much prefer the pj. Had some fun days in the 9d8 carving thru different conditions but moguls, variable, pow, steeps, chop , spring fun the pj's are just super fun. I'm a directional skier. It's my all mt ski. Mostly on fatter skis so I'm always a bit apprehensive taking out those, being my skinny skis, but always go home impressed

**Shu Shu** · 01-31-2017, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by grinch

moguls, variable, pow, steeps, chop , spring fun the pj's are just super fun. I'm a directional skier. It's my all mt ski. Mostly on fatter skis so I'm always a bit apprehensive taking out those, being my skinny skis, but always go home impressed

x2 (my guiver is Concept GP0 and Protest) the PJ is such a capable ski it's killing my quiver. It retains much of the fun spirit of Keith's more pow oriented models, while still doing conventional directional skiing really well. (though I'm sure not as well as 9d8).

As for the Maple-Ash core with Carbon and Veneer, I would say the handlflex is really close to my 3.5 MAP Carbon GPO. Definitely hand flexes a little stiffer then my 3 MAP glass.

**east or bust** · 02-01-2017, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Shu Shu

x2 (my guiver is Concept GP0 and Protest) the PJ is such a capable ski it's killing my quiver. It retains much of the fun spirit of Keith's more pow oriented models, while still doing conventional directional skiing really well. (though I'm sure not as well as 9d8).

As for the Maple-Ash core with Carbon and Veneer, I would say the handlflex is really close to my 3.5 MAP Carbon GPO. Definitely hand flexes a little stiffer then my 3 MAP glass.

Cool, would you say the carbon offsets the weight gained by going with Maple-Ash?

**Shu Shu** · 02-01-2017, 09:30 PM

Not totally, but it helps for sure. All three materials work together super well to create an awesome feel that is really different than the MAP core skis I have. FWIW when I asked Keith about this combo he told me it was probably how he'd build it up for himself in this this model. At that point I was sold. For resort skiing I get the feeling that a MAP glass veneer combo would be really nice as well if not quite as burly in 3d shit snow. A maple ash veneer all glass would charge hardest but might be a little less in line with the point of a ski like this. And finally a MAP carbon could work as a nice 50/50 resort/touring.