Need a new ski mountaineering Ski-Mo pack.

[BrokeSomeRibs]

I'm having trouble finding a good ski mountaineering pack. A bunch of research hasn't really turned up anything credible. There was a similar thread here from almost 3 years ago, but none of the answers were really ideal and it's been a couple years, there's gotta be some better options on the market.

Here are my criteria:
-30 to 40L
-dedicated avy tool pocket (for shovel, probe and occasionally wet skins)
-side compression straps (both upper and lower, don't want fixed straps)
-TWO ice axe holders,modern design - not the loop
-CLEAN design, don't need an excess of straps and bullshit on the outside
-will compress well when not filled
-top loading, but has pocket that can be accessed while carrying skis
- removable foam bivy pad would be nice, but not mandatory

Anybody got anything they love?

[TAFKALVS]

Cilogear 30z or 40B. Or basically anything from them in that size range. I use a 30:30 from them for overnight stuff but it might a little big for day trips.

[bikeorski]

It doesn't have an avy tool pocket, but the black diamond Axis 33 fits your criteria well. It's a super slick top/panel loader mix. Carries skis A-frame OK.

[neck beard]

Take a look at the Arcteryx Khamski 38
http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?lan...ki-38-Backpack

I've used it ski touring for 60 days this season. Only broken one compression strap buckle.

Possibly all your specs except the removable foam pad.

Or Alpine Threadworks Selkirk pack if you are ok with loop holders for your tools. It has a great removable foam pad.

[adrenalated]

Mammut Spindrift Guide 35L

[Island Bay]

NB, could you compare the two, please? Durability; everyday functionality; feel/fit. I was looking closely at the Alpine Threadworks Selkirk pack, but the Khamski does tick a lot of boxes, and might be much easier to get hold of.
Thanks

Take a look at the Arcteryx Khamski 38
http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?lan...ki-38-Backpack

I've used it ski touring for 60 days this season. Only broken one compression strap buckle.

Possibly all your specs except the removable foam pad.

Or Alpine Threadworks Selkirk pack if you are ok with loop holders for your tools. It has a great removable foam pad.

[kevino]

Haha did the OP copy and past that list from my thread?

Loving my Selkirk pack, ice axe holder could use a little refinement but it's great otherwise.

I'm waiting for my cilogear 26z to show up...3 months and counting...

[neck beard]

IslandBay-

Selkirk pack has more useful pockets, which I like, though I would have liked the lid zipper to open wider for gloved hands. I'd also like the soft sleeve into the main compartment to have been longer to allow for overpacking. The regular Selkirk material is known to be very very durable. Khamski needs more interior pockets: one under the lid for wallets, phones, emergency comms etc. Past packs have also had a frame sleeve inside, the Kamski doesn't. So I don't have anywhere to tuck my flat roll of toilet paper, splints, emergency response/WFR notes and pencil in ziplock bag etc etc. Stuff like that never needs to be seen or noticed in a pack until it is needed. Selkirk doesn't have tensioning straps over the shoulders, and I like them. Waist belt and shoulder straps are about the same in material and design. Selkirk has a removable foam pad for emergency use (splint or insulation). Selkirk has two exterior side sleeves for probe, saw, shovel shaft. I like them a lot, but they are a bit deep and so sometimes harder to extract the probe with a glove on. Overall, the Selkirk is a very functional pack designed and hand made by a backcountry skier and it shows. It lacks nothing, and has no complicated bs (see Osprey packs). The Khamski is similarly functional without over design, but it is probably more comfortable and ergonomic for my skinny body.

[BrokeSomeRibs]

Haha did the OP copy and past that list from my thread?

Loving my Selkirk pack, ice axe holder could use a little refinement but it's great otherwise.

I'm waiting for my cilogear 26z to show up...3 months and counting...

Totally copied 95% of it with one or two minor tweaks. We have damn near identical requirements. Let's be pack buddies!

[GeezerSteve]

Dan McHale can build you whatever you want, and it'll be custom fit for only you and thus carry better than any mass-produced pack. He recently built me a Bump for ski touring and mountaineering. (I have 2 other McHale packs for longer trips.) I had Dan make my new Bump with three parallel daisy chains that give me lots of flexibility re diagonal carries, carrying axes, etc. I also had him make it of bombproof 420D fabric to withstand rough use. (My other McHales are full Dyneema fabric.)

Dan calls his tool pocket a kangaroo pouch. I have a detachable one that fits all of my McHales, but seldom use it for ski touring because I prefer to keep the pack payload as close to my back as possible, especially if I am doing a diagonal carry. There are other ways to carry wet skins. YMMV. My wife likes having a kangaroo pouch on her McHale packs.

What's wrong with ice axe loops? All the alleged "modern designs" I've seen are a solution in search of a problem.

[kevino]

Big Steve, I assume you don't climb with hammerless or adze-less ice tools. Loops don't work great, or at all, with those. "Modern designs", like on cilogear packs are simple and get the job done. To each their own though. Then again, I got rid of my nomics and all I have are quarks, so its kinda a mute point for myself now.

And honestly, OP, if you contact Neil at Alpine Threadworks he is happy to customize things for you. Always worth an email.

[BFD]

[QUOTE-TWO ice axe holders,modern design - not the loop[/QUOTE]
I must be an idiot but I do not get the modern design thing. I've done some alpine routes and walked out of plenty of ice climbs so I thought I could attach an axe. I really cannot figure out the mountain Hardware bottle openers on my 50l pack. Bought a black diamond 50l and it has some fastex buckles to hold the tools. really I do not know how these are better than the loop.
too piggy back on this thread I am heading to MT for a 75 mile tour ski mo thing. We are cashing food and feul after 45 miles. so can I get it all in the Black Diamond 50L. I think I need a 0 bag.

[GeezerSteve]

No, I don't use hammerless/adzeless tools other than a Whippet, which carries fine in a loop if you twist the loop a few times. See pic below. If I were carrying tools like those in the pics, I'd rig something to go through the holes. IMO, climbing/skimo packs should have daisy chains so you can rig whatever works best.

[kevino]

Like I said, it works, just not great. To me, this is much more confidence inspiring:

[BFD]

thank's for posting that picture. Now I see how it is supposed to work. I do not see the elastic stretch stuff lasting . I could be wrong. seems like you have to screw with the elastic stuff to secure the shaft with than the head.Old way jam it through the loop secure shaft. Less fooling around. I do not have hammerlaess tools so maybe this works better. seems to me it is like BD making the mercury mitt into the lobster claw. Stupid idea. When your going for your mitts who wants to mess around getting your finger in.

[neck beard]

Those elastic things worry me. And those BlackDiamond clip things confuse me.

I like having the pick hidden away from a neatness perspective when skiing. But I think that is just emotional.

On the Khamski you can reach around and get your tool by unclipping one buckle at the bottom, without removing your pack. A nice feature on skis when you can move a little too quickly into terrain/snow that is... unnerving.

[shafty85]

This is such a difficult topic - I've been searching for one that I love for years. Yet to find one I'm considering the AT Selkirk and the Khamski but have yet to decide on either. While I like the idea of purchasing a pack made in Canada, getting the side-panel access would eliminate a side pocket for avi gear, which would suck, and I don't like the velcro portion of the and the axe/ice tool holder. Ice/snow and velcro don't mix.

[kevino]

The elastic things for my ice tool handles on my cilogear pack have held up for 5+ seasons. I agree with everyone though, its a very opinionated area and its hard to find something that exactly matches up. Sometimes its worth it to spend the extra money to get a full custom (see Big Steve's post) or partially custom made/fit (AT). I'm on my third season of my selkirk and haven't regretted it once.

Picture from a couple seasons ago showing it in it's natural environment:

[shafty85]

The elastic things for my ice tool handles on my cilogear pack have held up for 5+ seasons. I agree with everyone though, its a very opinionated area and its hard to find something that exactly matches up. Sometimes its worth it to spend the extra money to get a full custom (see Big Steve's post) or partially custom made/fit (AT). I'm on my third season of my selkirk and haven't regretted it once.

Picture from a couple seasons ago showing it in it's natural environment:

You don't find the velcro annoying/impractical?

[GeezerSteve]

kevino, is that the N side of Mt. Stuart?

The carry system on that white pack would be no problem to rig up on my McHale Bump. I don't have a pic of a 3 daisy chain McHale. There are lots of pics on Dan's website of packs with 2 daisy chains. Dan sewed a 3rd one in between for my Bump and a bud's LBP. 3 daisy chains makes it super versatile to rig for carrying equipment for a wide variety of trips with technical gear and/or skis. Re elastic, velcro or other material wearing out, the daisy chains are made to put on whatever you need. Permanent ice axe loops or permanent straps on a pack that is expected to last awhile is kinda stoopid. I have Dan make my McHales with removable side compression straps and lid straps.

Once you've carried a properly fitted custom-made pack, you'll never go back to mass-produced. Re $$, McHales may actually be less expensive over the long haul if you get out there alot. Since 1994 I have put hundreds of days of McHale packs, most of those days rugged off-trail, mountaineering, high routing or ski touring, and all of those packs are going strong. (I had Dan recently do some minor repair work on my workhorse full Dyneema uberlight LBP.) I would have gone through at least a dozen mass-produced packs in those 2 decades +. Durability and custom configuration/size/fabrics are secondary reasons I carry McHales. Stability, fit and comfort are the primary reasons to get a custom pack.

[auvgeek]

I'd been interested in Dan McHale's packs ever since I first read Steve mention them a few years ago. But after finding out that Neil/Alpine Threadworks also offers packs that are custom-made for your back length for significantly less money, I pretty much lost interest. I have a 45L Selkirk Light in full D40 dyneema with compression straps 3x/side; the total was $290 + shipping. The McHale packs seem great; they may even be better than the AT packs. But, to me, I highly doubt they're worth twice as much.

Edit: Someone should ask Neil about adding a more modern ice-tool design, and let me/us know about his response. I don't want to bug him when I likely wouldn't pay for shipping both ways to have them added even if he was willing.

[rod9301]

+1 on mchale packs. I searched everywhere for a 35 l pack that can cary 40+ pounds easily and there was nothing available.
My custom mchale pack does that and with two side pouches, it's big enough for a 8 day sierra traverse on skis, which I'm going to do this year, if we ever get snow.

[GeezerSteve]

Other than custom torso length, McHale vs. Alpine Threadworks is apples vs. oranges. McHale also customizes per shoulder width, hip belt stack height and other parameters, offers 2 very different kind of belts, removable stays that can be elongated for heavier loads or can be shortened when using optional bayonet/bypass suspension system, etc. etc. Every McHale pack is different. Every aspect is custom. So, yeah, they are worth 2X or 3X as much, especially for carrying heavier loads (>25 lbs. for basic SARC to 100+ lbs. for CM/bypass packs).

From what I see (only 1 in person + pics), those AT packs look well designed. I like the simple belt design (mushy overly padded belts suck, create pressure points) and offering custom torso length is great, IMO essential to get a really good fit. McHale's Guide belt -- also a simple design but more substantial CCF -- is a significant step up in terms of load carrying capacity, but maybe not needed if you're carrying <25 lbs.

[Ottoclave]

It's not the perfect ski pack, but the Cold Cold World Chernobyl is a pretty solid all around pack IME.

Mine's a bit aged at this point, but it's still solid and reliable for an off the shelf item.

[telelebowski]

Mammut Spindrift Guide 35L

I have the 40L version. It dominates.