Need a new ski mountaineering Ski-Mo pack.

[Jonathan S.]

[...] my tele pro shovel blade is about 12"x10" not sure if it will fit inside.[...]

A classic workhorse shovel model!
Lots of comparable models though now have "neck-less" blades which make stowing inside small-ish packs much more feasible.

[Jonathan S.]

[...]I already have a couple 20L race packs that I occasionally tour with. For all the salomons, I think the features like a zipper on the pon pouch and a ski carry that's a bit more secure than the race hook really makes them shine for touring compared to the pure race packs.

That was essentially my thinking last year: a bit more room than a typical 20L race pack (i.e., even though the X Alp 20 is named, well, 20, definitely feels more spacious that a CAMP 20L race pack), and the slightly wider straps, etc., made carrying skis/bindings/boots (albeit race bindings & boots, although heavier skis) on my pack for hours at a time far more tolerable than if I'd been using a more narrowly focused race pack.
Overall, along with more durable materials, plus some other features, I felt like Salomon really got it right with the goal of the X Alp 20: a race-derived design + several more ounces = a pack that is good for far more than just racing.

[Jonathan S.]

^^^^^ Have you seen this: https://ultimatedirection.com/skimo-28/

This is the only user review I've seen:
http://skimo.co/ultimate-direction-skimo-28
(I know someone who has it, but unfortunately he's been out of touch lately -- might be bigger issues going on...)

[BFD]

A classic workhorse shovel model!
Lots of comparable models though now have "neck-less" blades which make stowing inside small-ish packs much more feasible.

you are correct about the neck. never wanted to be that guy that needed a special shovel for every occasion.

[North]

https://www.levelninesports.com/salo...untry-backpack

https://www.levelninesports.com/salo...lp-30-backpack

I couldnt resist, and decided to pick up the 30.

Oh snap! I'm getting in on that 20. Guess my google shopping skills are getting rusty.

BTW, anybody wager a guess for how that rope grommet is supposed to be practically used?

Glory hole.

[Jonathan S.]

Nice, I was hoping you'd chime in. Thanks for the review link - good info in there.

The changes I'm seeing are:
- Zippered pocket for shovel handle/probe compartment - maybe extraneous for weight weenies but I appreciate avy gear organizers
- Micro daisy chains - might be easier to rig a vertical carry in a pinch with these
- "XTREME" compartment grommet relocated to side of door - doubt I'll feed a rope through this as shown so immaterial to me

Nothing major, but given that the 20 & 23 can both be had for roughly ~$110 right now daisy chains and the pocket are enough for me to lean towards the new one.

You're welcome -- and thanks for the old/new comparison!

Now that I have my 20 pack in front of the 23 internet listing:

• Sounds like we're both interpreting the "side probe and shovel zipped compartment" as really being more like a sleeve for probe and shovel handle/shaft only? (Otherwise I don't see how a shovel blade can make it through that small partial zipper toward the top of the pack?
• Micro daisy chains do look potentially useful.
• The other door change is that the zipper path appears to have been rerouted somewhat so that the turns the zipper pull has to negotiate will be easier (in theory...) to manage with the pack still on your pack.

Also (and although this undermines my 20 resale value if I decide to buy the 23), for anyone who didn't click through, crazy deal here:
https://www.levelninesports.com/salo...untry-backpack
... that doesn't show up in Google Shopping.
And here's one even cheaper that appears to have fallen off the pack of a truck:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bnav_se...=x+alp+20+pack

[Jonathan S.]

you are correct about the neck. never wanted to be that guy that needed a special shovel for every occasion.

Guilty as charged for being that guy!

Having gone from more traditional designs to neckless designs, so much easier not dealing with packing a neck on a shovel blade.
Then again though, given your snow climate, something to be said for sticking with a tried & true shovel model!

[Jonathan S.]

Oh snap! I'm getting in on that 20. Guess my google shopping skills are getting rusty.

It's not you -- somehow it isn't showing up on Google Shopping.

Glory hole.

I just love the mix of practicality and humor in this forum!
(Although for the record, I'm classifying the above comment in the latter category.)

[BFD]

thanks for the heads up on pack. picked up a 30. have to figure out the shovel. Had an old Dakine Guide that had rear zipper always liked that.

[auvgeek]

^^ OT, but I've been happy with the Ortovox Kodiak recommended by adrenalated a while back as a replacement for the TelePro. On sale now, too. Seems to check all my boxes: neckless design, hoe mode, D-handle, decent blade size. Some icing/snow packing issues with the handle-release mechanism after digging pits, but nothing awful so far. Durability still unproven, but I haven't heard of any major complaints. Not 100% sure it will fit in this pack, but, if so, it's a neckless design that could serve as a true replacement for the TelePro, rather than a small, potentially useless "skimo" shovel.

Looking hard at the X-alp 20 as a light daypack; thanks for the heads up!

[kevino]

For those curious, I picked up the 30L because.....well I have a problem.

Used it yesterday for a technical climb and ski line with carrying skis for the first couple miles. Loaded with helmet, axe, rope, harness, personal gear, etc. The layout and functionality of the lower pouch (could fit my crampons, harness and personal gear) and back panel access with skis on made it super useful.

My only negative is the skis like to fall to the side of the pack rather than stay diagonal then hit me in the shoulder. I also haven't figured out what the right lower bungee cord is for.

and in follow up to Zak, the ortovox shovel handle is too long to fit inside.

[auvgeek]

Sounds like the packs are pretty reasonable/large for the stated volume? Bummer about the Kodiak shovel being too large. Did you carry your smaller one yesterday, or is the snowpack consolidated enough that no avy gear needed? If not, could you have fit the shovel in, also? Were you in approach shoes with boots in bindings on pack for the first couple miles, or did you hike in your TLT6s?

Asking all these question because I'm split between the 20L and 30L for day trips that might start with a few miles in approach shoes and use foot 'pons + axe but no harness/rope/rack.

[Boissal]

For those curious, I picked up the 30L because.....well I have a problem.

Used it yesterday for a technical climb and ski line with carrying skis for the first couple miles. Loaded with helmet, axe, rope, harness, personal gear, etc. The layout and functionality of the lower pouch (could fit my crampons, harness and personal gear) and back panel access with skis on made it super useful.

My only negative is the skis like to fall to the side of the pack rather than stay diagonal then hit me in the shoulder. I also haven't figured out what the right lower bungee cord is for.

and in follow up to Zak, the ortovox shovel handle is too long to fit inside.

I also picked up a 30L from the link posted earlier. Ordered it online Friday, it shipped to the SLC store same day and I was skiing with it Saturday.
Observations:

. I may never ski with my airbag again, those 5 extra pounds are very noticeable. The pack is about 2 lbs empty, my Float is over 7 lbs.

. I'm glad I didn't get the 20 or 23L pack as I'd max out that capacity for technical outings. Saturday involved bulletproof snow and a rappel, the pack easily swallowed a 1L bladder, 30m 7mm cord, crampons, ski crampons, harness with a mess of slings, shovel + proble, spare thick gloves, hat goggles, puffy, and a random bunch of small stuff. There was a bit or room to spare (skins + midlayer would fit).

. Gotta rethink my packing strategy based on the back panel zipper. I didn't think I'd use it but it's much nicer to get to your stuff through the back than through the top. The back opening is huge but the neck of the pack is a bit narrow and once it's loaded it's much easier to leave the top alone, especially if you're not taking the pack off but just swinging it around with the hip belt attached.

. On a similar note, I need to get used to the lack of a separate avi tool pocket. Probe and handle are nicely separated in the sleeve but I'm not a big fan of the blade banging around in the main compartment and it's not friendly to a water bladder.

. The crampon compartment is really nice and seems bombproof. I used it to stash ski crampons and a 30m 7mm rope on this outing and it worked great. Using the rope feeding eyelet will require careful coiling though, you're not pulling any knots through it.

. The pack carries well when fully loaded, had a bit of an issue with the back panel zipper digging into my spine (resolved by opening the top inch of it) and the top of the suspension putting pressure across my shoulders (probably a sizing issue, I think it would be worse if I were taller than 5'11" as the pack frame is pretty short) but that wasn't a deal breaker. Once I figured out the ski attachment (see below) it felt really well balanced when booting. I need to see how it works when skis and boots are on it, the shoulder straps and hip belt are nicely padded but they're not haul bag quality either... The chest strap is way tight, if you're barrel chested you're not closing it.

. I also flailed around with the bungee attachment which makes the upper half of the ski carrying system. Both the lower loop you slide the tails through and the bungee are on the left side of the pack. The bungee is long enough that it makes a big loose loop which allows the skis to slide around from diagonal carry to hanging straight up on the left side of the pack. I know that's how super light packs are designed but it doesn't work for skis that are slightly heavier or longer, makes the load really unbalanced and the tails are constantly hitting you in the heels... I wish the bungee was on the right shoulder strap and shorter, that would limit movement. I ended up running it under and across both shoulder straps and it worked out but it involves a lot of effort and the attachment doesn't feel super secure, I might replace the Salomon clippy thing with a mini-carabiner...

Anyway, overall it is a great pack and if you can snag it for $80 I'd definitely recommend it.

[LawndartGustav]

I'm also thinking of what to do or how to place the shovel blade but haven't figured it out yet. Now it's just loose in the pack.
I do like the pack a lot though. I have a Haglöfs 20L comp bag which is 250g and I'll happily carry the 900g X-alp 30 for everything that isn't super fast and light in every way.

[North]

For those curious, I picked up the 30L because.....well I have a problem.

My problem is worse than your problem; I picked up all 3, thinking I'd compare and then return 2. I'm keeping the 30L, TBD on the smaller ones, but here's the comparo for anybody interested:

20L:
- Voile Tele Pro blade fits (tight), and can be tucked behind the internal zippered pocket
- Shovel handle (mine is actually a slightly shorter Tele Pack handle) and probe barely fit (reeaally tight)
- Crampon pocket is somewhat tricky to operate with one hand
- I can fit all of my gear in this one (including a pretty bulky med kit) but diag ski carry is uncomfortable at full stuff.

23L: Nice upgrades over the 20L
- Noticeable increase in volume
- Shovel handle/probe compartment is separate from main pouch, and doesn't bottom out on crampon pocket - much easier to fit probe/handle
- D ring on shoulder strap allows for more secure ski carry attachment
- Internal hanger for bladder
- Refined sternum strap system - allows for infinite adjustment and is easy to operate
- Crampon pocket is easier to open/close with one hand
- One gripe: the internal zippered pocket is sewn to the front panel, which prevents me from slipping my shovel blade behind it, and negates use of the pocket
- Ski carry is still uncomfortable (feels unbalanced, lots of force on the shoulder strap) at full stuff

30L: All of the refinements of the 23L with some bonus features
- Upgraded sternum strap (same as 23L) and more secure ski carry that utilizes a beefy sewn loop (like on a climbing harness) to hook into
- Big top pocket for goggles, etc. Skins will fit in here too.
- Internal pouch for shovel handle and probe
- Hook/loop style waist belt
- Diag Ski carry comfortable and secure. My pack came with the carry strap on the left shoulder, I moved it to the right
- Back panel zipper is harder to operate than 20L, 23L, when accessing the back panel with the waist belt still attached

[Boissal]

- Diag Ski carry comfortable and secure. My pack came with the carry strap on the left shoulder, I moved it to the right

How the hell did you pull this off? That's the first thing I try to do and it wasn't happening without scissors and a sewing kit coming out...

[auvgeek]

Really appreciate the longer reviews and comparisons. Swayed me to the 30L.

North, was your review of the new or old/closeout 30L? Anybody know if there's a difference? Probably not worth the $$ for me, but I'm curious.

[North]

I'm glad I didn't get the 20 or 23L pack as I'd max out that capacity for technical outings.

I think the 23L might work if I could get the ski carry dialed

I also flailed around with the bungee attachment which makes the upper half of the ski carrying system.

I wish the bungee was on the right shoulder strap and shorter, that would limit movement.

I moved mine to the right. It is a tight girth hitch, but can be undone. I couldn't brainstorm a way to use it on the left side (what did you hook the clip to?). On the right side, diag carry works really well. I wrap the bungee clockwise around the skis (if viewing down on top of pack)

[North]

How the hell did you pull this off? That's the first thing I try to do and it wasn't happening without scissors and a sewing kit coming out...

Heh, that's the 2nd time I've been typing and see your response come up after hit reply. It can be done! No cutting or sewing for me.

North, was your review of the new or old/closeout 30L? Anybody know if there's a difference?

I have the closeout 30L. It seems like the order of design went 20L -> closeout 30L -> 23L -> new 30L. They might have tweaked the new 30L with some of the stuff from the 23 (d ring, maybe ski bungee on the right side from the start?) but I think the major changes were incorporated into the closeout model.

[Boissal]

I moved mine to the right. It is a tight girth hitch, but can be undone. I couldn't brainstorm a way to use it on the left side (what did you hook the clip to?). On the right side, diag carry works really well. I wrap the bungee clockwise around the skis (if viewing down on top of pack)

I need to look at mine again tonight, I tried for a few minutes but I didn't think I could undo the girth hitch, looked like they had girthed the narrow piece of webbing on the stitched the bungee to it, making it too wide to fit back through the loop. Good to hear it can be done...

Re: design, I can't find a single difference between the closeout and the detailed images from the new 30 L version.

This is what I did with it on the left shoulder: fit the bungee (along the green line) under each pack strap then loop it over the skis on the right shoulder (the black line I drew) and clip in the stitched loop on the R shoulder (green circle to green circle). Bit tight but it worked OK and the skis never budged. When I first tried I ran the bungee from their attachment on the L shoulder, over the skis, and to the loop on the R shoulder. I shouldered the back and the skis immediately swung around to stand straight up then bounced back and forth with each step...

[Boissal]

Does it make me a complete moron if I need a damn user manual to figure out how to make a backpack work? I can't even figure out if Salomon is sandbagging me by describing a separate probe & shovel compartment and a bladder compartment with hanging straps... Unless that's something they only did with the new model. Mine has 1 compartment on the side that will fit probe/handle or bladder but that's it.

[auvgeek]

Does it make me a complete moron if I need a damn user manual to figure out how to make a backpack work?

I think it makes the pack over-engineered.

Edit: Is there a way to rig an A-frame ski carry on the 30L with the compression straps? I wouldn't be opposed to putting a buckle on the top one, if necessary.

[SKIP IN7RO]

Does it make me a complete moron if I need a damn user manual to figure out how to make a backpack work?

The X ALP 30 pack takes all its tips from top mountaineers: "make it robust and super easy to use in every situation". Because in tough conditions, confidence and ease equate with safety.

[Boissal]

I think it makes the pack over-engineered.

Edit: Is there a way to rig an A-frame ski carry on the 30L with the compression straps? I wouldn't be opposed to putting a buckle on the top one, if necessary.

I saw a sales video from a Swiss website claiming you can use the straps for A frame carry...

[LawndartGustav]

I saw a sales video from a Swiss website claiming you can use the straps for A frame carry...

Probably true but have a look at where the edges will contact the bag and maybe put some duct tape there =)