Val D'Isere/Tignes, 3 Vallees, and Paradiski - any good? Dolomites?

[marving]

These are the 3 of the 4 biggest lift serviced ski areas in the world (excluding Portes du Soleil) and are all close to each other.. but you don't see them mentioned on here too much. Chamonix, La Grave, Verbier, Zermatt, St. Anton, etc.. get all the glory. I imagine the big draw of the huge interconnected areas is all the piste skiing they offer, but surely there would also be a mind boggling amount of off piste as well? Or is the terrain not that interesting? Or it doesn't snow much compared to elsewhere? Or everything good is south facing and rotten most of the time?

I've been to the big internationally famous places: Chamonix, La Grave, Verbier, and Zermatt.. largely because of the TGR influence, have yet to make it out to St.Anton. All were awesome and would go back to all except maybe Zermatt. Cute town, great views, lift served skiing was ok but I didn't find too much lift serviced steeps like the other places. Looks like there would be some nice touring on Monte Rosa, but if I'm going to tour Chamonix and La Grave seem to be more interesting.

So I was wondering if it would be worth spending a week in the Tarentaise or would I end up being disappointed if I have no interest in piste skiing? And if it's worth going, which is the best area of the three to focus on? And also the Dolomites don't get much mention on here either, northern Italy any good?

[twann74]

Hi!
The espace killy in val d'isère/tignes is truely amazing with a lot of steep couloirs and wide open terrain. Tree skiing is great too. There's also big crowds. Definetely avoid national holidays. And if you're going there, I advise you to ride Sainte Foy. It's a little resort with a little village, cheap skipasses, only locals... and the skiing is really amazing!


Otherwise, if you like chamonix, la grave and those well-known freeride resorts, avoid paradiski. It's too flat. The resort is really big, but you'll spend more time waiting for lifts and doing easy slopes than real skiing.
I've never been to the 3Vallées, but it sounds like a great resort for freeride with a lot of options.

Sorry for my bad english...

[Mountain Relish]

I have skied for between 5 weeks, and a season in each place, and I would echo most of what Twann74 has said. There are some good runs in paradiski, but not many that you can justify leaving Espace Killy for.

Espace Killy is huge, and has so much amazing terrain that you could ski different stuff every day for a week, and not find yourself bored. It is also higher than the others, so the snow will probably be holding up better.

The 3 Valleys have some fun terrain. I did not get to know the off piste as well as in Espace Killy, but there was certainly stuff to do.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Dolomites are great, but not this year. It looks like May-June over there right now.

[marving]

Sorry I should have clarified, not for this year, I know it's a wonky year. Still curious why these massive ski areas get no love on TGR. Are they the Vail of the alps? It's strange because I've read a lot of great things about Val/Tignes on other sites, it seems like it would be a great place to spend a week or a season?

[ClarkleberryFinn]

I'm you wanna climb and ski rad couloirs (and eat like a king), you'll struggle to find anywhere better than the Dolomites.

Not usually the safest bet for pow though.

[philippeR]

I ski Espace Killy à lot and I love it. The possibilities are endless .Of course, I'm not rad at all (like a dentist, but poor), but I think the lack of love for Espace Killy is because it's a /overpriced b/packed with drunk brits and russian oligarchs c/packed with crazy swedes ready to get first tracks when the avy forecast is at 5/5, d/remote, at the end of the Tarentaise.
But the skiing is outstanding.
I believe Davide de Masi spend à season here à few years ago and posted some cool TRs.

[subtle plague]

Overpriced swedish Oligarchs is the take home message here. I skied there before I was rad (my 20year old self would find me rad now, the rest ofthe world maybe not so much) or before Philippe was a poor dentist and before freeskiing was a trend (in 1997) and my scared 20 year old version of me found the offpiste very entertaining.

[Mr. Mike]

I just spent a week in the Dolomites in January, and the skiing there is more about moderately pitched piste skiing. The adventure is more about traveling 50 miles in a day without taking your skis off, than about hard core lines and powdershots. TGR posters tend to be more about the latter than the former. There are some gnarly looking lines for sure, but my impression is that you never know from year to year whether said lines will have adequate snow (they did not a year [edit: I mean a month] ago), plus you are supposedly required by law to have a guide for anything much off piste.

A lot of the fun of the Dolomites is related to the food and scenery too. Again, not things that TGR posters value as highly.
I had a blast and highly recommend it, but it doesn't sound like it's exactly what you are looking for at this point in life. Put it on your list and hit it in a few years (I'm 49).

PS: Venice was way better than Salt Lake City as a gateway town for a ski trip.

[Thatcher]

I'm a huge fan of Val d'Isere/Tignes and of the Dolomites. I've been to the Dolomites twice, once in their worst season ever and again in one of their best seasons. I loved it both times, but for different reasons. Had a stand out meal at the restaurant at La Perla in Corvara. Also loved the people watching and the beauty of Cortina. If you're going with a guide, both the Dolomites and Val d'Isere offer endless potential. I've posted on both with photos buried in this TR:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...asons-20-areas

[Onward]

Me & Meathelmut spent a week i Val d'Isere in 2009. I've spent a few weeks there before as well. Huge amount of terrain straight out of the lifts, even more if you put in the effort to skin for 30 mins or so...

Meat wrote a TR here: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...r-extravaganza!!

[Mr. Mike]

I'm a huge fan of Val d'Isere/Tignes and of the Dolomites. I've been to the Dolomites twice, once in their worst season ever and again in one of their best seasons. I loved it both times, but for different reasons. Had a stand out meal at the restaurant at La Perla in Corvara. Also loved the people watching and the beauty of Cortina. If you're going with a guide, both the Dolomites and Val d'Isere offer endless potential. I've posted on both with photos buried in this TR:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...asons-20-areas

We spent 4 nights at La Perla. Fantastic place. The bartender even led the Missus and I and another couple on a ski safari on his day off. We covered a ton of ground and never once glanced at a ski map the entire day.

[Mr. Mike]

to the OP, forgot to mention, I have also skied 3 Vallees although 15 years ago. I found plenty of challenging off piste there just a 5-10 minute hike of the lifts, both above Courchevel and Val Thorens. I think "radness" is a bit more accessible and available there than the Dolomites, but I was probably looking a lot harder for it 15 years ago than now.

[philippeR]

Overpriced swedish Oligarchs is the take home message here. I skied there before I was rad (my 20year old self would find me rad now, the rest ofthe world maybe not so much) or before Philippe was a poor dentist and before freeskiing was a trend (in 1997) and my scared 20 year old version of me found the offpiste very entertaining.

Eh, in 1997 your 20 years old you may have bumped into my 30 years old me (already unrad).

[Hicks]

Not much to add beyond what had been said already. Out of the places mentioned Tignes is the best within Tarentaise when it comes to lift accessed bc skiing, Val d'Isere has got decent terrain around the Iseran.
Regarding Trois Vallees I recall decent terrain to hike up to above posh Courchevel as well as some good stuff above Val Thorens beyond Caron - where I would base out of if going there. Don't waste your time on Paradiski, then better take a look at Alp d'Huez instead.
The Canalones in the Dolomites are awesome and fun but only if they are in somewhat decent condition, so better check before you go there. Else not so much fun stuff to do there when compared to the other resorts on your list.

If touring is your thing then wait for spring and go up the Maurienne valley. Almost Mediterranean vegetation low and awesome terrain high up. One of the most beautiful places the entire Alps have to offer IMO.

[philippeR]

Re Paradiski, if it's true that a lot of the terrain is rather flat, it's still huge enough to entertain... And the Face nord de Bellecôte is a classic.

[Arno]

Indeed. The North Face of the Bellecote is ridiculous- a mile vertical. Couloir Canadiens something like 900m at 40 degrees.

Also the backside of the Aig Rouge has some very impressive lines which get skied surprisingly little.

I think Paradiski has a reputation as an intermediate/family area and it is great for them, but this masks some of the great skiing there. Not that I'm complaining- more than happy for the wannabe extrem skiers to swarm to Chamonix and leave places like this (and Alpe d'Huez - my favourite "family" resort) to me

if you want to keep prices reasonable, you can stay somewhere like Bourg St Maurice which has a funicular railway up to Les Arcs and buses up to St Foy and Tignes/Val d'Isere. For the 3 Valleys, you can stay at Brides le Bains and take the gondola up to Meribel. BSM has a bit more atmosphere to it and a better range of places to eat out etc

as a taster here's a pic of Couloir Valdez off the back of Aig Rouge:

[Benny Profane]

Nice.

[njred]

Sorry I should have clarified, not for this year, I know it's a wonky year. Still curious why these massive ski areas get no love on TGR. Are they the Vail of the alps? It's strange because I've read a lot of great things about Val/Tignes on other sites, it seems like it would be a great place to spend a week or a season?

I say they are more like the Whistler/Blackcomb of the alps. TGR tends to skew towards the extreme tail end of the ski population. If a line doesn't have 50+ feet cliffs, 40+ deg pitch, a 20 ft cornice drop-in, and a 2 feet wide chute then it's not interesting enough. Also TGR skews North American so Euro resorts aren't really on most people's radar here.

I never skied the Dolomites or Paradiski, but I can assure you that there are a lot more fun off-piste terrain in Val/Tigne/3 Vallees than you'll have time for.

[hafjell]

I just spent a week in the Dolomites in January, and the skiing there is more about moderately pitched piste skiing. The adventure is more about traveling 50 miles in a day without taking your skis off, than about hard core lines and powdershots. TGR posters tend to be more about the latter than the former. There are some gnarly looking lines for sure, but my impression is that you never know from year to year whether said lines will have adequate snow (they did not a year [edit: I mean a month] ago), plus you are supposedly required by law to have a guide for anything much off piste...

PS: Venice was way better than Salt Lake City as a gateway town for a ski trip.

Just re-reading this. Short story:
You can lawfully ski offpiste without a guide in the Dolomites.
Yes, Venice is a good gateway, but also consider Munich.
Long story: I'm probably being pedantic, but I'd say the adventure in a terrible snow year is more about traveling 50 miles in a day. In a decent or great snow year, it can be about farming powder with a lot of elbow room, very good steep skiing in world-class couloirs, again, without much competition, and an excellent lift system to ease your burden if you prefer not to tour. Want to ski 1,600' of 45-50 degrees with 0' of ascending, or 4,700' of offpiste with a few hundred yards of 35-40 degrees to keep the tourists away? Want to ski lines that require a rappel into or out of or in the midst of? Want to do all of this in the morning while your S.O. skis corduroy and then meet up for lunch at any of a boat-load of huts serving best-in-the-ski-world food? The Dolomites have it. They're just hard to get to for Americans so they don't get a lot of press. They're also lower than Val d'Isere, so less snow security. But, Italy is cheaper than France and Austria, and way cheaper than CH.
Oh, and if touring is your thing, hello multiple protected parks with years of skiing in them.

[Buster Highmen]

I have only been to Les Trois Vallees and Verbier for a couple of days and I've never been to l'Espace Killy nor Paradiski.
It's just that I came to a conclusion a while ago that I have a better time at the less developed places. There's a different pace and flavor there and skiing that I enjoy more.

Both Les Trois Vallees and Verbier have mind blowing skiing (as I'm sure l'Espace Killy does) but they're so busy and flashy I felt the same way I do in big cities. Like there's not enough and competition for resources is intense. Chamonix too.

The reason I get drawn back to La Grave is because of the lack of development and because family and small businesses seem to have a larger presence there. Plus the dogs on the telepherique: where else does that happen with frequency? Even Andermatt with the new Chedi development and improved lifts in that Swiss efficiency seems more like a place that exhibits the local culture or at least smaller businesses.

I do think La Grave's reputation is overblown. There's lots of great safe advanced skiing there, not everything is death defying or super gnar. A big part of why I go there is that it's beautiful, especially the little towns up on the sunnier hillside across from La Meije. That and the pace.

I also think Alagna and MonteRosa is underrated for the skiing. While the place is mostly south facing and gets windblasted and is not known for consistent snow, it's amazing. I do think it's a mistake to not place it in the same category as Chamonix in terms of touring and huDge gnarly lines like the Tyndall or the Marinelli. Plus, it's not developed as much with no enormous concrete block hotels. Again, there's something about the pace and tone there combined with the beauty of the old stone building and Walser houses that's just striking.

The big resorts are safer in terms of dealing with travel, hotels, restaurants and resources. They're more of a known and managed thing. That's what a lot of people look for in a vacation.

I look more for things I have to figure out and explore. I want to go check out Arolla, Val d'Annivers and am doing some reconnaissance in the Dolomites shortly.

Anyway, I think why Val D'Isere/Tignes, 3 Vallees, and Paradiski - don't get much love here is because a lot of us want a little more element of adventure in skiing Yurp. If any of you fuckers want to meet up somewhere off the beaten path to ski Yurp, ping me.

[hafjell]

I have only been to Les Trois Vallees and Verbier for a couple of days and I've never been to l'Espace Killy nor Paradiski.
It's just that I came to a conclusion a while ago that I have a better time at the less developed places. There's a different pace and flavor there and skiing that I enjoy more.

Both Les Trois Vallees and Verbier have mind blowing skiing (as I'm sure l'Espace Killy does) but they're so busy and flashy I felt the same way I do in big cities. Like there's not enough and competition for resources is intense. Chamonix too.

The reason I get drawn back to La Grave is because of the lack of development and because family and small businesses seem to have a larger presence there. Plus the dogs on the telepherique: where else does that happen with frequency? Even Andermatt with the new Chedi development and improved lifts in that Swiss efficiency seems more like a place that exhibits the local culture or at least smaller businesses.

I do think La Grave's reputation is overblown. There's lots of great safe advanced skiing there, not everything is death defying or super gnar. A big part of why I go there is that it's beautiful, especially the little towns up on the sunnier hillside across from La Meije. That and the pace.

I also think Alagna and MonteRosa is underrated for the skiing. While the place is mostly south facing and gets windblasted and is not known for consistent snow, it's amazing. I do think it's a mistake to not place it in the same category as Chamonix in terms of touring and huDge gnarly lines like the Tyndall or the Marinelli. Plus, it's not developed as much with no enormous concrete block hotels. Again, there's something about the pace and tone there combined with the beauty of the old stone building and Walser houses that's just striking.

The big resorts are safer in terms of dealing with travel, hotels, restaurants and resources. They're more of a known and managed thing. That's what a lot of people look for in a vacation.

I look more for things I have to figure out and explore. I want to go check out Arolla, Val d'Annivers and am doing some reconnaissance in the Dolomites shortly.

Anyway, I think why Val D'Isere/Tignes, 3 Vallees, and Paradiski - don't get much love here is because a lot of us want a little more element of adventure in skiing Yurp. If any of you fuckers want to meet up somewhere off the beaten path to ski Yurp, ping me.

Brilliant. Thank you. A reminder that when I'm over there, it's part skiing and part vacation. Vacation means different things to different people. For me it means getting away from assholes. There are so many places in the Alps where the assholes congregate and skiing at those places used to drive me batty because of the vibe. The terrain could be irreproachable; but the vibe was too heavy. What some people called stoke often manifested itself in posturing, risk-taking oblivious to avalanche or exposure danger, and drinking to the point of catatonia. I'm not judging. I am saying, I don't want that on my vacation. I want to ski the steepest terrain available (not 60 degrees, I'm not that tough) and then eat well and look at chill architecture with my wife. That's part of why I love the Dolomites. They aren't quiet or deserted, but they're quieter than St. A and with a much smaller group of assholes. The apres scene in our corner wouldn't make any top ten list, but in a town of 1,200 full-time residents, there are plenty of places to go for beers or wine. It's just steep couloirs and mellow towns with $4 pints. And the locals are nice. Maybe it's just the stage I'm in and one place isn't better than another. Maybe I'm in a Dolomites stage. Hope it lasts.

[whipski]

The hike to skiing at Val D'Isere/Tignes is a lot of fun for not much effort.

[SirHeady]

Jong with questions here who has only skied in North America


1. It’s illegal to ski off piste in The Dolomites?? So basically illegal to ski pow ?

2. What Mtns are part of Paridiski and which ones are Three valleys?

3. How big is your typical Euro Ski resort ... like AltaBird big , PCMR big , or like Whistler x3 big ??


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[rod9301]

Parts of dolomites are a national park, so no explosives can be used.
Large areas are uncontrolled, so you get a 50 Euro fine if you ski off piste and you idea a chairlift to get there.

Plenty of areas where you can get under your own power and ski offpiste.

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