Val D'Isere/Tignes, 3 Vallees, and Paradiski - any good? Dolomites?

[Rossymcg]

Buster what do you know about Val d'Annivers? what im reading about the place is dragging my attention there.


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[Rossymcg]

also gressony but the snow record scares me a bit

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[Buster Highmen]

Don't know shit about Val d'Annivers except what I've read and pals have spewed. When there's a decent base, it's supposed to be rad. That whole area and Arolla is high on my list to hit but likely later in the year since Arolla blows when it's storming.

Alagna I've been to for a couple of days and the MonteRosa area blew my mind with massive glaciers, reasonable tours, great refugios and big big big vertical drops (like 7k vertical feet top to lift base continuous ski).

Most of MonteRosa faces south and gets icy after a little sun, but that bakes into decent corn too. Just go when the base is decent. I read they stopped running helis to the Col de Lys which is kind of a bummer for doing the tour through Zermatt and Cervinia back through Champoluc and Gressoney to Alagna.

Between the food and the massive sidecountry into the Bors, Vittoria and Malfatta, it's a winner.

It's a bitch to get to, you really need your own car. Downriver, there's a great little hotel call the Pescia or something in Piode on the way up. They own a garage next to the lift and if you stay at their hotel in Piode, you can park next to the tram in Alagna. The guide to get there is Sergio Gabbio who owns a little hotel in Alagna.

[Buster Highmen]

Jong with questions here who has only skied in North America


1. It’s illegal to ski off piste in The Dolomites?? So basically illegal to ski pow ?

Depends on area and conditions.

2. What Mtns are part of Paridiski and which ones are Three valleys?

ParadiSki is more or less Les Arcs and La Plagne. Trois Vallees is a little further West and consists of Meribel. Courchevel and Val Thorens/

3. How big is your typical Euro Ski resort ... like AltaBird big , PCMR big , or like Whistler x3 big ??

What's typical Euro sized? There's so many monsters that dwarf W/BC it's hard to compare. Val d'Annivers for example has like 4 enormous ski areas, each W/BC sized. The Milky Way has 63 lifts available on 1 ticket.

[bobinch]

.

It's a bitch to get to, you really need your own car

Concur with this. We drove to Gressoney from CH and skied over which saves about 3 hrs driving. Treated the missus to the fancy place in Alagna for her bd and they were somewhat surprised to see 2 scruffy looking Brits arriving at the check-in in ski boots and with avi packs and nothing else.

Driving back on Sunday night we were hungry and tired so just used the GPS to find the nearest restaurant. Small village, narrow cobbled streets, no one around, is it open? Went in to white Formica tables, bright lights, kids screaming, romantic! An hour later we left having eaten the best pizza and tiramisu i’ve ever tasted, for about 5 euros. Viva Italia!

Val d’Anniviers is good too. Crazy road to get there keeps the masses away. Skiing up to 3000m with some nice challenging terrain. Options off the back and touring for the adventurous. Patrolled freeride area for those less experienced.

[Rossymcg]

Don't know shit about Val d'Annivers except what I've read and pals have spewed. When there's a decent base, it's supposed to be rad. That whole area and Arolla is high on my list to hit but likely later in the year since Arolla blows when it's storming.

Alagna I've been to for a couple of days and the MonteRosa area blew my mind with massive glaciers, reasonable tours, great refugios and big big big vertical drops (like 7k vertical feet top to lift base continuous ski).

Most of MonteRosa faces south and gets icy after a little sun, but that bakes into decent corn too. Just go when the base is decent. I read they stopped running helis to the Col de Lys which is kind of a bummer for doing the tour through Zermatt and Cervinia back through Champoluc and Gressoney to Alagna.

Between the food and the massive sidecountry into the Bors, Vittoria and Malfatta, it's a winner.

It's a bitch to get to, you really need your own car. Downriver, there's a great little hotel call the Pescia or something in Piode on the way up. They own a garage next to the lift and if you stay at their hotel in Piode, you can park next to the tram in Alagna. The guide to get there is Sergio Gabbio who owns a little hotel in Alagna.

the drama is my situation is different to yours I'm guessing. you can pirate about storm chasing (you're young and no kids or older with older kids or very ugly no chick wants to reproduce with you). I want to buy an appartment in the Alps. Ive got 2 young daughter's and a business in the UK. So guaranteed skiing will be Xmas and New Year, Half term Feb and the 2 weeks school holidays at Easter. EK would be the perfect choice with altitude, snow and terrain but the cost of anything remotely big enough is ridiculous, 4 season lift passes aint cheap, it's not the easiest of places to get to from airports and a lot of wankers go there. Val Di'Annivers was brought to my attention as a possible place to buy

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[Buster Highmen]

the drama is my situation is different to yours I'm guessing. you can pirate about storm chasing (you're young and no kids or older with older kids or very ugly no chick wants to reproduce with you).

I'm old and ugly, can't you tell? Arrrgh.
I do have teenagers and a lovely wife who understands my ski fiendishness and her only failing is hooking up with me. Plus she rips.

I want to buy an appartment in the Alps. Ive got 2 young daughter's and a business in the UK. So guaranteed skiing will be Xmas and New Year, Half term Feb and the 2 weeks school holidays at Easter. EK would be the perfect choice with altitude, snow and terrain but the cost of anything remotely big enough is ridiculous, 4 season lift passes aint cheap, it's not the easiest of places to get to from airports and a lot of wankers go there. Val Di'Annivers was brought to my attention as a possible place to buy

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For a man focused on the quick in and out, I'd skip MonteRosa. I had no idea I was doing a real estate review.
If access is a chalet factor as well as cost, what about Bourg St. Maurice, Oulx, Mallnitz, Zillertal, or Brixen all have train access or even Val Gardena/Wolkenstein which is a half hour bus ride/10 minute taxi from the train station.

[hafjell]

For a man focused on the quick in and out, I'd skip MonteRosa. I had no idea I was doing a real estate review.
If access is a chalet factor as well as cost, what about Bourg St. Maurice, Oulx, Mallnitz, Zillertal, or Brixen all have train access or even Val Gardena/Wolkenstein which is a half hour bus ride/10 minute taxi from the train station.

Can't speak to the French options although they sound excellent.
Would suggest Zillertal over Brixen or Wolkenstein. Direct flights from LGW to Innsbruck and you're home in 15 to 60 minutes. Dolomites would be 2:40 if everything went well. 30 minutes to an hour in a car from INN, and you'd be in most if not all of the better resorts in the Ztal.
For Brixen, you'd have to cab or bus for 20 minutes to the train station. Then train from Innsbruck to Brixen is 1:30 but you'd have good options between the Eurocity and the REX.
From Brixen to Selva/Wolkenstein it's 50 minutes.
From Laion (no EC access, just the REX) you'd be on the train for another 20 minutes. Remember, train has the advantage of restaurant/bar car, and ability to walk around.
If you planned on renting a car or car service, you could do it in 1:45 on a very good day.
Key to Italy from Innsbruck is the Brenner Pass which will be slow during holidays and storms. Train travel likely faster than a car. Even if weather is good, the tolls at the pass can really slow down the car traffic.
You could save time if you bought farther from the Sella (say Ortisei). Personally, I'd want to be as close as possible.
Would be very interested to hear what you find in both places. We've looked casually in Italy and did not find a lot of inventory.

[Rossymcg]

I'm old and ugly, can't you tell? Arrrgh.
I do have teenagers and a lovely wife who understands my ski fiendishness and her only failing is hooking up with me. Plus she rips.

For a man focused on the quick in and out, I'd skip MonteRosa. I had no idea I was doing a real estate review.
If access is a chalet factor as well as cost, what about Bourg St. Maurice, Oulx, Mallnitz, Zillertal, or Brixen all have train access or even Val Gardena/Wolkenstein which is a half hour bus ride/10 minute taxi from the train station.

Monterosa (also anywhere in the piedmonte)would be the ideal choice for me. Cheap flights in to Turin, an hour and half and in resort. I love Italy, the prices are good, the people, food, wine and coffee are good. The drama is the snow, I know when it's good in this region it's good (ie retour d'est), but when it's bad it's bbbbbaaaaaaddddd.
with us having to go at xmas (early) and easter (late) I need an area that has a sturdier snow record. I'm struggling to find that in Italy maybe passo tonale or livigno due to altitude and but they're cunts to get to

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[Buster Highmen]

Bormio/Livigno is not consistent early season. Like this last one. Xmas? Bzzzt.
How do you propose to get from Turin to MonteRosa? Public transport? Hmmm, it's pretty wobbly up that way. Plus I think retour d'est really hits further west than MonteRosa. Like the Milky Way/Oulx which has easy access via TGV.

I'd consider Engelberg or the Andermatt area, especially basing out of Gorschenen with easy access out of ZRH. It's CH, so expensive.

[Rossymcg]

Bormio/Livigno is not consistent early season. Like this last one. Xmas? Bzzzt.
How do you propose to get from Turin to MonteRosa? Public transport? Hmmm, it's pretty wobbly up that way. Plus I think retour d'est really hits further west than MonteRosa. Like the Milky Way/Oulx which has easy access via TGV.

I'd consider Engelberg or the Andermatt area, especially basing out of Gorschenen with easy access out of ZRH. It's CH, so expensive.

I presumed getting to campoluc et al would be the same as getting to the milkyway via public transport it would appear not with your comment. The milkyway would be a great area but very sketchy for snow. Have you skied there much? I've had some deep times but some real poor times

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[bobinch]

with us having to go at xmas (early) and easter (late) I need an area that has a sturdier snow record.

Considered Le Chable for Verbier and Bruson? You will never get bored of the skiing and the downhill mountain biking trails are fab in the Summer. Easy by train from GVA

Don’t believe the hype that it tracks out too fast / everyone’s a banker. More than enough space for everyone, cracking freeride vibe and long season - at its best in April. Not many places you share a cable car with Jeremie Heitz, Xavier de le Rue and Leo Slemett.

Swiss prices ain’t cheap but you are buying a piece of a world class playground

[Buster Highmen]

I presumed getting to campoluc et al would be the same as getting to the milkyway via public transport it would appear not with your comment. The milkyway would be a great area but very sketchy for snow. Have you skied there much? I've had some deep times but some real poor times

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Champoluc is only accessible by car or bus, similarly for Gressoney and Alagna.

I've probably skied a total of 15 days in the Milky Way, mostly at Montgenevre/Claviere/SanSicario sector. This is where we'd go when La Grave or Serre Che was skied out and I generally found great snow there, pow when Serre Che was skied out. They have awesome snowmaking so Xmas would be covered. If the snow sucks @ the Milky Way, it probably sucks all over the western alps.

It's one of the places I liked a lot because it's off the gnarista radar and had great skiing (up around Rocher de l'Aigle or skinning up the Janus).

[Buster Highmen]

Don’t believe the hype

[bobinch]

New Years Day, Bouquetin couloir Mont Gele. It was pretty disappointing to only be putting in the 2nd track...


January 2nd Bruson


Do you want me to Feb and April too?

[Buster Highmen]

I don't think you understand 'the hype' I'm trying to convey regarding Verbier, l'Espace Killy, Chamonix (any of which has a ton of untracked stuff at virtually any time) or any of the other mega resorts. Making a real estate and commitment decision which this seems to have evolved into is different from making a vacation decision where it started. Ah thread drift.

If doesn't bother you, great. Well done.

I regret I'm unable to convey my thoughts to you. I hope your knee heals swift and strong.

[bobinch]

I don't think you understand 'the hype' I'm trying to convey regarding Verbier, l'Espace Killy, Chamonix (any of which has a ton of untracked stuff at virtually any time) or any of the other mega resorts. Making a real estate and commitment decision which this seems to have evolved into is different from making a vacation decision where it started. Ah thread drift.

If doesn't bother you, great. Well done.

I regret I'm unable to convey my thoughts to you. I hope your knee heals swift and strong.

Thanks. One more weekend before the op. Fingers crossed it’s a good one.

For what it’s worth, we looked at Val d’Anniviers, mainly because it’s cheaper, but appreciate it’s also quieter, if far from undiscovered, but ended up buying in Verbier, because of the shorter drive and friends there, and it’s been one of the best lifestyle decisions we ever made. The more we get to know it the more we like it. The steep skiing options are just mind blowing once you know where you’re going and i’ve hooked up with many like minded skiers. It’s also a lot of fun at night.

Appreciate there is a flash aspect, that isn’t appealing to all, but it’s not hard to avoid, especially if you go regularly and get to know it.

Appreciate you have visited several of the big resorts and come to your own conclusions which is cool. I’m also a big fan of smaller places - especially La Grave, even if still to hit it in top condition - and Serre Chevalier would probably be a decent option with kids.

Le Chable has a more laid back vibe than Verbier, is significant cheaper for property and has equally good ski access, even better for Bruson. I know a couple of people who bought apartments there and love it. Like I said, I think it’s worth considering.

But yes thread drift...

[Rossymcg]

nothing wrong with a good thread drift, especially after 3 years.
Bob, did your decision for verbs come about from a commercial point of view as well as a personal one(holiday makers and rental)?
how would you say the snow holds in Val D'Anniviers strong late in to the season and not to
temperamental early doors?

To be honest it would be great to have an apartment in one of the big areas but cost is a factor, We want to be able to keep the life style we have in the UK without a ski apartment being a noticeable financial burden. Taking in to consideration how much we spend on ski trips and how much a mortgage etc would be on an apartment in a smaller cheaper area, I could very easily break even.

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[bobinch]

nothing wrong with a good thread drift, especially after 3 years.
Bob, did your decision for verbs come about from a commercial point of view as well as a personal one(holiday makers and rental)?
how would you say the snow holds in Val D'Anniviers strong late in to the season and not to
temperamental early doors?

To be honest it would be great to have an apartment in one of the big areas but cost is a factor, We want to be able to keep the life style we have in the UK without a ski apartment being a noticeable financial burden. Taking in to consideration how much we spend on ski trips and how much a mortgage etc would be on an apartment in a smaller cheaper area, I could very easily break even.

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It didn’t but we have rented it out when not using this year, which has more than covered the costs. Mortgage rates are rock bottom (1%) in CH if you can get one. It is a very safe, if unspectacular investment. PM me if you want more info.

Val D’Anniviers is primarily North facing from memory and so should hold the snow well. Central Valais is probably similar to Verbier for snowfall which is pretty good although not sure how long their season is - probably doesn’t matter if you stick to school holidays (Verbier usually opens early/mid Nov at weekends which is great for us and we have had some memorable November powder days!).

Don’t forget the Summer. Downhill mountain biking has been an unexpected bonus! Grimentz is the finish for the Grand Raid, although not sure if it has downhill trails? We have 2 young kids, 6 and 7, and they literally roam around on their bikes like they own the town - CH is pretty cool (and safe) for kids.

[garyfromterrace]

Don't know shit about Val d'Annivers except what I've read and pals have spewed. When there's a decent base, it's supposed to be rad. That whole area and Arolla is high on my list to hit but likely later in the year since Arolla blows when it's storming.

a.

I skied at Zinal this year and it was amazing. Shit tons of wickedly good terrain. We were skiing it 3 days after a dump and there was so much still untracked.

Skied my second week long trip to Arolla this year too. The place is phenomenal. Surface lifts only, no big fancy lodges or restaurants, infinite possibilities for those inclined to tour. Way more snow this year than last made for a perfect trip, numerous coolies were slayed.

It could be Shames' Euro sister ski area, in fact I'm going to work on that.

All in all, that area is wonderful.

[hafjell]

Skied my second week long trip to Arolla this year too. The place is phenomenal. Surface lifts only, no big fancy lodges or restaurants, infinite possibilities for those inclined to tour..

Great to hear the details about Arolla. Do you get tired on drag lifts all day?



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[garyfromterrace]

Great to hear the details about Arolla. Do you get tired on drag lifts all day?
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We've stayed at an apartment with another 2 couples and a couple of kids. Cost was about 300 euros for the week. Lift tickets were about 240 euro for 7 days.

No one, I mean no one was skiing here. We had the place to ourselves, no crazy ass groomer runs fulled with drunk germans/scandis/austrians coming at you at mach chicken. The backcountry is infinite, the Haute Route runs above the ski area. Certain backcountry zones get skied but you are guaranteed fresh snow, days after a dump because of the lack of people.

Drag lifts are fine, you just let the thing drag you up. Personally, I've never been tired because of the lifts (and I ride a snowboard some days too), I'm tired because I've skied a shit ton.

Arolla is a wonderful place to go with kids, it's a wonderful place to go if you're a ski tourer (magic if you are a parent and you ski tour). It is not the place to go if you want a glitzy resort with amenities. If you aren't a tourer, you'd probably get a bit bored of the hill by the end of a week (depending on snow conditions of course, I could see that with 30cms a day, I may be pretty happy skiing the lifts all day, traversing/hiking a bit and not skiing the backcountry too much due to fear of death...).

I have a very good German buddy who has skied all over the world and he's been here for the last 9 years without any consideration of going anywhere else for a family ski week. One of his buddies has been coming here yearly for about 30 years. It's out of the way for most ski destination people, they're driving past some of the greatest ski areas in the world, most people just stop at one of those. These days I would suggest that my buddy and his crew (probably totaling about 20- 25 skiers including kids), comprises about 25% of the ski population at the ski area during their week.

The place isn't for everyone. In a whiteout, there's not a glut of tree skiing, however I've skied at least 4 no viz days and have always found great skiing either in the trees or with good route finding and skiing couloirs. Again, lack of amenities on the hill - however the place we've stayed at the last 2 years is ski in/ski out so ripping in for lunch is a good option. Personally I love eating at one of the 3 little lodges on hill (used to be 2 but now there's a yurt that serves food too), the rosti is amazing, the raclette is wondrous and there was another thing... I forget... awesome too. The white wine served at the little huts will make you want to marry a Swiss girl and stay there.

Happy to answer any more specific questions if you have them. I love Arolla.

[Mr. Mike]

I skied 3 days in V d'A this January and really enjoyed it. It would tick Buster's boxes, but not everyone's. Grimentz and Zinal (lift linked) have more north facing terrain and hold the snow better than St. Luc/Chandolin (linked also) across the valley. in the winter, all 4 are relatively sleepy places. It's about a 30 minute drive across the valley or approximately an hour by bus with 1 change most of the day, although I think there is 1 morning and evening express (I had a car and was leaving V d'A the day I crossed the valley, so I just drove). There are a limited number of hotel and dining options on both sides of the valley. Great food, but you won't be slammed with choice. If you were willing to do some cooking and shopping, it could be done about as cheaply as you can possibly do CH.

We combined it with a big, popular place (PDS), so had 2 very different experiences on 1 trip. I enjoyed them both a lot, but I'm almost always happy when skiing.

Buster: have you checked out the Swiss Magic Pass? I can't get there enough to justify buying a pass (yet), but it appears an incredible value that is focused on the less famous Swiss resorts.

[Buster Highmen]

Great to hear the details about Arolla. Do you get tired on drag lifts all day?



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We've stayed at an apartment with another 2 couples and a couple of kids. Cost was about 300 euros for the week. Lift tickets were about 240 euro for 7 days.

No one, I mean no one was skiing here. We had the place to ourselves, no crazy ass groomer runs fulled with drunk germans/scandis/austrians coming at you at mach chicken. The backcountry is infinite, the Haute Route runs above the ski area. Certain backcountry zones get skied but you are guaranteed fresh snow, days after a dump because of the lack of people.

Drag lifts are fine, you just let the thing drag you up. Personally, I've never been tired because of the lifts (and I ride a snowboard some days too), I'm tired because I've skied a shit ton.

Arolla is a wonderful place to go with kids, it's a wonderful place to go if you're a ski tourer (magic if you are a parent and you ski tour). It is not the place to go if you want a glitzy resort with amenities. If you aren't a tourer, you'd probably get a bit bored of the hill by the end of a week (depending on snow conditions of course, I could see that with 30cms a day, I may be pretty happy skiing the lifts all day, traversing/hiking a bit and not skiing the backcountry too much due to fear of death...).

I have a very good German buddy who has skied all over the world and he's been here for the last 9 years without any consideration of going anywhere else for a family ski week. One of his buddies has been coming here yearly for about 30 years. It's out of the way for most ski destination people, they're driving past some of the greatest ski areas in the world, most people just stop at one of those. These days I would suggest that my buddy and his crew (probably totaling about 20- 25 skiers including kids), comprises about 25% of the ski population at the ski area during their week.

The place isn't for everyone. In a whiteout, there's not a glut of tree skiing, however I've skied at least 4 no viz days and have always found great skiing either in the trees or with good route finding and skiing couloirs. Again, lack of amenities on the hill - however the place we've stayed at the last 2 years is ski in/ski out so ripping in for lunch is a good option. Personally I love eating at one of the 3 little lodges on hill (used to be 2 but now there's a yurt that serves food too), the rosti is amazing, the raclette is wondrous and there was another thing... I forget... awesome too. The white wine served at the little huts will make you want to marry a Swiss girl and stay there.

Happy to answer any more specific questions if you have them. I love Arolla.

When did you go Gary? Did you do a few days @ Grimentz-Zinal, then go to Arolla? Private car or public transport?

Buster: have you checked out the Swiss Magic Pass? I can't get there enough to justify buying a pass (yet), but it appears an incredible value that is focused on the less famous Swiss resorts.

I've read about it but haven't bought one. In years past, I've gone further East. Sure seems like a great value if one did the Grimentz-Zinal to Arolla circuit over a week+ time which is a target for the next year or so.

[Foggy_Goggles]

[blows off invoicing, starts google mapping and bergfexing]

Buster, make time for Canada next year. I gots the IKON pass and we've got a week at Vallhalla something or other.

I hope this is not being not humble.