Spec. Enduro vs Bronson Vs Yeti S5 or 6 vs ?

[grinch]

X3 fit 1st. Geo is part of fit along with intended use

[Phall]

How tall are you? I have a Tallboy LTc XO1 complete I'll sell you for $3600 shipped to jackson, ridden July-October. It's an XL though.

[biggins]

Sorry if I've offended you biggins.

Not at all. Just feeling snarky- been laid up with a busted leg and staring at my Bronson, dreaming of summer is what is getting me through. No offense taken. Opinions are like assholes...

Myself, I like the ride of a 27.5 Bluronson. My best day ever was a 9 hour Kingdom Trails epic on a rental BlurLT- the Bronson took me right back to that day, but with bigger hoops and a lighter set-up. It fits me well, climbs faaaaar better than any ride I've ever had, and rails downhill for my big, clod-hopper self. It suits the rooty-rocky tech of the NE and gives me the travel to compensate for some occasionally (often) clumsy bike-handling. But that's just me, and I guess that's the main thrust of the advice in this thread- figure out what works for you by riding a few different geos, suspension platforms and even sizes (took me multiple rides on L and XL Bronsons and 5010s to settle on an XL Bronson).

[jono]

I wouldn't disagree with geometry first, but suspension tune is more important than it gets credit for, too. Just another reason to ride before you buy because subtle differences can be important to you. Shock ratio throughout travel + force curve and damping are not generally even available on charts, and most of the time that's a good thing.

[JeffreyJim]

I wouldn't disagree with geometry first, but suspension tune is more important than it gets credit for, too. Just another reason to ride before you buy because subtle differences can be important to you. Shock ratio throughout travel + force curve and damping are not generally even available on charts, and most of the time that's a good thing.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/

Its out there if you want it. Problem is 90% of people won't be able to get much of value from this.

A shock must be tuned to work with a specific platform. Plus, there is no "best" platform or tune. It is all about what you want the bike to do best. Sometimes antisquat is good. Other times its not. Sometimes a flat leverage ratio curve is ideal. Other times progressive is best.

I'm way off topic now but all the bikes the gentleman in question is looking at are awesome. Without really geeking out on the numbers, the DW link is going to feel a bit dead with high antisquat properties. The Kona will feel lively with worse antisquat. The Enduro and Transition (FSR) stuff somewhere in the middle along with the VPP stuff. All work great. (I know I'm generalizing a shit ton here)

Perhaps the only thing to really be aware of is when you do go demo a few PSI or clicks of compression/rebound can make a big difference in suspenson feel. Pay more attention to fit and how the bike responds to your inputs. Pay attention to your position on the bike, how it corners, how it feels when manipulating the bike. Yes, suspension plays into all of this but it's impossible to think you'll 100% perfectly tuned suspension setup while demoing. Again, I'd rather take the bike that fits awesome and tune suspensino from there (as there is a ton on the table in the tuning department) then try and "tune" fit...


Also, do your best to keep your tires at the same PSI as this too has a major implication on the overall ride.

[scrublover]

I'll pile on the SOLO/5010 love. They are very, very capable bikes. Way more than I am as a rider. It's stupid fun to ride in lots of places, up, down, sideways, whatever.

Caveat: mine is running 26" wheels and a 26" 150mm Pike - slackens the HTA closer to 67* and offsets the lower BB from the smaller wheels by a touch.
If you want yours a touch slacker than the 68*, you can bump the fork up a touch, though obviously then you raise the BB a bit. Could also stick an angled headset in though.

Bonus is availability in an alu model if you want or need to save some bucks and put more $$ into the rest of the build.

If I needed a new bike RIGHT NOW though, would probably walk into one of the local Kona dealers and come out with one of the Process 134 bikes.

[creaky fossil]

5.Spot frames for cheap at Turner

[jono]

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/

Its out there if you want it. Problem is 90% of people won't be able to get much of value from this.

Exactly. And even with the linkage knowledge the exact figures for shocks are much harder to track down IME.

[Lindahl]

I dunno, I've found changes in suspension tuning to play a very minor role in overall bike feel. I can change the psi up or down a bit and play with the dials a little, and the way the suspension rides still seems to have the same character as before. I haven't played with a CCDB or air sleeves before, though.

[jono]

I guess I should clarify that I'm including things in "tuning" that aren't readily changeable by the user. I think Yeti did a fair bit of work to make the SB5 shock and linkage work together, for example. It's remarkably easy to change the leverage ratio curve at the design stage, but afterwards you're stuck with modifying the shock to get what you want the other way around and the range of possibilities goes way down.

[Pegleg]

I don't know nothin' about nothin', especially compared to the folks posting in this thread. But I owned a Bronson C for a while last spring/summer, and just couldn't love it. It was fun on the downhills, but not as fun as I'd hoped, and compared to my previous ride (a Giant Trance X2 26er) it felt like kind of a pig on the climbs. I sold it after a few months and ended up with an Ibis Ripley with a Pike and DBAir. No comparison - the Ripley is way, way more fun for my kind of riding (combination of XC and AM, with occasional trips to Moab and Fruita for more gnar). Feels way faster than the Bronson both up and down, and just as nimble. I'm 6'0" and 200lbs, FWIW.

And I'm no racer, but a 1X drivetrain with a 30T ring in front gets me up anything that a 2X would with no noticable loss on the top end. I'm sold, never going back to a front derailleur.

[hitek79]

I'm still riding my 2009 Nomad, and love it, but I had a chance to ride my friend's Bronson recently on a few 15ish mile rides and was blown away. I still love my Nomad, and really have no reason to upgrade, but I would buy a Bronson without a second thought. It climbed really really well, and descended much better than I expected. That being said, I'm sure everyone makes a really capable bike.

[hitek79]

One other thing. I just want to get on my bike and have it ride well. I don't want to spend endless hours finding the right shock and spend hours fiddling with the suspension, or dialing in the fit. Santa Cruz bikes have always fit me well, and ridden great with minimal effort.

[JeffreyJim]

I don't know nothin' about nothin', especially compared to the folks posting in this thread. But I owned a Bronson C for a while last spring/summer, and just couldn't love it. It was fun on the downhills, but not as fun as I'd hoped, and compared to my previous ride (a Giant Trance X2 26er) it felt like kind of a pig on the climbs. I sold it after a few months and ended up with an Ibis Ripley with a Pike and DBAir. No comparison - the Ripley is way, way more fun for my kind of riding (combination of XC and AM, with occasional trips to Moab and Fruita for more gnar). Feels way faster than the Bronson both up and down, and just as nimble. I'm 6'0" and 200lbs, FWIW.

And I'm no racer, but a 1X drivetrain with a 30T ring in front gets me up anything that a 2X would with no noticable loss on the top end. I'm sold, never going back to a front derailleur.

SAR This may apply to you more directly than you know.

Also, I too agree - if you can't climb it with a 30/42 you probably aren't climbing it at all at that point.... Just my experience.

[JeffreyJim]

I dunno, I've found changes in suspension tuning to play a very minor role in overall bike feel. I can change the psi up or down a bit and play with the dials a little, and the way the suspension rides still seems to have the same character as before. I haven't played with a CCDB or air sleeves before, though.

For a lot of us, yeah, you are right. After riding bikes for most of my life, yeah I can tell if I pull PSI out or add PSI. But I'm bullshitting you if I say "2 clicks of LSC totally changed the ride".

That said I do get to go to Sea Otter as a Faux Fox Factory Pro. I'll get the full treatment and let you all know how much it *really* matters...

[biggins]

That said I do get to go to Sea Otter as a Faux Fox Factory Pro. I'll get the full treatment and let you all know how much it *really* matters...

That. Is cool. TR please.

[sar13]

Thanks for all the great info. Conclusion at this point is that I should keep riding my 575 and demo everything I can (which I basically knew but wanted to chat). Also, I'm leaning more towards drinking the 1X Kool Aide. Keep the info coming. Maybe this thread will help other jongs like me...

[toast2266]

Also, I'm leaning more towards drinking the 1X Kool Aide. Keep the info coming. Maybe this thread will help other jongs like me...

You definitely should drink that Kool Aid. It's just better- 95% of the gear range, but it's quieter, less missed shifts, less clutter on the bar, weight savings, etc. On a new bike, I see no reason not to do it.

If you're worried about gear range, there's a thread floating around here where it was discussed. Basically, a 30/42 (which is the normal SRAM 1x11 easy gear) is only a marginally more difficult gear than a 24/36 (the easiest gear combo on most 10 speed setups), and it's easier than a 24/32 (the second easiest gear on most 10 speed setups). And if that's still too difficult, you can drop down to a 28t ring, which would give you an identical easy gear as a 24/36 setup

[FlimFlamvanHam]

You could always get a Rocky Mountain Altitude (6") or a Thunderbolt (5").

They have that "Ride9" chip in the front shock mount that lets you change the bike's head angle (in conjunction with seat angle and BB height, wheelbase...bla bla bla) so you can configure the bike to be much like the Bronson (angle wise) to about a degree slacker to a degree steeper and everything in between.

Anyway, the '15 Thunderbolt is getting a lot of press love and might be worth checking out.

[jm2e]

I find all this love for shorter travel bikes perplexing. For me, 160mm of travel is a continuing love affair.
I didn't even think that the Solo or the P134 were options for me given the Bronson, Nomad, P153 sitting right next to them. But I'm not a very skilled rider, and I'm a set it and forget it suspension consumer.

[biggins]

Though its a bit heavier than most in the 6" class (which is a non-issue for me @ 235-240lbs), the Process 153dl is a very nice build for the cost (which is still $5K) and people are loving theirs here in VT. If it weren't too long for me, I would have been all about that bike.

I'll 2nd that 6" is my chosen boo. Hard to imagine more fun on less travel. But what do I know. Bikes these days are amazing in the ride they provide. I feel like most bikes over $3K (which is still a lot of money in the grand scheme of things) are pretty magical.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

I find all this love for shorter travel bikes perplexing. For me, 160mm of travel is a continuing love affair.
I didn't even think that the Solo or the P134 were options for me given the Bronson, Nomad, P153 sitting right next to them. But I'm not a very skilled rider, and I'm a set it and forget it suspension consumer.

Could not agree more. Frankly it's a load of bullshit to me and living and riding in North Van i have zero interest in shorter travel than 150/160. However, it's pretty nasty out here. In an area without much technical nastiness I could certainly see their place.

[D(C)]

Could not agree more. Frankly it's a load of bullshit to me and living and riding in North Van i have zero interest in shorter travel than 150/160. However, it's pretty nasty out here. In an area without much technical nastiness I could certainly see their place.

You'd be surprised with what a shorter travel bike with good geometry can get you down. Buying an AM hardtail was enlightening. Riding Cypress on my Process 134 feels great.

Everything is a trade-off. Shorter travel is less forgiving, but easier to manoeuvre the bike since you're not overcoming a bunch of sag when you want to pop the bike around.

[JeffreyJim]

Could not agree more. Frankly it's a load of bullshit to me and living and riding in North Van i have zero interest in shorter travel than 150/160. However, it's pretty nasty out here. In an area without much technical nastiness I could certainly see their place.

I think a lot of it depends on how good of a rider you are and what type of rider you are. I'm not that good relative to a "real" pro. I'm also big. I feel like this combination makes for bigger bikes to "feel" like less and maybe be more appropriate for me.

On the contrary SAR is lighter and not riding super gnarly shit. 130ish is ideal for him.

Plus, I've raced/ridden the Ripley down legit DH stuff without issue. Less margin for error but a lot more snap. If you are on your game less is more (see: Nico)

[creaky fossil]

I think the idea that 135mm travel is too little and 150/160 is necessary is a mental construct for most riders. Since there's a mental side to cycling, if something makes you more comfortable/confident it's an advantage mentally which probably makes riding more fun/better. Might even make you faster uphill when you're feeling weak physically if the mental side is huge to you. On the other hand if you like being technically challenged, shorter travel may be more fun. What are the experiences of the people you ride with, who have tried various travels in the trail bike segment? I've had the "too much bike" experience and I enjoy that a lot less than the "too little bike" experience. Maybe that makes me more a masochist than a voice of experience.