Dynafit Khion: Dynafit creates another...

**detrusor** · 12-11-2015, 01:51 PM

Skied my khion carbons yesterday for the first time. Pretty impressed with a couple exceptions.

First the damn boa thing jammed first day. Couldn't get out of the boot at the end of the day. I'll be bringing g the tool with me from now on!

Second, these are damn near impossible to get on. Have to put foot in love net then liner in boot. Not the end of the world just a PIA.

Skiing w kids on groomers, skied well, flex pretty progressive. I didn't miss a power strap. Responsive for sure. Fit my narrow feet and tiny ankles very well with adequate I step room.

I'm pleased.

**SiSt** · 12-12-2015, 08:16 AM

Tested the khion (non-carbon) today in the shop, and found there to be an issue with the magnesium spoiler slipping out and over the lower where it rests on the plastic. Shop will take the issue to the importer, so I'm holding on the boot for now. This was in size 28 and seemed more prominent on the left but than the right. Tested on two pairs, both had the same issue.

Otherwise I'm impressed.

**LeeLau** · 12-12-2015, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by SiSt

Tested the khion (non-carbon) today in the shop, and found there to be an issue with the magnesium spoiler slipping out and over the lower where it rests on the plastic. Shop will take the issue to the importer, so I'm holding on the boot for now. This was in size 28 and seemed more prominent on the left but than the right. Tested on two pairs, both had the same issue.

Otherwise I'm impressed.

is that if you flex the boot forward enough? I have pre production and production and there's a removeable stop in the forefoot which should prevent that in theory as far as I can see. But I'm probably not heavy enough to flex that far forward in practise.

Been skiing the boot 12 times now. Skis like an overlap. At least as good as the Cochise Pro light which, to me, was previously the AT boot I held out as the best feeling AT boot for pure skiing experience. Tour mode for Khion is not as good as Vulcan but that's the compromise. Khion does not have the harshness of Vulcan which is the tradeoff

**SiSt** · 12-12-2015, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

is that if you flex the boot forward enough? I have pre production and production and there's a removeable stop in the forefoot which should prevent that in theory as far as I can see. But I'm probably not heavy enough to flex that far forward in practise.

Been skiing the boot 12 times now. Skis like an overlap. At least as good as the Cochise Pro light which, to me, was previously the AT boot I held out as the best feeling AT boot for pure skiing experience. Tour mode for Khion is not as good as Vulcan but that's the compromise. Khion does not have the harshness of Vulcan which is the tradeoff

Yup.

I'm about 85kgs, but this didn't take a lot of force. At first, I thought it was the upper slipping over the flex stop, but after some consideration, it turned out to be otherwise. Feels like a sudden drop in stiffness, with a slight clicking sound.

The boots had the walk mechanism mod in place, so they're some of the latest from the factory.

The left side of the magnesium spoiler was significantly less precisely joined to the lower than the right side sticking out about 1,5mm from the lower. Either it's an alignment issue with the lower, or the magnesium part is slightly asymmetrical.

**gregL** · 12-12-2015, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by daught

Wait, which salomon is super narrow?

The MTN Lab isn't that narrow unless you are comparing it to the fairly wide forefoot measurements of the Vulcan/Mercury or the Maestrale(s). It's a nominal 98mm last but fits more like a 100, very similar to a X Max last (with a less cushy liner). I skied the boot for 3 hours without modification at the intro event last year with my 103-104mm wide foot. Instep height is also much more relaxed than the TLT6 or Vulcan.

**smooth operator** · 12-12-2015, 11:49 AM

vulcan looks wider in the forefoot, or is that just an optical illusion?

**verbier61** · 12-14-2015, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by smooth operator

vulcan looks wider in the forefoot, or is that just an optical illusion?

vulcan has more plastic in the forefoot, not more room inside. Or at least this is what I remember from the time I tested both

**JKlompus** · 12-15-2015, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by SiSt

Tested the khion (non-carbon) today in the shop, and found there to be an issue with the magnesium spoiler slipping out and over the lower where it rests on the plastic. Shop will take the issue to the importer, so I'm holding on the boot for now. This was in size 28 and seemed more prominent on the left but than the right. Tested on two pairs, both had the same issue.

Otherwise I'm impressed.

Same issue with my khion carbons. Left boot with upgraded part installed. Sent a video to dyna n.a but they say without the boot to test there's nothing they can do...

**LeeLau** · 12-25-2015, 06:01 PM

I think I answered some questions and missed others,. I might have already answered some

Up to 20 days on them now so more confidence in the answers

Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Compare the performance and ease of use (both up and down) to the Vulcan.

Performance down - slight edge to Khion. Up - big edge to Vulcan

Originally Posted by mtnwriter

Questions:

Ski feel - how did they handle specific skis and conditions?

Flex - do they have a smoother flex pattern that defines GOOD overlap boots? Gold standard to me is the Krypton Pro as far as even flex.

Overall foot feel? Last? Toe and heel width?

Looking at the lean lock, my biggest question is whether there is a forward lean adjustment for multiple angles?

Thanks.

Comparisons to freedom / vulcan / Mercury / maestrale would be helpful.

New freedom and MTN lab would be amazing but I'm sure are still very early.

They handled all skis well but particularly bigger skis at speed. They are so stiff that using them on smaller skis at slow speeds everything feels kind of dead.

Way smoother flex pattern. As good a flex pattern (in the sense of smooth power transmission as the Tecnica Cochise which I would previously have said were the best/most-alpine feeling AT boot

Fits middle to wide average feet well. Much more anatomical than the previous Dynafit boot of comparable construction (Titan./ZZeus). Much more anatomical. Pebax should be easily fitted. I had one punch at the right toe and it held well. Tight heel pocket so those with big heels or who get cramped easily there might need a punch. I subb'ed in an Intuition liner as even with a cook the stock boa liner hurt when touring.

No adjustable lean lock

Originally Posted by LiveLarger

Question:
How does it ski and tour compared to a Cochise pro light. I would assume it tours better and ski worse?

Tours better. Skis at least as well. Compared to a Cochise 120 from last year fyi

Originally Posted by Graham

Will the Merc/Vulc/RS stay in their own category, while the Khion/MTN Lab bridge the gap between the former and Cochise Pro/Lupo TI/Freedom RS?

I'm really wondering what the Khion vs. the Vulc/Merc will be like. "More of an overlap feel" - does that mean that it'll be stiffer everywhere, with more of an even or progressive flex?
.

Correct. But not really noticeably stiffer. Just more of a useable stiffness in terms of progressive control. Not as on-off as the Vulcan/Mercury

**retirwntm** · 12-25-2015, 07:23 PM

Thanks Lee. That pretty much answers my questions and resolves where I'm going.

**detrusor** · 12-29-2015, 10:10 AM

Which intuition liners would you guys put in the khions? The ones in there are kind of sucking balls. A step in the right direction but not all that usable...

**LeeLau** · 12-29-2015, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by detrusor

Which intuition liners would you guys put in the khions? The ones in there are kind of sucking balls. A step in the right direction but not all that usable...

I tried both Luxury Liners and ProTours that were cooked for my feet in Vulcans. They both felt good. Easier to get in and out of the liners than the Boa liners

**Cocximus** · 12-30-2015, 02:11 PM

Interesting boots. Heel hold is comparable to the TLT6 for me. I find them easier to get in than any tongue style boot. The stock liner is great. Pretty snug and it's very pronounced over the achilles tendon to improve hold. Problem is 260 stock liner is impossibly tight at the toes. Zipfits are perfect. Any chance I can bake the stock liner a lot? I have a pinkie shell fit, could the stock liner ever work? I could just use the zipfits but they are not ideal for multi day tours.

**XXX-er** · 01-03-2016, 02:32 PM

I went to MEC on a crazy busy day to check out the Khion and mtn lab, MEC had no more mtn labs no carbon Khions but they did have the womens Khion so wtf, being a Vulcan/Mercury fan boy I will compro between them

I did get in the boot with the liner still in the shell but I found the Khion ALMOST impossible to get into, the boa string was super long but still they were much harder to get into than a Vulcan, the little booklet zap-strapped to the boot sez you need to put the liner on then get into the boot. A newbie girl sitting next to me was trying on same size scarpas so I let her try the Khion but she gave up and just handed the boot back ...might not be a popular selling feature?

I take a 24 Vulcan and the 24 Khion seems to fit well in the heel/instep for a narrow heel/chicken ankle, I duno if the Carbon model uses the same mold as the womens, maybe I would need a punch in the toe for my wide/flat forefoot

buckles are some kind of plastick with captured ladders, so while they look kinda cheap they do seem to work OK, instep buckle has a nifty adjuster barrel on the cable ... this would have been nice on the Vulcan!

Flex wise the Khion was much less harsh than a Mercury or Vulcan so while the chick model was pretty easy for my manly self to crush the feel was progressive 4 buckle alpine as opposed to the on/off Vulcan.

Much less forward ROM than what you can get out of the Vulcan with a tongued liner & the plastic tongue removed, probably still less than a Vulcan with a power wrap

at a glance the liner doesn't look too bad come to think of it I don't remember the liner bothering my high instep the way Vulcan liners do it seems to have some kind of snowboardboot-like boa cord which might be better than say the boa system on the BD boots

SO what do I think? the big one for me would be the Khion has the progressive flex but I do walk uphill a fair amount and progressive flex comes with loss of ROM, I don't seem to mind the stiff on/off action of the Vulcan but then I don't know any better, I'm ambivilent on the liner it does at least appear to work for me as opposed to the Vulcan liner which sucks dead goats but as always hey Dynafit instead of trying to reinvent the wheel ...why not just go intuition?

Dynafit makes a small enough Carbon Khion so it could work, thro in a powerwrap and I would be looking at $$$$ ... happy I chose the Vulcan upgrade!

**SiSt** · 01-04-2016, 01:45 AM

Anyone else experience the issues with the magnesium spoiler? Still awaiting a response from dyna, my contact at the shop would talk to the developers directly some time early this week, hoping to hear something soon.

**Cocximus** · 01-04-2016, 01:20 PM

MEC just got them back in stock and they sell for $699. Also the TLT6P $790 and vipecs for $390. Dirt cheap considering how low the CAD is.

**XXX-er** · 01-04-2016, 01:50 PM

Yeah I was at the Vangroovy store on saturday, huge lineups at returns/change rooms/ ski service and lotsa product on sale, some boots are not available in store but might be available on web, its easy to click/check, but in any case MEC is around 50% of the Canuck market so its interesting to look at what is NOT on sale, I see 27% off both the Khion's which I see as the boot that should be king after the death of the mighty Vulcan, does this mean they are not selling?

was the TLT5/TLT6 ever cheaper than the Vulcan?

was the Vulcan ever anything less that full price at the beginning of a ski season ?

Yeah 34% off but IMO anybody interested in the vipec has a computer and knows they should wait for the black ...interesting times eh?

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-04-2016, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by daught

MEC just got them back in stock and they sell for $699. Also the TLT6P $790 and vipecs for $390. Dirt cheap considering how low the CAD is.

I'm wondering if it's only the white version of the Vipec, or if the web photo isn't current. Looking at some of the other binding prices, I'm guessing that they're clearing out the white versions. Anyone know for sure? Not that it matters to me, 'coz they don't export South of the border ;-)

Cheers,
Thom

**XXX-er** · 01-04-2016, 02:54 PM

Boot wall is right next to the binding wall and so the Vipec looked pretty white to me

**Cocximus** · 01-04-2016, 05:45 PM

Dunno, is that black really worth the extra $200? The only major improvement is step in.

**Lindahl** · 01-04-2016, 06:40 PM

And icing issue resolved, and ease of exit, and better elasticity. But yeah, alot of it is pretty much ease of use. I'll upgrade when a deal comes along, but sticking with the whites till then.

**Cocximus** · 01-04-2016, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

And icing issue resolved, and ease of exit, and better elasticity. But yeah, alot of it is pretty much ease of use. I'll upgrade when a deal comes along, but sticking with the whites till then.

From what I read the icing issue was resolved with the whites. Were there any icing issues with the whites? No mention of changes that further protect against icing.

**selle** · 01-05-2016, 03:02 AM

The white ones have also been upgraded again this year (e.g. with the icing issue fix)... The black one has a different spring setup in the toe (better elasticity?) and is TUV-certified, thus more expensive.

**smooth operator** · 01-05-2016, 06:51 AM

Tried both a vulcan and a Khion MS on today. Khion fits more relaxed in the mid foot, where the vulcan is pretty tight over the instep and at the sides. In the toes, I'd say they are comparable. For my wide foot, the Khion feels better. Couldnt say much about the flex cause I'd have to move the khion buckles to the tighter slot to make them fit well. I ski a 25 in tecnica cochise but tried both Vulcan and Khion in 26. Anybody here use the same size in cochise and Khion or do you size up? Was just a brief test so no time for shell fit.