Looking for a new Katana - what ski am I?

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-23-2016, 10:32 AM

We already discussed this, but thanks for the pointless bump.

**One (+) Sentence** · 02-23-2016, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

We already discussed this, but thanks for the pointless bump.

I imagine none of your 15,000 posts have been pointless?

**Stewy30** · 02-24-2016, 02:00 PM

4frnt devastator, blizzard gunsmoke, on3p Jeffrey 114 are my vote. If groomer performance is a little more important I'd say gunsmoke.

**counterfeitfake** · 02-26-2016, 09:33 AM

See Blizzard Zero G 108 thread maybe?

**TahoeJ** · 02-26-2016, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by counterfeitfake

See Blizzard Zero G 108 thread maybe?

I hear that ski rips considering it's a BC ski that weighs under 8 pounds, but no way is it going to be a Katana replacement.

**Smails** · 02-26-2016, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I hear that ski rips considering it's a BC ski that weighs under 8 pounds, but no way is it going to be a Katana replacement.

I agree... In fairness I haven't skied it, but I have skied the Scout, which the Zero G 108 replaced and it's not even close from a stability standpoint.

I've also been searching for a Katana replacement for a long time. Actually, my search really isn't to replace that 184 Katana, it's to find something damper with a slightly softer front end. At the moment, skiing the Mantra on hard days and on soft days the Shiro - which is tons more versatile then you'd think - has been my solution.

I tried the Patron. Epic fail. I tried the 3 Zero. Nice ski, skis a little shorter in the 183 length, mounting point was a little too progressive for me even mounted behind the back line. I own the Kastle FX104 but I turned that into my touring ski. Nice ski, could stand for some slight early rise in the tail. . . . that ski is the new BMX 105 HP but the 181 and 189 lengths don't work. Thought about the 185 BMX 115 but didn't pull the trigger. The 4frnt Devastator is high on my list. However, my latest shot is the Black Crows Corvus 183.3. Mounting these pink bastards up this weekend and will report back. I more optimistic about these than any other ski I've tried. We'll see.

All that said, Volkl may have ended this problem once and for all with the new Concession. 186 length, 117 under foot, metal, a little camber.... could be great!?

**irul&ublo** · 02-26-2016, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by One Sentence

I imagine none of your 15,000 posts have been pointless?

**Smails** · 02-26-2016, 01:11 PM

Making this thread about skiing again . . .

Originally Posted by Smails

I agree... In fairness I haven't skied it, but I have skied the Scout, which the Zero G 108 replaced and it's not even close from a stability standpoint.

I've also been searching for a Katana replacement for a long time. Actually, my search really isn't to replace that 184 Katana, it's to find something damper with a slightly softer front end. At the moment, skiing the Mantra on hard days and on soft days the Shiro - which is tons more versatile then you'd think - has been my solution.

I tried the Patron. Epic fail. I tried the 3 Zero. Nice ski, skis a little shorter in the 183 length, mounting point was a little too progressive for me even mounted behind the back line. I own the Kastle FX104 but I turned that into my touring ski. Nice ski, could stand for some slight early rise in the tail. . . . that ski is the new BMX 105 HP but the 181 and 189 lengths don't work. Thought about the 185 BMX 115 but didn't pull the trigger. The 4frnt Devastator is high on my list. However, my latest shot is the Black Crows Corvus 183.3. Mounting these pink bastards up this weekend and will report back. I more optimistic about these than any other ski I've tried. We'll see.

All that said, Volkl may have ended this problem once and for all with the new Concession. 186 length, 117 under foot, metal, a little camber.... could be great!?

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 02-26-2016, 01:47 PM

http://www.downskis.com/shop/ltd-showdown-115m-2015

**smooth operator** · 02-26-2016, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Smails

I agree... In fairness I haven't skied it, but I have skied the Scout, which the Zero G 108 replaced and it's not even close from a stability standpoint.

I've also been searching for a Katana replacement for a long time. Actually, my search really isn't to replace that 184 Katana, it's to find something damper with a slightly softer front end. At the moment, skiing the Mantra on hard days and on soft days the Shiro - which is tons more versatile then you'd think - has been my solution.

I tried the Patron. Epic fail. I tried the 3 Zero. Nice ski, skis a little shorter in the 183 length, mounting point was a little too progressive for me even mounted behind the back line. I own the Kastle FX104 but I turned that into my touring ski. Nice ski, could stand for some slight early rise in the tail. . . . that ski is the new BMX 105 HP but the 181 and 189 lengths don't work. Thought about the 185 BMX 115 but didn't pull the trigger. The 4frnt Devastator is high on my list. However, my latest shot is the Black Crows Corvus 183.3. Mounting these pink bastards up this weekend and will report back. I more optimistic about these than any other ski I've tried. We'll see.

All that said, Volkl may have ended this problem once and for all with the new Concession. 186 length, 117 under foot, metal, a little camber.... could be great!?

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but have you tried the cochise?

**Smails** · 02-26-2016, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by smooth operator

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but have you tried the cochise?

Fair question, but yes. A few times actually. I owned the second gen Cochise for a few weeks and then demoed the Katana. That was the end of the Cochise for me. I am firmly in the anti-Cochise camp. I find them lifeless and really crappy on firm conditions if you want to carve a turn and get an rebound whatsoever. They were all the range for a year, but it is crazy to see how few pairs you see in Northern Vermont now. The Cochise has its purpose but it's not may jam. I would love to try the Gunsmoke, however, assuming it doesn't ski to jibby.

**roQer** · 02-26-2016, 05:36 PM

What's the reason to ski the metal Katana with Dynafits anyway? If you're comfy with Dynafits on a Katana you most likely don't need the Katana.

**crashidy** · 02-27-2016, 10:15 PM

Prior husume in quadglass construction

**Bcar** · 02-29-2016, 09:11 AM

why not look for a deal on last years black topsheet katana in 191? I finally put 6 days on mine (with KPs) and its my new fav ski. Did everything well on good snow and crap.

**Lindahl** · 02-29-2016, 10:23 AM

IME, the carbon Katana is NOT up to snuff. It deflects significantly more than the old metal Katana. Definitely can't charge as hard on it. Its damp, but it gets deflected as much as any other light ski I've been on.

**smooth operator** · 02-29-2016, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Smails

Fair question, but yes. A few times actually. I owned the second gen Cochise for a few weeks and then demoed the Katana. That was the end of the Cochise for me. I am firmly in the anti-Cochise camp. I find them lifeless and really crappy on firm conditions if you want to carve a turn and get an rebound whatsoever. They were all the range for a year, but it is crazy to see how few pairs you see in Northern Vermont now. The Cochise has its purpose but it's not may jam. I would love to try the Gunsmoke, however, assuming it doesn't ski to jibby.

Fair enough, I've never skied the katana, only the cochise, which I really liked. They don't see as much action these days since I'm mostly on my Gunsmokes. Just from looks I gathered that hte katana and cochise would be very similar, but you make it sound otherwise. Maybe I should try the katana sometime....
btw gunsmokes rip, but since I thought the same of the cochise that won't help you too much.

**TahoeJ** · 02-29-2016, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

IME, the carbon Katana is NOT up to snuff. It deflects significantly more than the old metal Katana. Definitely can't charge as hard on it. Its damp, but it gets deflected as much as any other light ski I've been on.

I think this is just the basic reality of physics, with ALL of these lighter weight skis. I don't care how stiff it is, if there's not enough mass it's just not going to be able to charge as hard and will get deflected, period. IMHO.

**swissiphic** · 02-29-2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I think this is just the basic reality of physics, with ALL of these lighter weight skis. I don't care how stiff it is, if there's not enough mass it's just not going to be able to charge as hard and will get deflected, period. IMHO.

Okay; soooo, seems to be a somewhat common theme of light skis deflecting and have a similar 'feel'... I haven't ridden any of these chatterboxes so can't comment from experience but... curious if guys with more knowledge/experience/ski design brains can enlighten.

What about simply adding temporary, removable mass to the skis top sheet to accommodate specific conditions where mass and/or added damping COULD HYPOTHETICALLY improve ski performance?

Just free thinking/brainstorming here but what about bike inner tube rubber strips double sided carpet taped onto ski topsheets fore and/or aft of bindings. (rossignol VAS plate theory) ....with another layer of thin aluminum attached with adhesive on top of the rubber, sandwhich style, potentially drilled out/swiss cheese style for weight reduction? Or, full length aluminum strips, tip to tail, on either side of the bindings if skis are wide enough?

Okay, I realize you tweak one aspect of ski design to potential detriment of others...the synergy involved in the various factors make the voodoo of ski engineering is why those guys get paid the big bucks?

Ideally, the whole works could be a solid layer that could be screwed on, snapped on to ski top sheet..thinking strategically spaced inserts on skis proper or some kind of snap on button like devices...or, velcro???

The reason I mention it is back in the late 80's skiing refrozen rain soaked snow on Mt. Hays on the true coast in Prince Rupert b.c. after a pineapple xpress turned arctic outflow...my Sears Rubuck company mail order "excellent juniors" skis failed to provide any solidity on the frozen cat track ice. So I taped hockey pucks onto the tips with hockey tape and found some improvement in tracking...no chatter, tips stayed dampingly parallel to the ice. Not much 'edge grip' but I recall feeling more control and satisfaction...skiing leather boots at the time.

Then a few years back I double sided carpet taped a few 5 buck aluminum strips onto the forebody of my k2 darksides to see if stiffening that part of the ski would help ease deflection in breakable refreeze crust over rain soaked coastal punchy snow. It did work in a/b comparison with non modded ski but pushed the deflection point of the ski further back to in front of the toepiece...full length strips might have been the ticket but I couldn't find strips long enough and saved the experiment for another day...yet to come.

All fun stuff to play with...kinda have a feeling that the component ski/dialing in specific tweaks to specific conditions is the way of the future just based on my very surficial rudimentary basic as basic gets testing. Start with a ski that is 'the basic' and keep adding layers...like the fancy shit on google earth.

**Lindahl** · 02-29-2016, 12:49 PM

With the carbon Katana, its not so much the dampness thats bothersome (pretty good there), it just deflects a lot and gets pushed around. Can't imagine rubber, carpet, etc. doing much for that.

**Bcar** · 02-29-2016, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

With the carbon Katana, its not so much the dampness thats bothersome (pretty good there), it just deflects a lot and gets pushed around. Can't imagine rubber, carpet, etc. doing much for that.

The carbos aren't like the old 191 green katanas, but i'd say the carbos in 191 would be comparable to the old green 184s. I didn't find myself being tossed around at all on my 191s, but I'm prob 240# with my full kit on. They plowed through anything with ease for me, but wouldn't smash through like Rosie O in a buffet line like the old 191s would. They're only ~15% lighter, ~2050g on my scales, not super light rando like some think.

**turnfarmer** · 02-29-2016, 08:01 PM

Look up EVI skis Prog, has removable weights with rubber layer. Off for long ups, on for down. I've played with 1"x4"X.25 aluminum strips double side carpet taped to a rubber layer then taped to ski tip. It made a slight improvement with stability, but a uvo disc worked far better. I was just too cheap to buy them at $100 but at 1/2 price I tried them and they work well. Volkl says they will only hold in race skis as the screws are pretty wimpy. I screwed them into a thin piece of aluminum and used 3M VHB tape to put them on the skis. Exterior carpet tape holds pretty well but as the uvos are pricey they got the good tape. Happy with the change the uvo disc made to a pair of BMTs. Next step will figure out how to make it removable.

**Banh Mi** · 10-08-2017, 09:47 AM

Looks like people bought the bigger sizes before they discontinued, and are just hanging onto them barely used.

Just in the greater Yellowstone area, I have recently seen three 191cm Katanas for sale cheap with just a few days (or less) on them.

Keep your eyes out on craigslist, this is a phenomenal ski.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**Self Jupiter** · 10-09-2017, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse

Looks like people bought the bigger sizes before they discontinued, and are just hanging onto them barely used.

Just in the greater Yellowstone area, I have recently seen three 191cm Katanas for sale cheap with just a few days (or less) on them.

Keep your eyes out on craigslist, this is a phenomenal ski.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

A true hoarder's ski. always amazed how many pairs I see out at SV/alpine every year.

**Self Jupiter** · 10-09-2017, 08:50 AM

For replacement I've never been on a pair of Katanas, but I own Liberty Variant 113 in 186 length and they seem to fit a similar bill. Also 4frnt Devastator 194, can always mount those 1-3 cms back if you want closer to the katana mount, they ski Fine on those mounts

**ClayCole** · 10-10-2017, 11:42 PM

I tried the Cochise as a Katana replacement. Totally different ski and I don't love it. This year I'm trying some Head monster 98's as daily drivers. In theory the monster 108's are close to a Katana and the 98's are close to the OG Mantra, but I haven't skied any of them yet so can't comment. Let me know if you find the new Katana because I want a pair.