2 US Ski Team athletes succumb in Soelden avalanche

[Dantheman]

Post control slides that are large enough to bury a skier are extremely rare in the US. I don't have the stats, but I would bet there have been only a handful of in-bounds burials on open terrain in the history of skiing in the US.

There have been multiple full burials and subsequent fatalities in the last 5 years alone.

[skiracer88_00]

So you're limiting your opinion based on above treeline terrain in CO and post-control inbounds slides large enough to bury you? What about the rest of the skiable terrain in NA and slides that take you through trees or over cliffs?

You are limiting your opinion based on avalanche cycles and periods of stability common with with coastal snowpacks. Still, I bet you are stoked that you can safely ski in bounds during/shortly after a storm with a minimal risk of getting caught in an avalanche.

I never said that I am opposed to backcountry skiing, I only said that I think it is nice that there are places where I can ski fun terrain at times when the avalanche risk in the backcountry is unacceptable to me. I understand that I usually could go ski 25 degree trees in the backcountry, but I am basing my opinion on the terrain I like to ski.

I can not think of a single instance of an in-bounds slide (on open terrain) dragging someone over cliffs/into trees and killing them. I'm not saying it has never happened, but i'm sure it is extremely rare. If you have statistics to the contrary, feel free to post and we can all learn something.

[skiracer88_00]

There have been multiple full burials and subsequent fatalities in the last 5 years alone.

on open terrain? I can think of one...winter park 2012

[My Pet Powder Goat]

on open terrain? I can think of one...winter park 2012

Think harder.

Sent from my SM-G900V using TGR Forums

[MagnificentUnicorn]

on open terrain? I can think of one...winter park 2012

From the CAIC statistics page there have been 11 inbounds deaths from avalanches since 04/05 and 44 since 50/51.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/acciden...and-reporting/
That's in the US.

[powtario]

Wow that sucks, vibes to the families. The guys were probably having a whale of a time on a Yurp trip, so sad it ended like this.

+++Vibes to all affected+++

As I understand, you simply cannot do that in europe - you are either confined to skiing groomers, or you need to take on a relatively high level of avalanche risk on a regular basis (correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes and no I think. Mostly yes, but a lot of off piste areas are very accessible by lifts and get super high traffic which can help break down old layers and stabilize the snow ala volunteers stepping Highlanda Bowl in Aspen for 3 days each year to help manage the schizophrenic Colorado snowpack. There is certainly more risk than a controlled piste, but less than random virgin slope.

[adrenalated]

I can not think of a single instance of an in-bounds slide (on open terrain) dragging someone over cliffs/into trees and killing them. I'm not saying it has never happened, but i'm sure it is extremely rare. If you have statistics to the contrary, feel free to post and we can all learn something.

http://avalanche.org/data.php?date=&sort=&id=431
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanches/17452

[klar]

There was another death yesterday in the Montafon area and one person died skitouring in south tyrol today (both incidents in the same general part of the alps and with similar snow pack issues as sölden).

In the resort of Hochfügen there were three separate burials today, one full burial (1.5m deep with deployed airbag) and two partials also with airbags. all involved are okay. Hochfügen is known and actively marketed as a "freeride" spot and hosts a high profile comp every year. There is a lot of challenging terrain that you can hike to in a few minutes. More and more people are skiing off the groomers, the difference to just a couple of years ago is pretty striking. Car companies that used to advertise with ski racers now sponsor freeriders. I've heard a lot of people saying that they expect a development towards more control work on non-groomed terrain and a system similar to the US if this trend continues. Personally I think it will only happen if freeriding becomes so marketable and attractive that resorts will put up with the increased liabilities and just plain PITA.

Mostly yes, but a lot of off piste areas are very accessible by lifts and get super high traffic which can help break down old layers and stabilize the snow ala volunteers stepping Highlanda Bowl in Aspen for 3 days each year to help manage the schizophrenic Colorado snowpack. There is certainly more risk than a controlled piste, but less than random virgin slope.

This is generally true and terrain next to the lift certainly gets treated differently than the same kind of terrain a few hours of skinning from the lift. As of now, skier compaction has not really taken place in most resorts since the majority of terrain in this part of the Alps was not skiable before the recent snowfalls. That place in Sölden probably did not see traffic before the last snowfall (which fell on a hoary 10 cm of crap probably left over from october ).

[ClarkleberryFinn]

There was another death yesterday in the Montafon area and one person died skitouring in south tyrol today (both incidents in the same general part of the alps and with similar snow pack issues as sölden).

Shit. Do you have a link to anything about the Montafon incident please?

[glademaster]

If enough of us tickle the dragon's balls often enough, sooner or later someone is going to get fucked in the ass.

[skiracer88_00]

From the CAIC statistics page there have been 11 inbounds deaths from avalanches since 04/05 and 44 since 50/51.
http://avalanche.state.co.us/acciden...and-reporting/
That's in the US.

Interesting. I would be interested to see how many of those deaths were actually on open terrain. Still a larger number than I would have thought.

Considering the number of skier-days in the US each season in bounds (~60 million), I still maintain that the overall risk of dying as a result of an in bounds avalanche in the US is extremely low....much, much lower than skiing in uncontrolled terrain in the backcountry.

I don't understand why you consider it a bad thing to have controlled areas with low avalanche risk (outside of groomed pistes) at least as an option for skiers. There are millions of acres of public land where you can go take on as much risk as you would like. I only said that I generally like the approach taken by US ski areas and don't wish to see it changed. I do think open boundary policies should be the norm (and more and more often this is becoming the norm, whether officially or unofficially), but inside the boundaries on open terrain, I like that the avalanche risk is generally mitigated.

[Lonnie]

Saw this on Social Media.

I have spent the last two days in a fog of depression. One of our closest friends lost their son in a tragic accident, 12 days before his 20th birthday.

The outpouring of love and comfort from the community and the press has been fantastic and positive.

The death was tragic for so many reasons. He truly had the world ahead of him. In the 14 years that I have known him, I can’t ever remember him sad. He gave 100% in everything he did. He was kind, respectful, happy, bright, funny, and got along great with his brothers, parents, and teammates. He was always smiling, and loved life. He went after his goals and dreams with gusto.

I suppose that it is a small consolation that he died chasing his dreams, and doing what he loved with his friends. I know that while everyone dies, few people really LIVE, and from all accounts, he really lived - albeit not long enough. To see such a bright light extinguished so absurdly early, just as he was really beginning to excel, as everything seemed perfectly lined up for a spectacular life, seems like some sort of sick joke. Was it karma? No. He was an incredibly giving person who gave of himself constantly, and brightened every life he touched. Maybe it was just dumb luck. Just an unavoidable accident that could happen to anyone.

It reminds me of how fragile life is. We go through life thinking that we always have tomorrow, that everything is fine, that we always have more time.

Every time I leave on a trip, I hug my family like it is the last time I will see them. I tell them I love them every morning and every night. Not because I don’t plan to see them again… but because I realize how fickle life can be. Life isn’t fair; It is random. And at times, it seems to be mocking us.

The loss of my friend has drained me. I hurt for his family, who didn’t deserve to suffer this loss. I hurt for his teammates, who are reeling in shock at the reminder that this could happen to any of them. I hurt at the thought of how painful this would be to me or any parent who loses a teenager who has just barely begun to experience life.

My tears have flowed freely thinking not only of how hard this must be for his parents and his brothers, but also because I have imagined my own pain if such a tragedy struck my family. Losing someone to a sudden accident doesn’t allow for treatments, goodbyes, hope, or atonement. It is just a sudden, unexpected punch in the face by the universe.

I am grateful that his death was probably very quick and I would like to believe that he didn’t suffer too much. But it isn’t the dead who suffer, it is the living.

I wish there were some way to take away that pain, but maybe that pain can only be felt by those who love. I guess in a way, the more you love, the more pain you are forced to suffer - Another cruel mystery of life.

The world lost a great young man this week, and the pain is going to hurt a lot of people for a very long time, because this boy was loved by so many. But in their pain, I believe some good will come. When they think of him, they will smile, remembering his great smile. They will hold their family members tighter, live life more fully, and appreciate more on the things that they love.

Bryce Astle… you will be missed.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Interesting. I would be interested to see how many of those deaths were actually on open terrain. Still a larger number than I would have thought.

Considering the number of skier-days in the US each season in bounds (~60 million), I still maintain that the overall risk of dying as a result of an in bounds avalanche in the US is extremely low....much, much lower than skiing in uncontrolled terrain in the backcountry.

I don't understand why you consider it a bad thing to have controlled areas with low avalanche risk (outside of groomed pistes) at least as an option for skiers. There are millions of acres of public land where you can go take on as much risk as you would like. I only said that I generally like the approach taken by US ski areas and don't wish to see it changed. I do think open boundary policies should be the norm (and more and more often this is becoming the norm, whether officially or unofficially), but inside the boundaries on open terrain, I like that the avalanche risk is generally mitigated.

I never said I thought it was a bad thing to have controlled inbounds terrain. I think a lot of people don't really realize how many slides happen post control. Those statistics are just the fatalities, how many slides have happened that weren't reported or had just injuries? That's why there is an icon next to those inbounds stats that says it's an estimate. Yes, it's safer than uncontrolled backcountry terrain but complacency and a false sense of security can get you in trouble and not just with post control avalanches. It doesn't matter how good of a skier you are.

I've seen and ski cut countless post control slides on inbounds terrain that could result in injury or death. I've witnessed inbounds slides on open terrain where people were injured.

[DasBlunt]

I do think open boundary policies should be the norm (and more and more often this is becoming the norm, whether officially or unofficially), but inside the boundaries on open terrain, I like that the avalanche risk is generally mitigated.

I think people that assume mitigated means "no-low risk" are more the general public.

When I am in Avalanche terrain, I act differently, no matter the previous control work. People dropping in on top of each other at places on Ridge of Loveland is a perfect example of blind stupidity.

Risk becomes shared, I hate that shit when I am on snow.