Fucking ropes

[angrysasquatch]

I'm looking to get a rope for my ski endeavors. I've already got a little 30m rope for glacier travel, but want a longer set for mainly rappelling, thinking 60m. Weight is the key factor. There are two ways to go, of course...

Twin/half: I was talked out of going this route because of how little it takes to cut through these little ropes. The rappel I did on my glacier rope (8mm twin) was also a bit sketchy with how fast it was, due to the small diameter in a reverso. Been looking at around 7ish mm ropes, at ~35g/m weight. But it would just run so fast, low sheath strength, and it would cost me close to $400 to be able to do a 60m rap...

Single + tag line: This is what I've been looking at for a while now, as it would be much less susceptible to cutting, plus would run slower in the reverso (or that's what I thought). Was thinking 9.2mm, plus a 5mm static tag line, at ~53g/m for the single, and 15g/m for the tag line, so the system is about the same weight as the twins, maybe a touch lighter. I know a 5mm tag is slightly risky, but at worst I lose the rope. Will be doing many single stage raps at first, so I'll get to know the system well before I go completely batshit insane. Can also bring a second single of a buddy's if it's particularly likely to cut the tag line. So not too worried about the tag. Single is nice for protecting an ascent as well, if I ever see the need. The problem I keep running into, is how bloody bouncy the rap is going to be on a single string. Seems singles are all just so cushy for climber nutjobs with sketchy pro, that there's nothing all that great for skier nutjobs like me.

What's in your pack? What lightweight options work well? Am I doomed to buy static ropes, just for rappels if I wanna go light? What good, light single ropes are there with low static elongation? From what I've heard, the new high tech rap lines are not capable of very many uses, so I kind of ignored them. Plus $$$$

[kootenayskier]

60mm Edilrid 8mm dry dynamic twin, cut in half. Makes it easy to split with my partner for crevasses, or rappels, just remember where the knot is. Once thought of geeking out on a 5mm static system, but for the minor weight savings, it never seemed worth the price or the compromise in handling.

[keksie]

I don't know what kind of gnar gnar you're planning to rappel but double/twin ropes are designed so that you should be able to do normal rappels, ropes snapping due to abrasion/cutting shouldn't really be a worry..

Seems like you're mostly having problems controlling your speed during the ascent with the thin ropes. This can be solved by various different techniques, like using two carabiners for your reverso instead of one, getting a special ATC type device suited for really thin diameter ropes, using a prussik autoblock (always recommended, use really thin diameter line for prusik when you're using thin ropes) etc etc.

Personally I would go for the lightest half ropes that I can find. But if you really need to rappel 60m in one go (this really is quite a long rappel already) then maybe also consider the tag line system to save a few grams, quite gimmicky though, and limited usability otherwise.

[Meadow Skipper]

These threads always devolve into "what I use," and what I have for long raps is a 60m Mammut 8.5 Genesis and a Black Diamond ATC-XP, and my usual partner has the same rope. You could always use two 'biners side-by-side to clip into the Reverso if you want more braking force.

Edit: Like what keksie just said above.

[Ocean]

Twin/half: I was talked out of going this route because of how little it takes to cut through these little ropes.

Whoever talked you out of this was wrong. With a twin rope system each strand is supporting half of your weight. Where as with a single rope plus tag line the single rope is supporting your whole weight. This is born out by the UIAA tests (15 falls for 2x 7.3mm Beal Gully as opposed to 6 falls for 1 x 9.1mm Beal Joker).

If you find skinny ropes in a Reverso too slick then the most simple solution is to buy a Reversino.

Yes, you could get away with a 5mm tag line, but they are a pain in the arse to use. Hauling hard on a thin and stretchy tag line when trying to retrieve a slightly jammed abseil rope just makes things more stressful than they need to be.

Edit: Grammar.

[rod9301]

A lot of people in chamonix use a 5.5 mm static tech cord for rapels.

very light, so you can always have it in the pack.

It's thin, so you use a super munter, which is a munter with an additional loop thru the carabiner.

Many youtube videos show how to do it.

I tried the supper munter on a 5.5 mm tech cord and there is no issue at all with friction, it holds very well.
And with an autoblock, you can easily hang hands free.

It looks scary, but it works.

Mammut also makes a 6mm rap cord, similar material.

Again, don't need a belay device, just a locker with a super munter.

A bit heavier.

Tech cord is used for hexes so life is pretty good.

[trogdortheburninator]

I've got a bunch of different lengths of half ropes, and a 60 m dedicated rap line. For a lot of ski purpose 30m seems adequate. I saw this the other day and think it sounds perfect: http://blog.weighmyrack.com/edelrid-...ory-cord-rope/

[zartagen]

I was gonna suggest 6mm cord with a super Munter. I got a 50m spool of mammut 6mm for a decent price last year

[rod9301]

Where did you get the spool? can't find any good prices.

[angrysasquatch]

Whoever talked you out of this was wrong. With a twin rope system each strand is supporting half of your weight. Where as with a single rope plus tag line the single rope is supporting your whole weight. This is born out by the UIAA tests (15 falls for 2x 7.3mm Beal Gully as opposed to 6 falls for 1 x 9.1mm Beal Joker).

Sorry, tired last night. He talked me out of the 5mm tech cord, and those ~6mm rap lines of Elderid and Mammut. Think there's been some info that the tech materials don't do low radius bends well (among other things, see last graph https://user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/te...ength_Cord.pdf)

Forgot about the double biner in Reverso. I've heard that the BD ATC is better with wee ropes than the Reverso, guess I'll give that a go.

Thinking about the Elderid Flycatcher now. 7.9mm twin ropes and a special belay device for $330. I thought before they came separate (~600 for the set) but that's not the case. Not sure I'm wanting to replace my rope as much as these things may need to be though...

[timmaio]

I have a Sterling Fusion Nano 9.2 and a 7mm accessory cord for tag line. It works pretty well, but wish my tag line was stiffer and more compact. I don't have problems with the 7mm tag line on a rap(just did a 25m rap with just the tag line on Saturday with a reverso and had no problems with friction. Even had to stop a few times to untangle the line and just wrapped it around my leg and no issues) If I were buying new today I would buy Beal Opera 8.5 and 6mm Edelrid Rap Line.

I looked into half and twin ropes but always like the simplicity of a single rope system. The only advantage I see to a half/twin system is when bringing up two seconds, but I rarely travel in technical terrain with a party of 3.

[_Aaron_]

It's pretty much all been said here already but I'll stick my 2 cents in as well. If you're only rappelling get something thin and light. No need to carry around a rope rated for lead falls if you're not leading on it. If you're having issues with controlling your rappel speed before you go back out it would be a good idea to revisit ways to add friction to your system as well as safeties like and autoblock or fireman's belay. Expecially in technical terrain, speed (lightness) is safety.

If you want to have something you can lead on a twin/half combo is ideal for me. Having two ropes provides some redundancy in the system in case of a severed rope snd they really aren't much trickier than climbing on a single line.

I dislike the single/tag systems. The ropes stretch and feed unevenly when you're rappelling (you can use a knot block to fix this issue) Also you only have one line you can lead with which, if it gets cut leaves you in a much more of a mess than if you severe a twin/half and end up leading on a one half/twin.

[timmaio]

When I use my tag line for a full length rapp I do a biner block on it and just rapp with the single rope and pull on the tag

[rod9301]

When I rap with my 10mm lead and a 6mm static line, there is a little creep, but not much, maybe 6 " total on a 60 m rappel. I am conscious of this and try to minimize the creep.

[jamesp]

all I've got to add is a head's-up re munter hitches for those who don't know.... They twist the living shit out of a rope, IME it was always less hassle to carry a descender.

If you are going too fast on raps you can also add a prussic back-up to feel better, works best with the device extended above you then the prussic is on your belay loop. Obviously make damn sure the device is extended up far enough so the prussic won't jam in it. I always liked a back-up esp in winter when rapping with gloves on.

[rod9301]

True, the munter twists the rope, but the super munter doesn't, must be the extra loop.

[zartagen]

Where did you get the spool? can't find any good prices.

It was on backcountry during a sale.

The 2nd loop in the super Munter takes out the twist

[_Aaron_]

When I use my tag line for a full length rapp I do a biner block on it and just rapp with the single rope and pull on the tag

Yeah this is what I was referring to above with the knot block. Only issue is when you pull the line you now have a biner and another bight in the rope to snag on shit instead of a single overhand knot. This is more of an issue with non vertical raps.