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  1. #26
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    Jan 2011
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    Own 193 C&D skull logo custom made extra stiff, spatulas, 195 praxis pow, 187 hoji, 186 & 196 renegades. Love both spats and praxis pow, I'd call both of them playful pow skis. C&D rips dense pow, is super stable and can turn on a dime despite being super burly. Hoji is great if you're not full on charging. But the Renegades blow everything out of the water, love both sizes. 186 for early season pow and 196 when you're in top ski shape and ready to give er. If you like to go fast there simply isn't a better ski. I describe them as a lightsaber cutting through snow. Stable beyond belief yet so easy to go from edge to edge, and then brake into a slarve. By far best ski out of the bunch for large air. All that said, they are a demanding ski. But if you bring your a-game, they are basically a comp ski for skiing pow, be prepared to want to jump off everything and carry speed. IMO they are hands down the best pow ski ever made. Not super surfy like full reverse/reverse, require better balance than C&D but the rewards are amazing.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    The Continental Divide
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    7,273
    Ok this conversation has really got me interested in the Lotus 138 for a backcountry ski. I have pure Wailer 112s in the short length with dynafits, so light, good for long days. But the 138 with a heavier binding like the Baron sounds awesome for everyday backcountry. I have Line Prophet 115s with Barons and I love the way they ski, but it's a different kind of turn than a rockered ski and I want both.

    Will continue to ski spatulas as well.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,327
    Quote Originally Posted by sgsbet86 View Post
    Own 193 C&D skull logo custom made extra stiff, spatulas, 195 praxis pow, 187 hoji, 186 & 196 renegades. Love both spats and praxis pow, I'd call both of them playful pow skis. C&D rips dense pow, is super stable and can turn on a dime despite being super burly. Hoji is great if you're not full on charging. But the Renegades blow everything out of the water, love both sizes. 186 for early season pow and 196 when you're in top ski shape and ready to give er. If you like to go fast there simply isn't a better ski. I describe them as a lightsaber cutting through snow. Stable beyond belief yet so easy to go from edge to edge, and then brake into a slarve. By far best ski out of the bunch for large air. All that said, they are a demanding ski. But if you bring your a-game, they are basically a comp ski for skiing pow, be prepared to want to jump off everything and carry speed. IMO they are hands down the best pow ski ever made. Not super surfy like full reverse/reverse, require better balance than C&D but the rewards are amazing.
    Holy shit do you have an absolutely killer POW quiver... BIG time envy... I am on the 196 Ren and could not agree with you more... I am 6'4" and 210 lbs so probably bigger than you and def by the end of the day will be a bit run down, but I do not find them overly demanding... My only bitch and I know a lot of it has to do with no camber, but any junked up snow is felt/transmitted underfoot...

    And I wish I could justify it, but would love to own a 196 Protest or 193 ON3P C&D... And love this thread...

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    5,512
    Yeah, there's something different about how the Renegade (and PM Gear Kusalas) accelerate through powder. It's pretty unique. The Kusalas fix the balance issues of the Renegades, for me. Stiffer and mounted a little further back.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    5,189
    If you go the L138 route, the rocker 0 (white with narrow tips & black sidewalls), 1 (white with bamboo sidewalls) & 2 (black with bamboo sidewalls) versions do have a flat section underfoot and might be easier for skinning. I've never skied any but the rocker 1 though, so it's just an assumption. The R2 version has the least rocker in the tails, but who wants a black topsheet for touring. Maybe this photo will help.

    Left to Right (clamps on the line): 184 Salomon Rocker2 122, 183 G3 Empire 127, 192 L138 R1/F2, 190 RP112




    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    But the 138 with a heavier binding like the Baron sounds awesome for everyday backcountry.
    Lots of folks run the 138 with Dynafits.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    I'm 5'8" 140 lbs so I understand some people (guys) wanting a bigger ski.
    Kinda goes without saying that a bikini photo or two would really help identify the ski that would best suit you.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    The Tits
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    571
    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    Ok this conversation has really got me interested in the Lotus 138 for a backcountry ski. I have pure Wailer 112s in the short length with dynafits, so light, good for long days. But the 138 with a heavier binding like the Baron sounds awesome for everyday backcountry.
    I have some lotus 138's (rocker 3.2) mounted with the cast system for touring. I was expecting to have some issues with them skinning due to the amount of rocker but no issues have materialized. They are the 202's so the shorter ones might be more likely to have issues but I bet you'll be fine.
    "College sailing isn't about who wins the most races, its about who can stand in the morning"

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    1,194
    As a snowboarder with the heart of a skier, I would go DPS spoon tech. That's if I were to fully-go Jeffrey Tambor on this thread.

  8. #33
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    Oct 2005
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    On my third pair of spatulas. Love them in funky conditions, pow, low visibility so you can toss them sideways. Got kuros after that, a little too wide, hurt my knees. Had original pontoons, liked em, but kinda floppy. If I could try a new reverse reverse ski, I'd look for some ARG's. closest in design and way lighter. Love the full rocker design. I'm actually looking for some rocker 2's 122, but not sure if i'll like them due to way more camber etc

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    If you go the L138 route, the rocker 0 (white with narrow tips & black sidewalls), 1 (white with bamboo sidewalls) & 2 (black with bamboo sidewalls) versions do have a flat section underfoot and might be easier for skinning. I've never skied any but the rocker 1 though, so it's just an assumption. The R2 version has the least rocker in the tails, but who wants a black topsheet for touring. Maybe this photo will help.

    Left to Right (clamps on the line): 184 Salomon Rocker2 122, 183 G3 Empire 127, 192 L138 R1/F2, 190 RP112






    Lots of folks run the 138 with Dynafits.



    Kinda goes without saying that a bikini photo or two would really help identify the ski that would best suit you.

    Hahaha, come to San Diego, I practically live in a bikini all summer.

    I like a heavier binding sometimes, light is not always right. Thanks for the rocker pic - would be cool to have spatula in there...
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    I'll snap a Spatula vs. 182cm Lotus 138 Spoon rocker shot for you at some point today.

  11. #36
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    Nov 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    I'll snap a Spatula vs. 182cm Lotus 138 Spoon rocker shot for you at some point today.
    That would be great
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  12. #37
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    Oct 2008
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    Just went to look at my Spats and they look closest to the Empire 127 but there's less of a flat spot and the amounts of tip and tail rocker look more even than what's displayed in the pic of the Empires.

    This is a cool thread. I own spats and the only thing I had against them was tip dive in some situations, so I bought Praxis Powders in a 185 as a replacement. I think they don't dive as much, as predicted, but they are also not as loose as the Spats. I'm not sure which I like best, honestly.

    I also recently bought Protests and mounted them with Dynafits, and I feel like they have even less tip dive (they are noticeably softer), and they are almost as loose most of the time, but they also have been a bit grabby in heavier set-up powder for me.

    For an in-bounds rig on this ski I'd go 1 level stiffer than stock and mount them at +1 or more.

    YMMV.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  13. #38
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Left to Right (clamps on the line): 184 Salomon Rocker2 122, 183 G3 Empire 127, 192 L138 R1/F2, 190 RP112

    Which one is your favourite?
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  14. #39
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    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    Only skied the middle two. I'm old school & didn't realize just how centered & twin-tip the Rocker2 is until I saw it in person, so I returned it to BC still in the plastic. Didn't like the looks of the abrupt shovel transition on the RP112 and thought the tails had too much rocker, so I sold those unused as well.

    Didn't get much time on the L138 last season, but REALLY liked it anywhere off the groomers. They're like jet packs under your feet. Better on hard sections of groomers than I expected, but honestly they're like snowblades unless you have at least a couple inches of soft - then they hook up. They skate just well enough to get around on flats. Glad I have the rocker 1 version, the more recent models seem like they'd be even more specialized due to having so much more rocker. I need more time on these, and am about to install inserts for Dynafits.

    Only have two days on the Empires, and am really, really digging them. They're moderately heavy, quite stiff and super stable, but with the continuous rocker they can still turn on a dime in the pow. Have never skied through cut-up, pre-mogul fields with as much speed and little effort as on these, but then I've always leaned toward lightweight/soft skis (which I won't be doing anymore). They even carve well on the groomers as long as you stay off the tips (pressure the tips and the tails will lift), at least for a 127mm waist ski. No doubt the L138 would be much better in breakable crust (due to tapered ends) and better for touring (300+ grams lighter per ski), but for inbounds pow days I'll definitely be on the Empires this season. If the 2015 carbon version had white or light-colored topsheets I'd definitely get a pair when they go on sale this spring, but black skis suck for touring unless you live someplace where it's never above 15* F or so. Hopefully G3 will go back to white for 2016.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 12-28-2014 at 11:13 PM.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Colorado
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    9,400
    Have you ridden the DPS Spoon Mir?

    I can confirm her hotness in any form, but she is way out of my league.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  16. #41
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    Dec 2005
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    If you're buying a dedicated bc rig you should consider the Spoons. I have a pair with sollyfit plates on them. They're like L138s with wings.

  17. #42
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    Oct 2003
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    You really don't want to tour on the Spoons. Skiing on a ski that is 148mm underfoot would suck no matter what, but the base bevel extends back over 60cm from the tip, which means whenever you're on anything sidehill/double fall line, you have no edge purchase in the front 1/3-1/2 of the ski. Imagine skinning a sidehill skintrack where both your tips are constantly washing down the fall line, trying to pull you off the skin track and you'll have an idea of what touring on the Spoon is like.

    Let's also not forget that at 148mm underfoot, the Spoon is a quiver ski even if you live at a cat skiing lodge or on Hakkaido.

  18. #43
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    Dec 2005
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    Poo poo and spell check.

  19. #44
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    Oct 2005
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    in my opinion the downskis countdown V are the ski most similar to the spatulas i know. i have both (well, spatulas delaminated years ago). the V have even less float and are much lighter, so are even more nimble. other than that they are kinda the same...
    probably kinda impossible to get nowadays, i have a pair here in innsbruck if someone wants to try them.

    freak~[&]

  20. #45
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    Oct 2005
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    Truckee
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    I'm gonna by 2 pairs of the 127 empire. One in a 183 for touring and 1 in 193 for every day at school. Looks like the perfect closest match to a spat with a little bit of side cut

  21. #46
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    Oct 2008
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    Just took a look at the Empire online and it looks like A LOT of side-cut... i.e. not really like a spat at all.

    Am I missing something?
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  22. #47
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    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by markcjr View Post
    I'm gonna by 2 pairs of the 127 empire. One in a 183 for touring and 1 in 193 for every day at school. Looks like the perfect closest match to a spat with a little bit of side cut
    They actually have quite a bit of sidecut, but allegedly it matches the rocker. Don't think Evo's turn radius specs (below) are accurate, Escape Route says the radius of the 183 is 23m and the 193 is 25.5m. Might want to try one pair first and see how you like it, don't know how much touring you'd want to do on a 3,330g ski when used L138's can be had fairly cheap these days.

    Size (cm) 183 - 193
    Tip Width (mm) 153 - 153
    Waist Width (mm) 127 - 127
    Tail Width (mm) 139 - 139
    Turning Radius 31m - 35m

  23. #48
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    How did the Empire get into this thread?

    Since it is... I'm skiing a similar shaped Praxis GPO with Continuous Curve Rocker. It feels slarvy-loose pretty much like my PowBoards, but not as creamy butter smooth-ride as a wide RR ski. However with a narrower waist it easier to manage as an allround ski. So far I prefer skiing it to my PB's, unless is is an obvious PB kind of day. Which are pretty common in my parts.
    Life is not lift served.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Munich, Germany
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    180
    Quote Originally Posted by markcjr View Post
    On my third pair of spatulas. Love them in funky conditions, pow, low visibility so you can toss them sideways. Got kuros after that, a little too wide, hurt my knees. Had original pontoons, liked em, but kinda floppy. If I could try a new reverse reverse ski, I'd look for some ARG's. closest in design and way lighter. Love the full rocker design. I'm actually looking for some rocker 2's 122, but not sure if i'll like them due to way more camber etc
    The camber on the r2 doesn't cause any issues in pow or even crust. They don't get hooky at all, and once you move they can be super loose if you want. And it makes them fun on groomers for medium turns.

    That daid I do think they are a light person's ski. They do have a speed limit on harder snow/refrozen cut up. Arent gonna win a lightness competition for touring. And kick turns aren't the easiest w a more centered mount and a long rockered tail. But it will be worth it going down.

    Loads of fun, honestly. Sidecut and shape and tip rocker are subtle for the style. I now love the big tail w rocker. First runs were odd coming from a Bonafide. But once they clicked....

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Littleton
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    2,454
    I have in my quiver...

    L138 (latest gen) 192
    L120 (latest gen) 200
    4Frnt Hoji 187
    4Frnt Renegade 186
    Praxis Protest 187
    Praxis Pow 195
    Praxis "custom" wootest (cut 5CM off the tail, reshaped tip/tail, re-rockered) 190

    My $0.02 is...

    1) Will you ski cut up snow?
    2) Will you tour?

    All have their place...

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