Athletes or daredevils?

[skiballs]

do you ski tour, do you ski up for 5 hrs 10hrs 24 hrs? No bar no free ride up there, booze ain't gona get you thru its just you and yer balls ... or ovaries as the case may be

Again, easy guy, I resolved not to get into arguments around here. However, since I have done both the things we a comparing, at a high level. Perhaps I am able to articulate the similarities better than someone who only has experience at one of the two things. Everyone thinks there baby is beautiful and special, so carry on.

[creaky fossil]

But that does not at all describe Auclair and Fransson's lives but you keep stating it in those terms ("addiction", "sketchy" "kill/maim", "depression") and that is what I disagree with and what Auclair and Fransson's lives totally contradict. They were as "present" at home with their kids or writing their diaries.

in addition to genetic gifts related to athleticism, humans also have scaled gifts of self-deception, defenses against knowing or admitting to self, and a binary sort of life vs death urge

it's possible to be "into and committed to the present moment" doing something destructive to self, or to others. even if you don't think of it that way yourself.

[XXX-er]

Again, easy guy, I resolved not to get into arguments around here. However, since I have done both the things we a comparing, at a high level. Perhaps I am able to articulate the similarities better than someone who only has experience at one of the two things. Everyone thinks there baby is beautiful and special, so carry on.

Yup very lazy so went to work ...undereducated eh?

we can agree to disagree

but I'm not playing golf

[stfu&gbtw]

You keep bringing up Auclair's and Fransson's mindset as if you have some sort of inside info. Would you explain for us how you arrived at such great insight? Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist who has interviewed them at length? Did you spend a lot of time skiing and climbing with them? Read some articles about them in Powder & Backcountry?

He has a degree in Chemistry.

[EaglesPDX]

You keep bringing up Auclair's and Fransson's mindset as if you have some sort of inside info.

I read Fransson's journals on the subject. I've seen comments about Fransson from those who knew him which dovetailed with his journals. Fransson wrote a lot about his mindset in answering the exact questions this thread poses.

[powder11]

Most people in this game would be robbing banks or some such adrenaline inspiring activity if not doing what they do. Its a dangerous addiction.

[abraham]

It's not just the adrenaline part, it's also doing something and thinking 'I can do that better' after finishing. Some of us apply that to skiing, biking, or climbing, other people might do the same thing for brewing coffee, baking bread or photography.

[ddsnake]

Is Ueli Steck an athlete or daredevil? … What about Alex Honnnold?…. Evil Kenivel, pure daredevil, but he was a pretty good hockey player.


Tony Trujillo, athlete or daredevil ?


People mentioned above, have athletic skill sets that very few people have and they perform feats that most people consider crazy (daredevil).

[skiballs]

^teach them not to play with fire.

[ill-advised strategy]

It's not just the adrenaline part, it's also doing something and thinking 'I can do that better' after finishing. Some of us apply that to skiing, biking, or climbing, other people might do the same thing for brewing coffee, baking bread or photography.

I think that's all part of it, needing to get to the next level, needing to continue trying something until you have it down....and the reward of mastering a difficult thing is an addicting biochemical response; or at least it is for many of us. it's not just adrenaline, it's about chasing achievement. It just happens that the moving horizon of achievement in skiing tends to correlate with increasing levels of risk.

[abraham]

I'm glad I read this thread, if not I might not have read this post the same way. http://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/12...tance-of-mehl/ Specifically the part about Csikszentmihalyi and his work on flow, I didn't know this was something people worked on so much. Now I have a bunch of new stuff to read about! Anyway, this image seemed appropriate to add to the discussion.

[TBS]

I read Fransson's journals on the subject. I've seen comments about Fransson from those who knew him which dovetailed with his journals. Fransson wrote a lot about his mindset in answering the exact questions this thread poses.

So, let me see if I understand correctly. You gained keen insight into Frannson's and Auclair's emotional drivers from the former's Blog (the one with all the sponsor logos plastered across the top banner) and media accounts?

Did you try comparing expressed behaviors to their observed behaviors? Perform any other type of objective analysis? Account for your own biases?

[skifishbum]

So, let me see if I understand correctly. You gained keen insight into Frannson's and Auclair's emotional drivers from the former's Blog (the one with all the sponsor logos plastered across the top banner) and media accounts?

Did you try comparing expressed behaviors to their observed behaviors? Perform any other type of objective analysis? Account for your own biases?

i wanna know if the stupid fuckin jong even skis
cause the blog inspired armchair expert shizz grows old real quick.

[TBS]

I think that's all part of it, needing to get to the next level, needing to continue trying something until you have it down....and the reward of mastering a difficult thing is an addicting biochemical response; or at least it is for many of us. it's not just adrenaline, it's about chasing achievement. It just happens that the moving horizon of achievement in skiing tends to correlate with increasing levels of risk.

I'm glad I read this thread, if not I might not have read this post the same way. http://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/12...tance-of-mehl/ Specifically the part about Csikszentmihalyi and his work on flow, I didn't know this was something people worked on so much. Now I have a bunch of new stuff to read about! Anyway, this image seemed appropriate to add to the discussion.

This chart is interesting. Guessing the skill and challenge scales are measured subjectively by each person?

Also seems, per Yeti's comment about risk increasing with skill, this chart needs an axis for perceived consequences as well. Probably overlaps some with perceived skill but takes into account differences in risk tolerance.

[ill-advised strategy]

I mean, I think a lot of pdx's posting is/was response to perceived criticism of the dead. People react strongly to that, and it's understandable. I'm not trying to diminish any accomplishment or tear down legacies.

[chatton18]

which sounds like those intermediates in the bar doing a less atheletic version of what could be termed atheletics

Earlier you were just talking about some athletes playing a game, which is pretty much the same as pro hockey players going to Hawaii to play golf when they didn't make the playoffs in a very athletic game

do you ski tour, do you ski up for 5 hrs 10hrs 24 hrs? No bar no free ride up there, booze ain't gona get you thru its just you and yer balls ... or ovaries as the case may be

you going out and shooting 100 is the equivalent to skinning up an access road. So yes, I think most people with minimal athleticism could do that for 8 hours. They're still our skinning, but at the same time, they're doing two very different activities.

[creaky fossil]

I'm glad I read this thread, if not I might not have read this post the same way. http://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/12...tance-of-mehl/ Specifically the part about Csikszentmihalyi and his work on flow, I didn't know this was something people worked on so much. Now I have a bunch of new stuff to read about! Anyway, this image seemed appropriate to add to the discussion.

Tim Gallwey wrote books on the mental side of things. When I read the Hungarian's stuff on flow it reminded me of Gallwey. That's something else you can check out if you're reading on this subject.

I mean, I think a lot of pdx's posting is/was response to perceived criticism of the dead. People react strongly to that, and it's understandable. I'm not trying to diminish any accomplishment or tear down legacies.

I didn't get that from your posts at all. I like what you've had to say. Full-spectrum talk about human spirit, the mind, consciousness involves more than the always-positive. It's a big subject, and even when talking neutrally can trigger some negative feelings in the reader/listener.

I think that's all part of it, needing to get to the next level, needing to continue trying something until you have it down....and the reward of mastering a difficult thing is an addicting biochemical response; or at least it is for many of us. it's not just adrenaline, it's about chasing achievement. It just happens that the moving horizon of achievement in skiing tends to correlate with increasing levels of risk.

And that raises the flow concept, some or all perceived risk evaporates in the flow state.

[XXX-er]

you going out and shooting 100 is the equivalent to skinning up an access road. So yes, I think most people with minimal athleticism could do that for 8 hours. They're still our skinning, but at the same time, they're doing two very different activities.

walking the 18 holes would be easy, me shooting 100 would be impossible, I would need years of practise

I would rather suffer for 24 hrs doing something hideous and get it over with

edit: one mans game is another mans sport ... arguably

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Is Ueli Steck an athlete or daredevil? … What about Alex Honnnold?…. Evil Kenivel, pure daredevil, but he was a pretty good hockey player.


Tony Trujillo, athlete or daredevil ?


People mentioned above, have athletic skill sets that very few people have and they perform feats that most people consider crazy (daredevil).

Both amazing athletes. I would say Steck is more of the daredevil that Trujillo. Steck is risking certain death if he makes a mistake, Trujillo not so much. Steck had a bunch of cameras and heli footage of that climb, if that's not a daredevil stunt I don't know what is. Who knows what someone like Steck has for motivation, someone like Trujillo has a great gift and is for the most part having fun with lower risk. Apples and oranges IMO.

[abraham]

Tim Gallwey wrote books on the mental side of things. When I read the Hungarian's stuff on flow it reminded me of Gallwey. That's something else you can check out if you're reading on this subject.

I've seen you mention that name before, maybe even suggesting his books to me, either in the golf thread or a discussion of flow trails vs natural trails. Of course now that I've decided to be interested in the topic I'll pay attention.

[Coño Frío]

so vonn is an athlete but her guy tiger isn't, according to tgr logic.

Seems correct to me. Vonn uses athleticism and skill to compete. IMO, Tiger is a washed up juicer who was better when he was consistently bangin strange, back before he changed his swing and his PED regimen. Then again, maybe TW was the one athlete/game player that Dr. Galea treated without roids. Nothing is impossible. Learned that watching Cloud 9.

[ddsnake]

Seems correct to me. Vonn uses athleticism and skill to compete. IMO, Tiger is a washed up juicer who was better when he was consistently bangin strange, back before he changed his swing and his PED regimen. Then again, maybe TW was the one athlete/game player that Dr. Galea treated without roids. Nothing is impossible. Learned that watching Cloud 9.

I agree with T Woods being on GH, test and other stuff. Anyone who still believes Tiger is a lifetime natural, probably still thinks Lance was natural.
Also Coño Frío, WTF is Cloud 9? If you need something/someone to let you in on the fact that Tiger has used lots of PED's , you probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy. The transformation of his physique has been more then obvious.

[Coño Frío]

I agree with T Woods being on GH, test and other stuff. Anyone who still believes Tiger is a lifetime natural, probably still thinks Lance was natural.
Also Coño Frío, WTF is Cloud 9? If you need something/someone to let you in on the fact that Tiger has used lots of PED's , you probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy. The transformation of his physique has been more then obvious.

Powder named Cody's trip down the Frog's Asshole line of the year? They obviously missed Kayla's rip down Tyson's Peak. I guess they don't have tween girls.

http://youtu.be/TKI3yPGotiQ

[east or bust]

^^I lol'd

[EaglesPDX]

So, let me see if I understand correctly. You gained keen insight into Frannson's and Auclair's emotional drivers from the former's Blog (the one with all the sponsor logos plastered across the top banner) and media accounts?

Crazy isn't it. Thinking you can have some idea about a person's philosophy and motivation by reading their extensive writing on the subject.