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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    1.) So you want an inbounds boot for both alpine bindings and beast?
    2.) A lightweight sub 1200g touring boot? (Beast compattable?)
    Yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    You have Cochise 130's? When I bench test those with tech soles (not ground) the release in sth bindings is consistent enough that I wouldn't worry. That's at a din low enough to be tested... The machine won't test past 10,5 or 11 I think if I remember, been a while. So if you're riding at 14 etc you know what you need from past experiences. Which begs the point? Why so worried about exact release values? Margin of error etc.
    Yeah. Got those. Love em. I didn't do the bench test myself. The shop (usually reliable, but not always) told me they failed outright with the shaved soles. I didn't try it with an unshaved set...although I have a set I could use for that. They tested them at 11, where I usually ride. If that's the top end of testable range, I'm not sure those results are trustworthy. I tend to trust a mag test more than a shop test

    I'm not worried about exact release values...I just don't want to lose an ACL to a failed release. Really paranoid about my knee health. All this inquiry is based on an end goal of having mostly 1 boot for all the bindings AND healthy knees. At 165 lbs, I'm a little more worried about not coming out of a clamp than XavierD. I still make stupid moves multiple times a season where I'm really glad I eject, and I want the ski to release when it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    Is it that big a pain just to take off your beast fitting? It sucks I know, wood screws bla bla bla.
    Honestly, that probably wouldn't add much time to the sole swap. It's already a PITA. But one I've tolerated for some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    How about dedicated alpine and touring setups? Or beast your inbounds skis? Or have both and spend lots of money.
    Yeah. Auvgeek says the same thing. I've yet to find a boot that fits and performs as well as the cochise. That has by no means been an exhaustive search, but the search I have conducted has cost money and has resulted in nothing fitting or performing better. So I guess, the cochise with alpine soles is my answer to the alpine setup.

    I don't like the beast so much that I want it on my inbounds skis. I do have a set on my billy goats, and I'm looking forward to re-installing the p18s. Honestly, I don't really like it (the beast) all that much, but I do think it's the best available option. I like skiing it way way way more than radicals and for transition time, touring with groups, tougher skinning, it's better than the CAST. For ascent weight and skiing feel, it's much better than a frame binding.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    Why not just use your Cochise for alpine/beast? And get a lightweight boot for long tours?

    Maybe I just don't get it.
    No, I think you do. Cochise for alpine/beast with a backland something or other will likely be how it works out...but wouldn't it be great to have a cabrio boot with a higher shin height that doesn't have to swap soles.

    Worth retrying the DIN test at a different shop? Or are you supremely confident in your results?
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Everything sucks at something, so I guess by definition, "everything sucks.".
    Perspective.
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  3. #78
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    Mr. Chicken I am confident enough that my old lady, with broken knees, rides cochises in sth bindings with tech soles. I would as well.

    Not sure what machine your shop uses.... Or how theirs works, the wintersteiger in ours tests out "fine", with everything correctly set (both binding and machine). (Within a margin of error). Wtr soles are thicker than Cochise, not sure how they test out. Never tried Vulcan and p18/sth. Obviously your shop told you it wouldn't work, liability I assume. Shit happens. Either you stop being a pussy about your knees or you quit skiing. Shit happens, weird shit, regardless of DIN etc.

    Beasts are good, very good. I agree. Boots are my problem as well. How about a boot that weighs 1500g, is stiffer than the Vulcan, progressive as a flexion cabrio, tours like dream, and has a short bsl. That's my holy grail. But not reality.

  4. #79
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    Dalbello Lupo T.I / AT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkiersLeft View Post
    Mr. Chicken stop being a pussy about your knees .
    Message received. Feels ominous though.
    Last edited by SupreChicken; 10-20-2015 at 10:24 PM.
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  5. #80
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    Just talked with a Dalbello rep and ordered the TI and a set of alpine soles to go with them. Apparently this is an option.
    fighting gravity on a daily basis

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinman View Post
    Just talked with a Dalbello rep and ordered the TI and a set of alpine soles to go with them. Apparently this is an option.
    hmm, that sound intresting, please put up some pics when arrived

  7. #82
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    It might be a week or two until they are in
    fighting gravity on a daily basis

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    Handcrafted in Northern Vermont
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  8. #83
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    Just satisfied my curiosity and tried to swap soles with the regular Lupo and they are not compatible so the rumoured alpine soles are specific to the TI.

  9. #84
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    please note that the gap between soles and shoe is just because I didnt screw the two back screws in to take the pic.

  10. #85
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    Dalbello Lupo T.I / AT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post


    please note that the gap between soles and shoe is just because I didnt screw the two back screws in to take the pic.
    So that's a firm, not rubber, sole that reliably releases in every binding at a din height that also has tech inserts? I mean, it must have inserts, because you're clipped into a beautiful fucking beast binding and those soles don't look like the fucking rubber ones...So as long as you can live without a rubber fucking sole for "scrambling over rocks and shit", you essentially have (strap in)...

    ONE FUCKING SKI BOOT TO RULE ALL THE FUCKING SKI BOOTS?!?!?!?!?

    Confirm or deny. Someone. This load isn't going to blow itself.
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  11. #86
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    Dalbello Lupo T.I / AT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    I'm not worried about exact release values...I just don't want to lose an ACL to a failed release. Really paranoid about my knee health.
    https://www.wildsnow.com/15123/tech-...cl-broken-leg/

    Might want to read that. Basically there's a blind spot opposite the boot from the end that laterally releases. Tech bindings (except the Vipec and Trab TR2) break tibs/fibs (and sprain ankles), and alpines (and Vipec and Trab TR2) snap ACLs. Your alpine binding won't save your ACL in any way. Staying out of the backseat will. The Beasts are likely better for your ACL than FKS, due to lateral release at the heel. They also likely expose you to a tib/fib.

    After a severe ankle sprain (probably came close to a tib/fib) due to ATKs failing to release at the toe in a mellow over the bars last year (stuffed tip), I've switched to Vipecs for my deep snow charging ski, since I'm more likely to stuff a tip (and tib/fibbing) than be backseat (and tearing an ACL). For my lightweight setup, full tech bindings make sense for weight reasons - I won't be charging hard anyway. For firm snow charging, the suspension and cushion of an alpine binding is a must, though I'd prefer a heel that laterally releases (not going to stuff a tip in firm snow).

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    https://www.wildsnow.com/15123/tech-...cl-broken-leg/

    Might want to read that. Basically there's a blind spot opposite the boot from the end that laterally releases. Tech bindings (except the Vipec and Trab TR2) break tibs/fibs (and sprain ankles), and alpines (and Vipec and Trab TR2) snap ACLs. Your alpine binding won't save your ACL in any way. Staying out of the backseat will. The Beasts are likely better for your ACL than FKS, due to lateral release at the heel. They also likely expose you to a tib/fib.

    After a severe ankle sprain (probably came close to a tib/fib) due to ATKs failing to release at the toe in a mellow over the bars last year (stuffed tip), I've switched to Vipecs for my deep snow charging ski, since I'm more likely to stuff a tip (and tib/fibbing) than be backseat (and tearing an ACL). For my lightweight setup, full tech bindings make sense for weight reasons - I won't be charging hard anyway. For firm snow charging, the suspension and cushion of an alpine binding is a must, though I'd prefer a heel that laterally releases (not going to stuff a tip in firm snow).
    I've had that exact ankle sprain in dynafits.

    I'm going to try beast toe/kingpin to address this issue in deep snow.

    Radical toe/plum heel for firmer conditions. I like the look of the raider. I would vipec as well, but I haven't felt the need to...I don't exactly charge when I'm on that setup.

    What I'd like to know now is can I use the above boot for both the beastpin frankenbinding and my fks and STH?
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    What I'd like to know now is can I use the above boot for both the beastpin frankenbinding and my fks and STH?

    I'm on lupo IT, using it with kingpins, and STH, with the toe height wound up/tall. Seems to work in both


  14. #89
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    Dalbello Lupo T.I / AT ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    I'm going to try beast toe/kingpin to address this issue in deep snow.

    Radical toe/plum heel for firmer conditions. I like the look of the raider. I would vipec as well, but I haven't felt the need to...I don't exactly charge when I'm on that setup.
    Interesting. The Vipec would take the place of your BeastPin combo though, not RadPlum. I still use RadPlum, like you, for firm conditions. Really bummed because I loved the ATKs on my deep snow charger - I still do, and keep waffling on whether to take the risk or not. If not, the ATKs will replace the RadPlums.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Confirm or deny. Someone. This load isn't going to blow itself.


    "interchangeable sole plates for alpine ski boot" - Lupo T.I. Series
    plz notice legalese about "not certified to conform to..."
    the instruction leaflet says:
    "The Lupo T.i. comes equipped with Alpine Touring Norm boot soles (ISO 9523) This Lupo T.I. Heel/Toe kit contains interchangeable soles that conform to the dimentions of ISO 5355 boot soles but is not certified ISO 5355 Alpine Boot Sole due to the inclusion of the metal components (Tech insert Dynafit Style) integrated into the toe and heel of the ski boot shell. The use of this Heel/Toe kit of the Lupo T.I. has been tested with bindings representing the full range of release kinematics on currently available ISO 9462 certified alpine bindings and provide acceptable release values versus ISO 5355 certified Alpine Boots" (and yeah, "dimentions" is their spelling, not mine)

    Personally Im kind of lost amongst these ISO thingys but they fit my beasts and my 916s so...
    And I like Dalbello boots, so I'm stoked.

  16. #91
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    So I just got my Lupo Tis fitted with the alpine soles. I skied them today. Great boot, great fit and no issues with the sole compatibility. As you can see there is appropriate space between the AFD and the sole plate. AFD can be easily moved with a fingertip with about .5mm space between the boot and the sole. Binding in the pic is Griffon Demo, I don't have my King Pins mounted yet, maybe this weekend so I have not clicked into the tech inserts yet. Also I did not have these DIN tested yet. Again maybe this weekend.

    Also the white section that contacts the AFD is hard plastic not rubber. There is rubber on the very front and back of the toe plates but the section over the AFD is hard plastic.

    Swapping them out was easy except for one screw that was cross threaded from the factory and would not come out. Ended having to Dremel it out and replace the T-nut and M4 screw from the hardware store.

    Stoked for this season, if we get any real snow......

    [/URL]
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  17. #92
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    Looks really good yeah

    Have to order to my pair

  18. #93
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    I have a pair of Lupo 110 flex without tech inserts (unfortunately). I fucking love it on hard, groomed or bumpy snow compared to any AT boot I've skied.

    FFS, if Dalbello can make a boot - with a non-locking walk mode - that fits, flexes and skis as well as this boot, then why can't any of the AT specific companies do the same, perhaps in a slightly lighter model?

    The Merc is the best fit for my foot from the AT range of boots, but in comparison, this boot makes the Dynafit Mercury fit, flex and ski like a failure. A failure that collapses forward.
    Life is not lift served.

  19. #94
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    I have a pair of TI 130. Need to mold and need those alpine soles. I don't have easy access to a dalbello rep. I wrote them but have yet to hear back. Anyone got easy access to a pair of those alpine soles?
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  20. #95
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    I am left with the impression that the stock tech soles work with WTR bindings.

    See the questions/comments section of the Lupo TI page @ backcountry.com:
    http://www.backcountry.com/dalbello-...-i.d.-ski-boot
    “This boot definitely works with the WTR look pivots. Just got the Cast set up with the looks and this boot. Love it!”

    I realize that this is not a factory rep testimonial backed by an ISO Cert claim but, the hard plastic inserts in the bottom of the tech lug looks like an attempt to mitigate the resistance that the rubber creates with the AFD.

    I was about to pull the trigger on the SP. I would rather do the TI and skip having to send the SP to Cast for inserts.

    With the alpine sole installed, is a WTR binder necessary? The demo griffon above looks right. If the lug is not making contact with the AFD, how could it not function like any other DIN lug?


    Vinman, can you compare the height of the TI lug with the alpine sole to a a normal DIN lug height?


    ETA: QUADRALOCK STABILITY PYLONS High durometer, reinforced polyurethane Quadralock Stability Pylons provide solid boot to binding interface at 4 points, minimizing sole compression and flex.
    Last edited by Gepeto; 12-31-2015 at 12:26 PM.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    I am left with the impression that the stock tech soles work with WTR bindings.
    I think that is what this means: "The Lupo T.i. comes equipped with Alpine Touring Norm boot soles (ISO 9523)"
    Din-soles = raceboots, lug-soles = std modern at-sole with hard plastic parts for afd's

    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken
    Anyone got easy access to a pair of those alpine soles?
    From what I understood they should be available everywhere.

    Sidenote and personal opinion:
    I wore a std Lupo on one foot and a Lupo TI on the other and the TI is slightly softer and a little "springier".
    Identical tongues in identical plastic so slightly softer and a little "springier" goes for the other two portions of the boot.
    If the Lupo is 130 the TI is 125+ish.

    Rumour (not from known reliable source but anyhoo):
    Seven different Lupo versions from Dalbello next year incl. a lightweight lupo TI with removable tongues and improved walkmode.

    Happy New Year!
    Last edited by rabbit; 12-31-2015 at 01:41 PM.

  22. #97
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    Anyone looking for Dalbello Sports Lupo SP I.D. in 26.5? I have a pair......

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    Vinman, can you compare the height of the TI lug with the alpine sole to a a normal DIN lug height?
    15mm at the very end of the boot sole on my old Nordica Dobermans and new Lupo TI with alpine toe soles installed. and 19mm thick at the flat spot that would be just above the AFD. Measured from the end of the lug to the white plastic piece on the sole.

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  24. #99
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    I appreciate that they will work with wtr afds. What about sth 16? I think I'd prefer the pictured soles to the stock soles. Gonna hit a shop in town soon, order a pair, and let them charge me for baking the liners. Interested to see the lightweight offerings next year.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    Sidenote and personal opinion:
    I wore a std Lupo on one foot and a Lupo TI on the other and the TI is slightly softer and a little "springier".
    Identical tongues in identical plastic so slightly softer and a little "springier" goes for the other two portions of the boot.
    If the Lupo is 130 the TI is 125+ish.
    Well, that shoots down the SP T.I. as an option. Very important insight - thanx for that rabbit


    Quote Originally Posted by Vinman View Post
    15mm at the very end of the boot sole on my old Nordica Dobermans and new Lupo TI with alpine toe soles installed. and 19mm thick at the flat spot that would be just above the AFD. Measured from the end of the lug to the white plastic piece on the sole.
    So the Lug thickness is the same on the end, but the TI has a taper.

    That indicates the need for a WTR Binding even with the DIN sole plate?

    Which begs the question__
    WTR type binding toes can adjust up to normal DIN lug height?

    I ask because if this is true, then it would make sense to only buy WTR type binders in order to accept both straight DIN and WTR type boots.

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