Another ski hill on the road to ruin

[Benny Profane]

Idiots with money ruining perfectly fine ski hills. Bet most of them can't ski.
Wasn't this fellow Cohee receiver of a lot of trash talk here a few years ago?


http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2...ty-raises-sta/

“All of us have wondered for years why Utah doesn’t do more business,” Cohee said. “The terrain in Colorado is just spectacular. The fact of the matter is, Copper Mountain, Breckenridge, Vail, Beaver Creek, Steamboat and Winter Park are just better ski areas. They’re just better mountains. There’s nothing in Utah that can compete with one of those mountains.

“Snowbird is a great ski area. Alta is one of the best 2,000-vertical-foot mountains anywhere. Park City is OK. The Canyons is not OK. Deer Valley is good. But they are not Colorado," Cohee explained. "Steamboat has 3,000 vertical feet of intermediate runs that are 200 feet wide with the best snow there is."



Stupid asshole.

[looseofforangejuice]

wow the depth of arrogance there is pretty staggering.

never during my short times in Utah did I ever say "this is great, but I really wish I was in Colorado."

[Bunion 2020]

Interesting article.

The Ski Industry is achangin, again.

[Benny Profane]

Interesting article.

The Ski Industry is achangin, again.

Not really, all that much. It's just that the people in charge are the ones who have been pushing for intermediate groomers 200 feet wide everywhere, and it looks like they won. The whole real estate thing that they obsessed over has crumbled, so, now it's on to fucking up the product.

[PNWbrit]

Idiots with money ruining perfectly fine ski hills. Bet most of them can't ski.
.

You tell 'em Benny!

[Name Redacted]

For beginner and intermediate skiers, BCC and LCC offer very few options. The people who spend the most $$$ are beginner and intermediate skiers who ski a half day, then hit the hot tub at their hotel, and go out to dinner. Most of the greens and blues in BCC and LCC resemble cat tracks. By comparison, CO, in all it's flat ass glory, has thousands of acres of big, fat, wide, groomed, blues and greens. Not to mention the resorts at the base, where people drop loads of cash, are HUDGE and can accommodate a shit load of people. Snowbird for comparison, has a Tramdock, a ski shop, and a few shitty restaurants. The Cliff lodge has a nice hot tub and that's about all it has going for it.

As has been discussed before ad nauseam on this forum which is full of rad-bro skiers who only shred triple blacks, us dirtbags don't spend money. Last time I skied greens all day with my family, I must have spent a $100 on drinks alone all over the mountain, just to keep it interesting. Usually I BYOB and drink on my tailgate.

So at the end of the day, yeah, Steamboat and all the vail resorts are better than UT for beg-intermediate moneybag groomer skiers.

I for one think Steamboat is one of the most overrated resorts in the country though.

[mtnbiker/boarder]

For beginner and intermediate skiers, BCC and LCC offer very few options. The people who spend the most $$$ are beginner and intermediate skiers who ski a half day, then hit the hot tub at their hotel, and go out to dinner. Most of the greens and blues in BCC and LCC resemble cat tracks. By comparison, CO, in all it's flat ass glory, has thousands of acres of big, fat, wide, groomed, blues and greens. Not to mention the resorts at the base, where people drop loads of cash, are HUDGE and can accommodate a shit load of people. Snowbird for comparison, has a Tramdock, a ski shop, and a few shitty restaurants. The Cliff lodge has a nice hot tub and that's about all it has going for it.

As has been discussed before ad nauseam on this forum which is full of rad-bro skiers who only shred triple blacks, us dirtbags don't spend money. Last time I skied greens all day with my family, I must have spent a $100 on drinks alone all over the mountain, just to keep it interesting. Usually I BYOB and drink on my tailgate.

So at the end of the day, yeah, Steamboat and all the vail resorts are better than UT for beg-intermediate moneybag groomer skiers.

I for one think Steamboat is one of the most overrated resorts in the country though.

Well said......most want the BIG PACKAGE not just the snow..

[Name Redacted]

Well said......most want the BIG PACKAGE not just the snow..

How many times have I heard people sitting in the lodge on a powder day, bitching about how there's too much snow. I heard a lady, wearing a fur coat, full on bitching her head off at the manager of a mid mountain restaurant about how none of the runs were groomed like it was his fault. It was a double digit day at Vail. How would she have faired in UT?

[Benny Profane]

But, my point is that, these people are so out of it that the only thing they really want is a world of 200 ft wide blue runs. It's not as though they are the old crew who actually got into the business because they like skiing and wanted to be around it a lot, and are just making a cynical and calculated business move. No, these are gapers running the companies now, and they have a hard time even conceiving what an advanced skier wants. I just think that bodes a lot of ill for skiing's future

[Name Redacted]

But, my point is that, these people are so out of it that the only thing they really want is a world of 200 ft wide blue runs. It's not as though they are the old crew who actually got into the business because they like skiing and wanted to be around it a lot, and are just making a cynical and calculated business move. No, these are gapers running the companies now, and they have a hard time even conceiving what an advanced skier wants. I just think that bodes a lot of ill for skiing's future

You are right. But even if the most hardcore skier is the CEO, many of them are still looking to maximize profits and expand intermediate terrain. Gotta keep the stockholders happy or you lose your job. Not many big ski hills are owned by a single person who calls the shots anymore.

[hatchgreenchile]

The ol’ CO vs UT pissing match, never grows old.

Steamboat does have more intermediate terrain planned near Sunshine lift, but IMO, I think the days of 200’ wide groomers expansions are over. Too much pressure against bulldozing hundreds of acres, even if it is rotted out beetle kill. You’ll see more expansions like Blue Sky with a focus on natural terrain features, meadows, very loosely space tree runs, etc.

I don’t know if they are still pushing expansion into the golf course skiers right of Pony Express, and Fish Creek has always been rumored. It would certainly change the usual perception of Steamboat if they expanded that way…

[LightRanger]

Post a link to this thread in the Tahoe conditions thread, Benny. Kirkwood regulars have a thing or two to say about Cohee. He went to China Peak after Vail bought Kirkwood. Interesting that he resurfaced at Sierra Nevada College.

Edit: I see the article says that Cohee owns China Peak. Interesting.

[shirk]

Tim Cohee "Thanks for calling Kirkwoooooooooooooooooood".

[powtario]

How many times have I heard people sitting in the lodge on a powder day, bitching about how there's too much snow.

The fuck you doing in the lodge? Fuckin gaper......😏

[raisingarizona13]

After reading that the fact that Vail and the other big players have been buying small areas in the east or midwest makes complete sense. They are really going to put the squeeze on destination ski areas. Maybe there will still be a selling points for destination areas like Telluride not being linked to the big company's? If Corporations like Vail though continue to purchase areas near the major skiing population centers it's not going to get easier for the others.

[Canada1]

I've lived in both. Colorado is freaking cold. This allows them to dump man made snow on groomers at a rate that Utah can't in the early season. Vail is almost as good at grooming as Deer Valley. For a tourist looking to go ski blues, drink red wine at lunch and hot tub through the evening, Colorado has come good choices. This site does not target this demographic from either state. Colorado and Utah have some pretty kick ass Terrain. It really is just about how the snow lines up.

Park City just announced a 55 Mil improvement. All of it is focused on more access to blue terrain, and the connection of the resorts with an eight passenger gondola. It will have zero impact on how or where I ski. It certainly clarified what their target is. I had a lady quiz me with marketing questions. She asked if I wanted to be able to buy the newest equipment, or if I cared if I have a new jacket. (along with a lot of other stuff) I found those questions funny. My synopsis of the Vail experience versus the Park city experience so far.

Food prices have gone up 10%. Probably would have happened if PCMR was still in the lead.
Mazes have been reworked. We'll see the impact in a couple weeks when crowds show up.
Opening week was alot more crowded. Natural effect of having two resorts season passes having access to only one open resort. The place has been empty since the canyons opened, and that is probably a result of no storms and warm weather.

I have never had a bad day of skiing in Colorado or Utah. Thy both are pretty damn great. I may retire in Jackson if it isn't a Vail resort by then. I will never live in the front range again. The impact of that traffic jam to get to access the great places was too great, and I don't think Vail can coordinate a solution for that Maze issue.

[Benny Profane]

After reading that the fact that Vail and the other big players have been buying small areas in the east or midwest makes complete sense. They are really going to put the squeeze on destination ski areas. Maybe there will still be a selling points for destination areas like Telluride not being linked to the big company's? If Corporations like Vail though continue to purchase areas near the major skiing population centers it's not going to get easier for the others.

Vail has no ski areas in the NE, which is a real head scratcher for me.

[raisingarizona13]

Vail has no ski areas in the NE, which is a real head scratcher for me.

Wow, that is surprising. Places like Wachussette (probably spelled wrong, I have no idea), Mountain Creek, and whatever areas that are close to cities such as Philly, DC, and Pittsburg would seem like the right move to make for them.

I guess I'm not following this stuff very well. Full time school will do that. Now back to algebra, I have my final tomorrow.

[ak_powder_monkey]

“Snowbird is a great ski area. Alta is one of the best 2,000-vertical-foot mountains anywhere. Park City is OK. The Canyons is not OK. Deer Valley is good. But they are not Colorado," Cohee explained. "Steamboat has 3,000 vertical feet of intermediate runs that are 200 feet wide with the best snow there is."

super long fun blue squares are what make ski areas money. Not the gnar gnar, if high end clients wanted to ski gnar they'd use helis.

Of course by that logic, Canada would dominate the market.

[brutah]

FORBES seems to disagree.... so apparently not all rich gapers seek 200 foot wide groomers.

http://www2.forbes.com/entrepreneurs...ts-in-america/

only one vail resort (vail) in this year's top ten. 2 from colorado, 3 from utah. that steamboat today article was poorly written and weakly researched.

the top ten:

10. Solitude
9. Telluride
8. Grand Targhee
7. Mammoth
6. Vail
5. Squaw
4. Alyeska Resort
3. Alta
2. Snowbird
1. Jackson Hole

[raisingarizona13]

FORBES seems to disagree.... so apparently not all rich gapers seek 200 foot wide groomers.

http://www2.forbes.com/entrepreneurs...ts-in-america/

only one vail resort (vail) in this year's top ten. 2 from colorado, 3 from utah. that steamboat today article was poorly written and weakly researched.

the top ten:

10. Solitude
9. Telluride
8. Grand Targhee
7. Mammoth
6. Vail
5. Squaw
4. Alyeska Resort
3. Alta
2. Snowbird
1. Jackson Hole

These top ten lists have been a little ridiculous. I doubt it was put together looking at visitation numbers. If it was Breck would be up in the top 3.

Men that are very rich tend to have huge ego's and often think they are better at things than they truly are, maybe that is why the Forbes top ten is filled with mostly the most well known expert terrain ski areas.

[mall walker]

Vail has no ski areas in the NE, which is a real head scratcher for me.

QFT, you'd think if they picked up Killington and Whiteface alone (advertising on the Metro North station platforms is lol) they could milk as much cash as the rest of their resorts combined. Not that NYS will sell them Whiteface... but still. The NE is a goldmine. Stowe charges like $109/day last I checked, and it's always packed.

[Benny Profane]

QFT, you'd think if they picked up Killington and Whiteface alone (advertising on the Metro North station platforms is lol) they could milk as much cash as the rest of their resorts combined. Not that NYS will sell them Whiteface... but still. The NE is a goldmine. Stowe charges like $109/day last I checked, and it's always packed.

Cuomo and his corrupt upstate pols will never give up WF. But, Killington? Perfect. Or ....... exxxceeeelllleeent (hands rubing together).

[4matic]

Peak resorts is worse. A desperate IPO at the hands of vulture capital:

It was only after doing a deeper dive on Peak Resorts that I formed the opinion that not only is SKIS to be avoided (or dumped ASAP if you were gullible enough to buy into the IPO), it is a likely a good short candidate.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2722...f-an-avalanche

[4matic]

The Vail pass is priced right around the cost of a weeks skiing. 1%ers like my brother would rather buy a pass than wait in line for a ticket. If they eat a few days so be it, and, they might come back that year if conditions are good enough.