Police Behaving Badly

[tetzen]

At this point we need a blanket rule for cops: Unless a firearm is being discharged in the police officer's general direction or at someone else within the officer's field of view, the police officer may not discharge his/her own firearm. To discharge the firearm otherwise results in a felony.

Would fix alot of bullshit in this country real quick.

[glademaster]

It won't ever happen because of the gratuitous prevalence of privately owned firearms in this country, but the average officer on patrol should not be carrying a handgun. Let them have a long gun or two in the squad car, but take their fucking sidearms away.

[stealurface831]

At this point we need a blanket rule for cops: Unless a firearm is being discharged in the police officer's general direction or at someone else within the officer's field of view, the police officer may not discharge his/her own firearm. To discharge the firearm otherwise results in a felony.

Would fix alot of bullshit in this country real quick.

define discharged. are you saying shots need to be fired before an officer can shoot? i don't know man, if someone was pointing a gun at me, i'd feel a lot better blowing them away before they get a chance to pop off a round. but i wouldn't kneel on someone's neck for eight minutes or "mistake" my taser for my sidearm.

[Toadman]

Holy crap. We really are in end times.

https://twitter.com/wkamaubell/statu...725536769?s=20

I think Pat has clearly lost his marbles and this interview indicates onset of dementia.

[Harry]

define discharged. are you saying shots need to be fired before an officer can shoot? i don't know man, if someone was pointing a gun at me, i'd feel a lot better blowing them away before they get a chance to pop off a round. but i wouldn't kneel on someone's neck for eight minutes or "mistake" my taser for my sidearm.

I did 4 deployments to the Persian Gulf as a member of our military. I had guns pointed at me ALL THE TIME. Our rules of engagement were that unless they shot at us first, we could not shoot. No one ever shot at me, they only pointed guns at me, so I never fired my weapon. If members of our military can maintain this level of discipline, surely members of law enforcement can too.


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[tetzen]

I did 4 deployments to the Persian Gulf as a member of our military. I had guns pointed at me ALL THE TIME. Our rules of engagement were that unless they shot at us first, we could not shoot. No one ever shot at me, they only pointed guns at me, so I never fired my weapon. If members of our military can maintain this level of discipline, surely members of law enforcement can too.


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Exactly this. What's not cut and dry about discharged? It means there's a round leaving the muzzle, simple as that.

Also, now we find out that cops are donating to that murderer, Kyle Rittenhouse, along with their white supremacist kinfolk:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...te-data-breach

[Cono Este]

My fbi brother in law had little respect for the average cop around town. He walked away from a lot of calls where dumb city cops were fucking with guys in hand cuffs. He always said it’s about training. He also shot some guy dead during a bank robbery when the guy rolled his car and came out firing. He was in the first vehicle, and had bullet holes in his car from the city task force officers behind him missing! I was there visiting when it happened.

As long as we have hundreds of millions of guns floating around this country, not sure what idea anyone has to change training, risk assessment etc.

Many of these shootings involve suspects who are armed, or have a history of being armed when they pull them up.

Don’t like cops much, but we’ve got bigger problems than just poorly trained, unqualified, people wearing badges and guns.

St. Louis is a war zone.


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[BC13]

Heard an interview on PBS last night--Black woman ex-cop who heads an organization that helps the mothers of Black men killed by police. Her point of view is that when cops and Black people encounter each other the underlying emotion on both parts is fear. I think that is probably true, although the fear is not symmetrical and it certainly isn't the only thing going on. When you watch the videos it's easy to see the fear on both sides. Her view is that Black people and cops have to learn over time not to be afraid of each other. How does that's supposed to happen I have no idea. I'm white, old, and well-off and I'm afraid of the cops. I didn't used to be. One thing that would help would be if the cops stopped trying to look scary--stop shaving their heads for starters, even if they are skinheads underneath. Stop screaming orders. Stop acting like they're pissing in their pants or like they're afraid their dicks will fall off if they don't make the citizen they're confronting submit.

In my line of work I spend many days per year with rank and file representatives of different police forces. The fear and intimidation factor is on point for many.

I've sat down with groups where every cop was wearing fingerless black leather gloves, shirts a size too small, had shaved heads and the smallest guy went 230 lbs. I wanted to ask them what the heck they were thinking appearing the way they did?

These guys thrived on the image they represented - the biggest baddest men in town. It was just sad and very disheartening.

I've almost worked with groups of police representatives who were extremely thoughtful and had an enlightened view of policing.

The days of shaved heads, fingerless leather gloves, pants blouses into combat boots and military appearance should be gone. Respect needs to replace fear.

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[simple]

You keep quiet with that you liberal commie /s

[abraham]

I used to work for a federal law enforcement agency, but I was an analyst with a desk, not public facing LEO with the pocket commission and/or gun.

And I think this thread is state and local oriented. Feds are a different ball of wax.

Twig pigs are pigs too?
I just always liked the rhyme, agreed that feds are a different topic.

This guy in Minnesota dragged a fucking cop with his truck while fleeing police, hit the cop in the head with a hammer, and was arrested without incident.....Guess what color he was???

https://www.complex.com/life/people-...er-with-truck/

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...an-with-hammer

A Los Angeles police officer fatally shot a man last month in Westlake after the man threw a hammer at a group of officers who had followed him on foot for several blocks and fired hard foam projectiles at him

[Toadman]

Roid rage with a gun and a badge.

[old goat]

I did 4 deployments to the Persian Gulf as a member of our military. I had guns pointed at me ALL THE TIME. Our rules of engagement were that unless they shot at us first, we could not shoot. No one ever shot at me, they only pointed guns at me, so I never fired my weapon. If members of our military can maintain this level of discipline, surely members of law enforcement can too.


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In the Persian Gulf we were trying to win hearts and minds. The cops don't give a shit about the hearts and minds of US citizens, especially the non-white ones. In the military if you disobey an order there are consequences and no union to get you off the hook.

[skifishbum]

winnin hearts and minds aint part of any defend the country oath gramps
stick to whatcha know
if bad parenting caused as much angst as bad policing
well the kid might not be dead

[old goat]

winnin hearts and minds aint part of any defend the country oath gramps
stick to whatcha know
if bad parenting caused as much angst as bad policing
well the kid might not be dead

I know that the rules of engagement in Iraq at times were based on the idea of avoiding civilian casualties so as not to get kicked out of the country--ie hearts and minds (which by the way has been a sarcastic term since it was used seriously in Vietnam). That's been well documented. Whether the ROE were always followed and whether they worked I don't claim to know. The point is--in Iraq American soldiers were subjected to a certain amount of risk to spare Iraqi lives, while in the US police are apparently allowed to minimize their personal risk at the expense of lives lost in the community.

As far as bad parenting goes, we do have a parenting thread, although I don't believe the subject of keeping your kids from running around with guns has come up yet. But maybe you'd like to contribute. I do know that plenty of well-parented kids go bad and badly--parented kids do well. Quality of parenting is certainly part of the equation but not all of it. I don't know anything about how well Adam Toledo was parented.

As far as "gramps"--looked in the mirror lately?

[happytimefunbox]

Know your rights

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[skifishbum]

I know that the rules of engagement in Iraq at times were based on the idea of avoiding civilian casualties so as not to get kicked out of the country--ie hearts and minds (which by the way has been a sarcastic term since it was used seriously in Vietnam). That's been well documented. Whether the ROE were always followed and whether they worked I don't claim to know. The point is--in Iraq American soldiers were subjected to a certain amount of risk to spare Iraqi lives, while in the US police are apparently allowed to minimize their personal risk at the expense of lives lost in the community.

As far as bad parenting goes, we do have a parenting thread, although I don't believe the subject of keeping your kids from running around with guns has come up yet. But maybe you'd like to contribute. I do know that plenty of well-parented kids go bad and badly--parented kids do well. Quality of parenting is certainly part of the equation but not all of it. I don't know anything about how well Adam Toledo was parented.

As far as "gramps"--looked in the mirror lately?

aint a lot of scenarios were 13 yo gat carrying kids are out at 2:30 am bustin caps that involve good parenting is there?
dad?

[petey_]

aint a lot of scenarios were 13 yo gat carrying kids are out at 2:30 am bustin caps that involve good parenting is there?
dad?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh2x_G0ct4

[old_newguy]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...aw-enforcement

White Supremacists In Law Enforcement.

A problem identified a decade and a half ago.

I’ve read that ICE and CPB are also hotbeds.

[old_newguy]

aint a lot of scenarios were 13 yo gat carrying kids are out at 2:30 am bustin caps that involve good parenting is there?
dad?

It helps if you systematically put the fathers in jail.

[Core Shot]

winnin hearts and minds aint part of any defend the country oath gramps
stick to whatcha know
if bad parenting caused as much angst as bad policing
well the kid might not be dead

Don’t be hatin on “lil homocide”
He be the bestest 13 year old on the west side.
He was only out at 3am to buy some milk for his sisters breakfast.

[Flounder]

aint a lot of scenarios were 13 yo gat carrying kids are out at 2:30 am bustin caps that involve good parenting is there?
dad?

You’re right it’s shitty parenting. So the solution to shitty parents is to execute their kids? Problem solved I guess.

[BobMc]

Don’t be hatin on “lil homocide”
He be the bestest 13 year old on the west side.
He was only out at 3am to buy some milk for his sisters breakfast.

I was a shit head as a teen, we were poor and I did bad things to get stuff I wanted. I broke into cars, shoplifted, stole and sold weed, among other things. Been in jail a few times, nothing long but certainly had interactions with police on a number of occasions. Luckily I was never shot at although I have had police officers pointing guns at me. (I’m white)

I grew up and changed myself, became a better person with lessons I learned while being a not so good person.

Were you a good person as a teen and did you only become a shit head as you got older?

[ex-powderbroker]

core shot is really into the constitution as written. and also the unwritten part about the extrajudicial killing of minors by cops. cause... they’re minorities? bad kids? gay? idk pick a reason.

[Core Shot]

Lol.
Not lol at the poor kid dead.
His destiny was written years before. Sad.
But ok. Keep pushing that narrative.
If you haven’t been in the wrong neighborhoods you have no idea.
Chiraq PD showed up after 8 rounds fired. Kid ran with gun in hand. Dropped it a second before being shot. It sucks. Stupid games stupid prizes.

[ex-powderbroker]

so you’re not lol’ing at “lil homocide”?

jokes on me then.