Police Behaving Badly

[liv2ski]

As an old white law-abiding well-off guy I've had enough negative interactions with police that I am frightened of them and do not trust them. I can barely begin to imagine what I would feel about cops if I were none of those things. I think a lot more Americans are starting to feel the same way. Unfortunately, as police sense growing opposition from the public they're going to hunker down and double down and things will get worse before they get better.

Same boat and agreed. Only way to slow the double down down is no qualified immunity, lawsuits paid from union pension or insurance fund.

[liv2ski]

Murders per 100,000, Canada 1.82 US 4.96

Completely pointless comparison, violent crime in the U.S. is far higher than Canada. If you take in consideration that most murders in the U.S. occur in urban areas its far worse. St Louis's murder rate is 87 per 100,000, Chicago in 2019 (2020 was far worse) was 18.2 per 100,000. While checking this number came up, last year in Chicago 79 police officers were wounded. Why anyone would want to be a police officer in one of these violent cities is beyond me.

Different department with different rules. Combat pay and carte blanche to shoot the gang bangers and drug dealers?

[Benny Profane]

Same boat and agreed. Only way to slow the double down down is no qualified immunity, lawsuits paid from union pension or insurance fund.

Or, to start, lose the pension if convicted of commiting a felony on the job. I know that may sound obvious, but, there are two NYC detectives in jail for doing mob hits on the side, but, collecting taxpayer funded retirement payments. That woman in Ohio who confused her gun with her tazer will probably buy a lot of cigarettes in jail with her nearly 25 year service pension, if convicted.

[Ted Striker]

The US/Canada comparisons are meaningless because gun laws.

[Core Shot]

Different department with different rules. Combat pay and carte blanche to shoot the gang bangers and drug dealers?

But not counterfeit spending junkies. #sarc

Chicago is royally fucked. And Chicago cops were always dicks. Always will be.

[liv2ski]

[TBS]

This is what police are:



They just do whatever they want because it’s a good bet even when they’re wrong they’ll be protected, and even when they’re not protected the punishment is minor.

Yup.
Even though both the SLC cop and the UofU security officer were fired, and the firings upheld in arbitration, both were rehired - by Weber county.

[seano732]

Yup.
Even though both the SLC cop and the UofU security officer were fired, and the firings upheld in arbitration, both were rehired - by Weber county.

Are you fucking kidding me?????

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yup.
Even though both the SLC cop and the UofU security officer were fired, and the firings upheld in arbitration, both were rehired - by Weber county.

Technically he wasn’t rehired. He’s also suing the SLC PD for wrongful termination


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[Mazderati]

The police officer who pepper sprayed the Berkley students also got paid after claiming mental distress. Not surprising.

[zion zig zag]

Yup.
Even though both the SLC cop and the UofU security officer were fired, and the firings upheld in arbitration, both were rehired - by Weber county.

He was hired into a non-law enforcement role at the Weber county jail. He was a long time paramedic with Gold Cross ambulance so the jail hired him as a medical assistant, part-time. Not saying it's right or wrong, just that facts matter.

[dunfree]

Murders per 100,000, Canada 1.82 US 4.96

Completely pointless comparison, violent crime in the U.S. is far higher than Canada. If you take in consideration that most murders in the U.S. occur in urban areas its far worse. St Louis's murder rate is 87 per 100,000, Chicago in 2019 (2020 was far worse) was 18.2 per 100,000. While checking this number came up, last year in Chicago 79 police officers were wounded. Why anyone would want to be a police officer in one of these violent cities is beyond me.

BTW, you may not have to worry about defunding police in Chgo. So many officers are retiring and when they had the latest Police exam they sent out over 1000 letters and emails to applicants to take what is called the Power Test, 70 showed up and 1/3 of those failed the test. For Jan, Feb & March the retirement number is over 400.

Cop defenders are the best advocates for defunding the police. No nothing puds marinated in “conservative” news that has convinced them it’s the 80s.

not that facts matter a damn to cops or cop defenders who just lie, but it’s 79 officers who were shot at, only 10 were struck by bullets

[simple]

Yup

[mfcf13]

How do you know I like or don't like Bernie?

As for your little screed, Really? Like the NYC, L.A., and Chicago P.D.s are bastions of justice and understanding for the common folk, after, what, billions of dollars in payments to citizens they wronged? They've changed?

Highangle, right? That's my new guess.

Gawd, you really are stupid. It is the municipality/insurance company/tax payer that bears the cost of those lawsuits. Not the police departments.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/19/91417...-and-taxpayers

If you're going to be such a blowhard, at least don't be an idiotic uninformed blowhard.

As for you're Bernie love, that's pretty well documented.

And I am not HighAngle.

[ex-powderbroker]

The US/Canada comparisons are meaningless because gun laws.

I don't think it's meaningless, it's the point. There is no reason we need a highly militarized police otherwise. That is why our death rate is the same as war torn countries. All of these deaths are self inflicted whether it is by cop, by abundantly available handguns, or because of a lack of access to mental health care. And for the latter, you can't entirely blame police for being scared even if the numbers don't bear it out (they are told traffic stops are dangerous, when they are only 1/6000000 of the time etc)

[XXX-er]

a huge amount of those murders up here are gang related, some one will get hit in a p-lot and you read about the victims being "known to police" so they are hitting each other

Ask "what kind of guns do you own?" on a canadian site and there isnt enough collective firepower to take over a retirement home

Ask same question on an American site and there will be enough weaponrey to take over a small carribean nation and probably the military back ground too

a lot of cops up here are RCMP so they all go thru the same basic training in saskatchewan

[Ted Striker]

I don't think it's meaningless, it's the point. There is no reason we need a highly militarized police otherwise. That is why our death rate is the same as war torn countries. All of these deaths are self inflicted whether it is by cop, by abundantly available handguns, or because of a lack of access to mental health care. And for the latter, you can't entirely blame police for being scared even if the numbers don't bear it out (they are told traffic stops are dangerous, when they are only 1/6000000 of the time etc)

Agree.

I should've used the quote function, because I was responding to bigdude's take on St Louis and Chicago. Whether or not he's intentionally repeating an NRA talking point, that's their answer: those places are inherently violent. Which is really code for 'those people' are inherently violent.

[altacoup]

I don’t feel safer around police. They’re predatory. There’s a whole system of police, courts, lawyers, jails, prisons, counselors, administrators, service and facility workers in all those organizations.... that all depend on capturing random people and squeezing the life out of them. It all starts with bored police roaming around scrutinizing everything to make work for themselves and shitty Karens who can deploy this machine against anyone they have a conflict with.

So yeah, actually, getting rid of that would be fine with me.

I have seen two places go from no police (both places were like, if you called police you’d get somebody there in 45 minutes or an hour) to having police and both were worse off... because it’s not about safety and preventing crime, the police end up being just another predator causing more trouble than they prevent. You still get your house broken into, and you also get pulled over trying to come and go from work and there’s some douchebag cop in town now and his whole family who know they can be assholes and do whatever they want because they’re with the cops. I’ve seen it happen. The whole system is built to be abused.

It’s weird, I have never in my life had an interaction with the police, even if I called them, where I felt like they were not on edge.

I called last year to turn in a wallet I found on the ground. No ID, but had cash etc in it. Fucking cop partner was like at the ready position, staring me down the entire time as I stood there in my flip flops and shorts as a middle aged white guy in a nice neighborhood. Not a “hey, thanks for doing the right thing” or a smile or anything from either of them.

I called you guy, you think I’m a threat? Can’t imagine how they deal with everyone else on a daily basis.

Quoting both these posts for truth. And while I don’t advocate for abolishing the police. They are totally ineffective at preventing crime. They end up creating as many criminals (as people fall into the penal system for minor offenses) as they take off the streets. They’re training is down right pathetic based upon their performance. I have absolutely zero respect for most cops. I have no criminal history and only one traffic ticket from when I was 16. And I’ve still had shitty interactions with them. When I lived in Europe it’s was very evident how much better trained cops there are. Plus they aren’t constantly hiding in their vehicles trying to tax people for minor infractions. Cops in the USA are a self serving group that taxes the poor to keep them down. As Huey P said the police only become necessary to protect those that have from those that don’t

[MiddleOfNight]

There current training is a huge problem. But I do agree they need more training, just very different training than what they are getting. Interesting perspective and results from a small sample of police that got training from Rener Gracie (of the famous Gracie jujitsu family) and his schools.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000517415557

Interesting, thanks.
Agreed, more of the same training isn't the answer.

[Dantheman]

I called last year to turn in a wallet I found on the ground. No ID, but had cash etc in it. Fucking cop partner was like at the ready position, staring me down the entire time as I stood there in my flip flops and shorts as a middle aged white guy in a nice neighborhood. Not a “hey, thanks for doing the right thing” or a smile or anything from either of them.

I have hundo that says they split the cash and chucked the wallet in the trash.

[Benny Profane]

Gawd, you really are stupid. It is the municipality/insurance company/tax payer that bears the cost of those lawsuits. Not the police departments.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/19/91417...-and-taxpayers

If you're going to be such a blowhard, at least don't be an idiotic uninformed blowhard.

As for you're Bernie love, that's pretty well documented.

And I am not HighAngle.

Oh, so, you must drive around and get into fifty accidents, and your insurance company never raises your rates. Genius.

And, maybe I like Bernie, maybe not, but you just joined the forum in Nov. 0f last year, so what would you know?

Now I have to wait until you can borrow your Mom's phone to respond. No whoop, I'll be around.

[mfcf13]

Oh, so, you must drive around and get into fifty accidents, and your insurance company never raises your rates. Genius.

And, maybe I like Bernie, maybe not, but you just joined the forum in Nov. 0f last year, so what would you know?

Now I have to wait until you can borrow your Mom's phone to respond. No whoop, I'll be around.

The municipality is the entity that will experience an increase in rates. Not the police department. You must be able to comprehend that basic fact, right?

And if the city or county council is upset at the police dept for bad behavior that results in a lawsuit, they aren't likely to axe the police budget (unless they are willing to receive political blowback from the police union and their allies). So the cuts are likely to come from other departments. Or the city is likely to raise taxes.

You're dense.

[Benny Profane]

The municipality is the entity that will experience an increase in rates. Not the police department. You must be able to comprehend that basic fact, right?

And if the city or county council is upset at the police dept for bad behavior that results in a lawsuit, they aren't likely to axe the police budget (unless they are willing to receive political blowback from the police union and their allies). So the cuts are likely to come from other departments. Or the city is likely to raise taxes.

You're dense.

So, you just told me that the police department is somehow divorced from the finances of the municipality, right? I want to just get that straight before I sign off. That's something. Maybe I'll make some popcorn.

Are you a cop? How else could you type that?

[Benny Profane]

Oh, and you haven't explained that Nov. 2020 join date. Just a reminder.

[mfcf13]

So, you just told me that the police department is somehow divorced from the finances of the municipality, right? I want to just get that straight before I sign off. That's something. Maybe I'll make some popcorn.

Are you a cop? How else could you type that?

Are you an alzheimer patient? How else could you type that?

For instance: the Floyd family sued the city of Minneapolis, not the Minneapolis Police Dept. If you believe that the $27 million lawsuit settlement amount was directly pulled from the police dept budget, you are even dumber than I thought. In case you missed it, the police department has pretty strong political position (they are a union, so dems are going to support them. And I probably don't need to tell you why Republicans support them). They're not experiencing a financial hit when their cops have bad behavior and draw a lawsuit.
Read the article I posted, maybe you'll agree that if your man crush Bernie wanted to do something useful he'd push for legislation that shifted liability from the municipality to the police dept. But he's too lazy, so I don't think he'll do anything.

I'm sorry I don't have a long history of posting here like you. I was a "longtime listener, first time caller". I'm going to get outside, have fun ranting more on here. And don't fuck with SVS again.