What's Blizzard up to?

[banzai]

Anybody able to share a rocker/camber photo of the new old 186 Bodacious? The black AB remake.

Or measurments of the rocker and camber profiles?

https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22
I could snap a few photos if the above is insufficient.

[sf]

https://compareskis.shinyapps.io/com...=%22Compare%22
I could snap a few photos if the above is insufficient.

Thanks. I used it, but couldn't quite visualize the camber.
Less bending stiffness than expected though - which is good.

If you can post up a pic or two it would be helpful

[Bandit Man]

Anybody able to share a rocker/camber photo of the new old 186 Bodacious? The black AB remake.

Or measurments of the rocker and camber profiles?

I may be wrong, but I don’t think Blizzard ever tweaked the rocker profile on the metal Bodacious. What’s wrong with the rocker pics Blister has posted for that ski?

[PNW-skier78]

Anybody able to share a rocker/camber photo of the new old 186 Bodacious? The black AB remake.

Or measurments of the rocker and camber profiles?

Do you want a pic with the bases facing each other or do you have something else in mind. Luckily for you I have a pair unmounted in the basement so I can get you a pic.


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[banzai]

Thanks. I used it, but couldn't quite visualize the camber.
Less bending stiffness than expected though - which is good.

If you can post up a pic or two it would be helpful

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[sf]

I may be wrong, but I don’t think Blizzard ever tweaked the rocker profile on the metal Bodacious. What’s wrong with the rocker pics Blister has posted for that ski?

Nothing. Just my brain not functioning properly these days. Work, baby etc

Do you want a pic with the bases facing each other or do you have something else in mind. Luckily for you I have a pair unmounted in the basement so I can get you a pic.


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Thanks, but banzai came through

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Excellent. Thanks.
Now to decide if I need another 115-ish ski...

[bry]

Some great shape OG Cochise in 193 with pivot 14s for $275. I emailed them and they said 305 bsl, 303 cranked down fit well they said.

https://lonepinegearx.com/products/b...bindings-1d03d

Go get 'em!



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[gregorys]

Anybody able to share a rocker/camber photo of the new old 186 Bodacious? The black AB remake.

Or measurments of the rocker and camber profiles?

Several other replies beat me to it, but I have both an OG and the new black pair.
They are _very_ close. My black ones perhaps have slightly more camber - but it's super easy to flatten them out, so it's very small in any case.
Splay and rise in the tips and tails are also very close.

What do you mean, you have to decide if you need _another_ ski in the 115-120 slot.
This isn't just "another" ski.

This is the Bodacious.

[PNW-skier78]

I may be wrong, but I don’t think Blizzard ever tweaked the rocker profile on the metal Bodacious. What’s wrong with the rocker pics Blister has posted for that ski?

They actually had a very very minor change in the rocker. I own the 14/15 that is in the blister review below and there is a very minor amount of camber. I also have a pair of the latest black bodacious that I am saving for when the 14/15 dies. It is completely flat w zero camber. I read somewhere their press had a tolerance of about 1 mm. I doubt it is big enough difference to impact the performance of the ski.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...zard-bodacious


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[sf]

Thanks.

It is also a difference in the stated sidecut 32/30,5, but the tip/waist/tail seems the same.

Doesn't really matter if they are exactly the same, as I never skied the OGs

[kid-kapow]

Now to decide if I need another 115-ish ski...

Of course you do, especially as the good folks over at Sport Bittl are more than happy to kit you out with a pair at a fairly decent price - provided that the 186 is the size you are after and that this is the correct version

[aanev]

Of course you do, especially as the good folks over at Sport Bittl are more than happy to kit you out with a pair at a fairly decent price - provided that the 186 is the size you are after and that this is the correct version

Just snatched a pair of 180 '82 Brahmas from them

[kid-kapow]

man, you are building quite the quiver of directional chargers

[sf]

Of course you do, especially as the good folks over at Sport Bittl are more than happy to kit you out with a pair at a fairly decent price - provided that the 186 is the size you are after and that this is the correct version

Yup
However, as you know, not many places around here have the terrain for this kind of skis.
Always end up back at BGs for soft and cut up

[Gweilo]

Looks like the double bumps are back on this year Zero Gs. Anyone skiing them on the forward mount caring to report ?

I am on the backward one but will be getting a new pair from customer service and considering mounting them a bit more centered « a la rustlers ».

Some feedback would be appreciated !




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[MD12]

Just one thought - I have these in 183 as well as M102s, M6, sold my enforcer 94s and have a dozen other pairs of skis. While these aren’t my favorite and I wouldn’t keep them if I only had 2-3 pairs, there are a dozen or so days a year where I’m skiing by myself, really feeling it, and want to rip hard as shit and there is nothing like being on these bad boys - these skis are so unique compared to other stuff available right now. If you can keep them (or for others who may be inteterested), throw some raw pivot 15s on them and have the time of your life.

Edit: this is in response to the post selling the bonafide 97s in 183.

[sf]

So, I went over to a buddy and checked out his non-metal 185 Bodaciouses. Then comparede it to the 186 2020 in the ski-comparer.

According to the s-c the non-metal is stiffer with regards to both bending and twisting, which contradicts every review I've ever read. In addition the numbers in the s-c compared to other skis seems a bit off. Lots of examples both for instance the 11/12 Billygoat is rated a lot stiffer than both.

Am I mistaken about the relationship between the two versions? Or just not reading the data correctly?

[apex dave]

Several other replies beat me to it, but I have both an OG and the new black pair.
They are _very_ close. My black ones perhaps have slightly more camber - but it's super easy to flatten them out, so it's very small in any case.
Splay and rise in the tips and tails are also very close.

What do you mean, you have to decide if you need _another_ ski in the 115-120 slot.
This isn't just "another" ski.

As a point of interest the original Cochise had zero camber then they changed it. I have the OGs and they are the best.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

As a point of interest the original Cochise had zero camber then they changed it. I have the OGs and they are the best.

Yeah, I think they claimed that they added a bit of camber in year 3 of the OG Cochise? But I was never convinced they actually changed the molds. There were year 1 examples that had a tiny bit of camber and year 3 examples that were flat. My guess is that they had more skis coming out with camber than not (perhaps do to some change in materials) so they claimed it was on purpose. And they all skis the same anyway (great).

[HAB]

So, I went over to a buddy and checked out his non-metal 185 Bodaciouses. Then comparede it to the 186 2020 in the ski-comparer.

According to the s-c the non-metal is stiffer with regards to both bending and twisting, which contradicts every review I've ever read. In addition the numbers in the s-c compared to other skis seems a bit off. Lots of examples both for instance the 11/12 Billygoat is rated a lot stiffer than both.

Am I mistaken about the relationship between the two versions? Or just not reading the data correctly?

My actual OGs and black reissues both have a very very tiny amount of camber (<1mm) but aren't quite truly flat. Flex is at least very close (the OGs are maybe a tiny bit stiffer, but they also have way fewer days on them). They're not noodles, but they're not a super stiff ski by any stretch.

My OG Cochise are truly flat, FWIW.

[gregL]

My actual OGs and black reissues both have a very very tiny amount of camber (<1mm) but aren't quite truly flat. Flex is at least very close (the OGs are maybe a tiny bit stiffer, but they also have way fewer days on them). They're not noodles, but they're not a super stiff ski by any stretch.

My OG Cochise are truly flat, FWIW.

Don't have the OG Bodacious to compare, but my 14/15 pair has slightly less tip rocker (10mm) and slightly more tail rocker (10mm) than the black resurrection pair I own.

[alude]

So, I went over to a buddy and checked out his non-metal 185 Bodaciouses. Then comparede it to the 186 2020 in the ski-comparer.

According to the s-c the non-metal is stiffer with regards to both bending and twisting, which contradicts every review I've ever read. In addition the numbers in the s-c compared to other skis seems a bit off. Lots of examples both for instance the 11/12 Billygoat is rated a lot stiffer than both.

Am I mistaken about the relationship between the two versions? Or just not reading the data correctly?

You are reading the data correctly. A few things to consider:

- The BB185 16/17 is only 7% stiffer than the BB186 19/20 in bending. This is overall a tiny difference, on the order of manufacturing variations. The horizontal scale of the torsion vs bending stiffnesses graph is misleading. It spreads the bending data way too much. We will change that.

- The BB185 16/17 is 17% stiffer than the BB186 19/20 in torsion. This is more likely to be intentional. However, the taper of the 16/17 is huge compared to the 19/20. Both torsional stiffness and taper (and other geometrical factors) are usually working together to influence the on-snow feel...

- Which reviews are you referring to? I couldn't find anything comparing these two skis...

- If you are using the Sooth Comparator, I would assume that you are comparing the Bodacious 185-186 to the 11/12 Billygoat in 191 cm (the longest length if I am not mistaken). The 196 version of the Bodacious is likely to be much stiffer (it is longer and heavier @ 2.7 kg instead of 2.2-2.4 kg). Which lengths are you comparing? Which lengths are the reviews comparing? It is important to remember that stiffnesses scales up with ski length... longer skis are generally designed to be stiffer to offer the same feel.

** Start of nerd note **
You need to be careful when you compare the EI number we provide to hand flex tests. When you hand flex a ski, you put a force and you "measure" the deflection. What you measure with your hand depends also on the distance between the supports (i.e., your upper hand and the ground). As an example, if you have a flat plate and stretch it 10 cm longer, keeping the exact same construction, it will feel softer in a hand flex test. That is because of the longer distance between the supports, as the deflection for a given force scales with the length of the plate cubed (http://mi.eng.cam.ac.uk/IALego/bende...end_theory.pdf). The number we put out there, for now, is the EI value. This is related to the local construction of the plate/ski. If you have a longer ski you will want a larger EI to compensate for the additional length (and also for the fact that you typically put a bigger/stronger skier on longer skis). Neither hand flex or average EI is perfect, and we are working toward putting numbers out there that are more representative. Suggestions are welcome, we can calculate anything from our measurements. We want it to be useful.
** End of nerd note **

[sf]

You are reading the data correctly. A few things to consider:

- The BB185 16/17 is only 7% stiffer than the BB186 19/20 in bending. This is overall a tiny difference, on the order of manufacturing variations. The horizontal scale of the torsion vs bending stiffnesses graph is misleading. It spreads the bending data way too much. We will change that.

- The BB185 16/17 is 17% stiffer than the BB186 19/20 in torsion. This is more likely to be intentional. However, the taper of the 16/17 is huge compared to the 19/20. Both torsional stiffness and taper (and other geometrical factors) are usually working together to influence the on-snow feel...

- Which reviews are you referring to? I couldn't find anything comparing these two skis...

- If you are using the Sooth Comparator, I would assume that you are comparing the Bodacious 185-186 to the 11/12 Billygoat in 191 cm (the longest length if I am not mistaken). The 196 version of the Bodacious is likely to be much stiffer (it is longer and heavier @ 2.7 kg instead of 2.2-2.4 kg). Which lengths are you comparing? Which lengths are the reviews comparing? It is important to remember that stiffnesses scales up with ski length... longer skis are generally designed to be stiffer to offer the same feel.

** Start of nerd note **
You need to be careful when you compare the EI number we provide to hand flex tests. When you hand flex a ski, you put a force and you "measure" the deflection. What you measure with your hand depends also on the distance between the supports (i.e., your upper hand and the ground). As an example, if you have a flat plate and stretch it 10 cm longer, keeping the exact same construction, it will feel softer in a hand flex test. That is because of the longer distance between the supports, as the deflection for a given force scales with the length of the plate cubed (http://mi.eng.cam.ac.uk/IALego/bende...end_theory.pdf). The number we put out there, for now, is the EI value. This is related to the local construction of the plate/ski. If you have a longer ski you will want a larger EI to compensate for the additional length (and also for the fact that you typically put a bigger/stronger skier on longer skis). Neither hand flex or average EI is perfect, and we are working toward putting numbers out there that are more representative. Suggestions are welcome, we can calculate anything from our measurements. We want it to be useful.
** End of nerd note **

Overall, excellent answer - thanks for the background on how you test.

My confusion comes from the fact that most people and reviews talk about about the metal-Bodacious as a pretty serious ski, needing speed, skilled/strong/heavy driver etc. While on your graph several skis that are talked about as more mellow or playful skis - for example Bentchetler 120s and Rustler 10s are 10-15% stiffer to bend. But as you mention; there are other factors than just flex at play here.

Regarding your question about review the Friflyt skitest has data on both metal and non-metal Bodacious. The metal is rated at 7-6-5-5-6 tail to tip, and the non-metal at 5-6-6-5-4. But then again, those numbers are neither extremely high/stiff, nor so far off from one another that it can not be explained by manufacturing tolerances I guess.
For reference, they rate the Bentchetler 120 at 4-5-5-5-5, the same as the Rustler 10.

Anyhow, excellent resource. Together with the Friflyt-data it really makes it easy to do ski-research.

[Bandit Man]

The Bodacious came out in 2012. There has been a decade of skiers on them before the nerdy data-driven analysis existed. It is an amazing ski for what it is...118-mm waist, 2.5 sheets of metal, 30-m+ turn radius, generous rocker and flat camber/nearly flat camber. The "spurred" version was a different ski, IMO.

The metal-layered Bodacious is more like a fat big-mtn ski than a powder ski. They destroy crud and love speed. From my time on the 186 version, they need speed to come alive and then they are very manageable. They make a big western mountain fun and a small to medium mountain feel minute.

The sizing was my challenge for the OG Bodacious. The 196 felt too big for most days and the 186 felt like it benefit from being longer. I sold them the first time I got laid off and often wished I had kept them. In reality, my fleet of Billy Goats is really the reason I sold them, as they do just about everything the OG Bod did for me, but are far more fun a slower speeds and in tighter quarters. In all honesty, I think most of us dream about being a Bodacious kind of skier, when in reality, they are likely overkill for all but the hardest chargers or speed freaks. That doesn't mean that they are hard to ski, per se, but rather they are the wrong tool for most days. Something like an OG Cochise or OG Katana do the same things but are far more versatile.

Anyhow, I'll let you guys get back to your intimate spreadsheet session. Wouldn't want subjective info from someone who has actually skied them mess with the beauty of the data analysis paralysis day dream.

[XavierD]

The OG bodacious should have come in a 191/183/175cm size package.