Ski Instructor Pay- Details

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 09:39 AM

Some Ski Schools publicly post how they pay their Instructors, while others are more circumspect. Does anyone have information on how ski schools pay their instructors? The following are publicly available online.

Copper Mountain- http://www.copperskiandrideschool.co...%2012.1.13.pdf
Certification Starting Pay Rate
Uncertified $10.00
PSIA/AASI Level 1: $11.00
PSIA/AASI Level 2: $12.00
PSIA/AASI Level 3: $15.00
PSIA/AASI TA, Examiner, etc. $20.00

Vail/Beaver Creek- http://skijob1.snow.com/BcSrsAssets/...ges_draft2.pdf (from 2011-12, but virtually unchanged for 2014-15)
Entry Base Wage Rates (page 65)
Entry Rates
Certification/Credential Entry Base
Non-certified New Hire $9.95
Level 1 certified $10.95
Level 2 certified $12.95
Level 3 certified $14.95
Trainers Accreditation* $20.20
E1 Examiner* $21.19 E2 Examiner* $22.46
E3 Examiner* $24.28
Current ISIA Demo Team Member $25.27
Current PSIA Demo Team Member $26.27

Can anyone add to this list? How has pay at your resort changed over the years?

At the Vail Resorts properties, starting Instructor pay has been frozen for many years despite lesson prices going up-now $850 to $915 for an All Day (6 hour) private at Vail and Beaver Creek.
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**peace_coast** · 12-01-2014, 09:52 AM

Low hours, short season, inconsistent work, low pay - there's exceptions, but in general, making money as a ski instructor in the U.S. is a joke. And, on top of that, you have to work with a bunch of grumpy old PSIA windbags that hate fun and resent you for still thinking skiing should be fun. I encourage aspiring ski bums to avoid instructing and get jobs cleaning toilets, washing dishes, flipping burgers, giving fireside hand jobs to tourists spending the average yearly ski town salary on each day of vacation, or anything else that might allow you to make rent each month.

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 10:02 AM

peace_coast you might enjoy http://youtu.be/6g855fDt9dQ (or the shorter version http://youtu.be/wPjfDH_qs9s)

**skew** · 12-01-2014, 11:08 AM

Ski instructors get paid?

**Harry** · 12-01-2014, 11:12 AM

Didn't the OP do a similar post a month ago ?

**Peruvian** · 12-01-2014, 11:19 AM

$10-15/hr, free pass (some resorts include spouse or family passes), discounts on food and services, and ability to earn tips. STFU.

**powdork** · 12-01-2014, 11:21 AM

^^yes he did
i think the problem is not necessarily the instructor pay but the disparity between the pay and the cost of a lesson. bring the cost back down to earth and demand would go up to where coaches could get more hours and more consistent work

**powdork** · 12-01-2014, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Peruvian

$10-15/hr, free pass (some resorts include spouse or family passes), discounts on food and services, and ability to earn tips. STFU.

$10-$15/hour isn't much when you get 20 hours a week but have to be available for work much more than that. and the food discounts bring a $18 burger down to $10

**Cocximus** · 12-01-2014, 11:41 AM

Unionize.

Really you have my symphaty.

I would take some lessons myself to clarify if I need to lift a ski, but at the prices resorts charge I rather buy carbon poles of something to improve my skills.

**jm020** · 12-01-2014, 11:59 AM

You are getting a free pass. If you aren't happy with your job/pay, quit. Yes, it sucks that they charge 800 and you get 20, but that is the way corporations work, and pay is historically low in ski towns due to the fact that every ski bum in the US wants a job there.

If you don't like your pay, start your own company, give lessons on the side, do something. Crying that you don't make enough in a forum just isn't going to do it.....

and LOL @ the unionize recommendation.

**Peruvian** · 12-01-2014, 12:01 PM

Isn't 10% of a higher lesson fee more than 10% of a lower lesson fee?

I know not everyone follows that and there are plenty that don't tip at all, but it seems unlikely they would tip regardless of the fee.

**muted** · 12-01-2014, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by jm020

You are getting a free pass. If you aren't happy with your job/pay, quit. Yes, it sucks that they charge 800 and you get 20, but that is the way corporations work, and pay is historically low in ski towns due to the fact that every ski bum in the US wants a job there.

If you don't like your pay, start your own company, give lessons on the side, do something. Crying that you don't make enough in a forum just isn't going to do it.....

and LOL @ the unionize recommendation.

Thanks Mr Burns for the useless feedback and asshole opinion.

And lessons on the side? I'm sure Vail would love to accommodate that for him and have him cut into their 800/hour business. Good thinking.

**tylerjames** · 12-01-2014, 12:27 PM

I used to teach at a couple places in Southern Vermont:

Mount Snow:

New Hire: 9 doll hairs
Level 1 PSIA (Probably Stay Inside Anyway) or an in-house equivalent: 10.fiddy fun tickets
Level 2 PSIA (People Say I'm Awesome) or an in-house equivalent: 12 pesos
Level 3 PSIA (Poor Skiers Imitating Austrians) or an in-house equivalent: 13.fiddy

Private requests would bump you up to an extra 20 bucks per hr or 30 if its a multi-request.

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by muted

Thanks Mr Burns for the useless feedback and asshole opinion.

And lessons on the side? I'm sure Vail would love to accommodate that for him and have him cut into their 800/hour business. Good thinking.

I actually think is is good thinking. In Japan, Italy and other places, multiple ski schools and independent Instructors are legally allowed to teach and compete in a free market. The U.S. Forest Service Special Use Permit that allows Vail to conduct their Ski School business on land that is owned by every citizen is NON-EXCLUSIVE and allows the Forest Service issue additional permits. In theory, the US Forest service could issue permits to competing ski schools (like they do with River Rafting companies), but the reality is that they follow a 100 year old "Regulated Monopoly" policy (promoted by a guy who suffered from bi polar disorder).

Currently, if you try to "teach on the side" and get caught, you are banned from all Vail Resort properties for life.

Personally, I don't think Vail Resorts needs the government protection it is receiving. Part of the reason for this thread is to get some public support to encourage the Forest Service to consider ski school competition in the future.

**powdork** · 12-01-2014, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by FairWages

Currently, if you try to "teach on the side" and get caught, you are banned from all Vail Resort properties for life.

Here at Heavenly, they have conducted stings and pressed charges.

**sirbumpsalot** · 12-01-2014, 01:01 PM

The resort charges $150/hr for private lessons and pay these guys $15?????

**meter-man** · 12-01-2014, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by FairWages

I actually think is is good thinking. In Japan, Italy and other places, multiple ski schools and independent Instructors are legally allowed to teach and compete in a free market. The U.S. Forest Service Special Use Permit that allows Vail to conduct their Ski School business on land that is owned by every citizen is NON-EXCLUSIVE and allows the Forest Service issue additional permits. In theory, the US Forest service could issue permits to competing ski schools (like they do with River Rafting companies), but the reality is that they follow a 100 year old "Regulated Monopoly" policy (promoted by a guy who suffered from bi polar disorder).

Currently, if you try to "teach on the side" and get caught, you are banned from all Vail Resort properties for life.

Personally, I don't think Vail Resorts needs the government protection it is receiving. Part of the reason for this thread is to get some public support to encourage the Forest Service to consider ski school competition in the future.

Good luck. Getting these policies changed would be a huge lift. But I hope you are successful.

That said, TGR is probably not the best place to get support for your efforts. You might have more luck over at Epicski.

**thewon** · 12-01-2014, 01:06 PM

paging bushwackerinpa......

**thewon** · 12-01-2014, 01:09 PM

and don't forget about tips. i used to make over 100 bux on average for a 4 person "private" at burke in less than 2 hours.

sometimes 150.00. free ski in the am, 2 lineups, free ski after 2:30.

food was cheap too. under 5 bux for a really good lunch.

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

Good luck. Getting these policies changed would be a huge lift. But I hope you are successful.

That said, TGR is probably not the best place to get support for your efforts. You might have more luck over at Epicski.

Thanks...I agree that those who visit EpicSki might take this more seriously...You do know that Vail Resorts purchased EpicSki.com a few year ago, so it will be interesting to see what they tolerate.

Please Check out, support and spread

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006091757775

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g855fDt9dQ

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by thewon

paging bushwackerinpa......

Josh was one of the reasons I started this campaign...I see he is banned on EpicSki.com

**Skistack** · 12-01-2014, 01:13 PM

OP, welcome to Micro Economics 101. Your lesson for today:

https://www.khanacademy.org/economic...nd-equilibrium

Pay attention, there will be a quiz!!!

**FairWages** · 12-01-2014, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Skistack

OP, welcome to Micro Economics 101. Your lesson for today:

https://www.khanacademy.org/economic...nd-equilibrium

Pay attention, there will be a quiz!!!

Exactly- In the Vail Valley, there is only 1 purchaser I am allowed to sell my services to as a Ski Instructor, therefore, I get a very low price. OTOH, Vail Resorts has plenty of demand for the lessons I teach, so they are able to charge a very high price. >>>If there were multiple ski schools in the Vail Valley, then the gap between what the Instructor makes and what the skier pays for lessons would narrow.

**skideeppow** · 12-01-2014, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by FairWages

I actually think is is good thinking. In Japan, Italy and other places, multiple ski schools and independent Instructors are legally allowed to teach and compete in a free market. The U.S. Forest Service Special Use Permit that allows Vail to conduct their Ski School business on land that is owned by every citizen is NON-EXCLUSIVE and allows the Forest Service issue additional permits. In theory, the US Forest service could issue permits to competing ski schools (like they do with River Rafting companies), but the reality is that they follow a 100 year old "Regulated Monopoly" policy (promoted by a guy who suffered from bi polar disorder).

Currently, if you try to "teach on the side" and get caught, you are banned from all Vail Resort properties for life.

Personally, I don't think Vail Resorts needs the government protection it is receiving. Part of the reason for this thread is to get some public support to encourage the Forest Service to consider ski school competition in the future.

This will never happen. It has be tried and tried again with no luck. Dont get caught teaching on the side. They'll toss you off the mountain for good.

**adrenalated** · 12-01-2014, 01:32 PM

More providers is very likely to decrease the cost of lessons, but unlikely to increase instructor's pay IMO. The resorts (all of them, not just Vail) can pay instructors so little because there is an abundance of people willing to do that job for that salary. Don't like it? Take a hike, they'll find someone to replace you.

The supply of workers outpaces the demand for those workers. So prices are low. While I don't disagree that instructors are underpaid and the monopoly the resorts are allowed to have is unhealthy, until there are less people willing to do the job for such low wages, wages are not going to change no matter how many policy changes you're able to enact.