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  1. #26
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    Nov 2009
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    The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply. I don't know which DWR is best, but if you don't prepare the garment by cleaning sufficiently, the product you use won't matter very much. I didn't really know this until a year or so ago, and I don't think it's widely known. Anyway...

    https://gearpatrol.com/2019/04/04/ho...f-your-jacket/
    sproing!

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  2. #27
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply.
    Had a discussion with a big brand outerwear gear designer and amongst all the other awesome geeky tech knowledge he imparted was the fact that dawn ultra free and gentle dish soap (they stuff used to wash birds free of oil after tanker spills in the ocean) is the absolute best at washing outterwear with. No additives that even the most benign of regular laundry detergents have that can cling to fabrics. Hot side of warm for water wash temp and multi rinse the hell out of it.
    Master of mediocrity.

  3. #28
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply. I don't know which DWR is best, but if you don't prepare the garment by cleaning sufficiently, the product you use won't matter very much. I didn't really know this until a year or so ago, and I don't think it's widely known. Anyway...

    https://gearpatrol.com/2019/04/04/ho...f-your-jacket/
    I just use powdered detergent then I put it thru a second time in JUST water to wash out the detergent
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    804
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Bumping an old thread.

    Where are we these days with DWR? Anything new under the sun?

    also

    Wondering if there's a product that's super durable and not necessarily breathable...my thinking is this: the areas of my jacket that always seem to lose DWR really fast, like after a week of coastal storm weather ski touring, don't need breathability, just DWRness. The tops of the shoulders, upper back, neck and elbows, cuffs of arms. There's no breathing of fabric happening with a soggy pack on back at the contact points, but sure would be great if the face fabric of jacket doesn't turn into a soggy sponge in those locations.

    Thoughts/opinions?
    Orage's JP auclair jacket used to have rubberized material on the shoulders and upper back where your pack rubs away the DWR and you dont need the jacket to breath. I would love to see that application used more.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Orage's JP auclair jacket used to have rubberized material on the shoulders and upper back where your pack rubs away the DWR and you dont need the jacket to breath. I would love to see that application used more.
    Exactly!

    And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.
    Master of mediocrity.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by zeroforhire View Post
    In my experience, Patagonia uses long lasting dwr.
    You've said this twice now (so I do believe it is your belief).

    I've had tons of Patagonia dwr'd stuff. And while it is definitely good, my experience is that Arcteryx dwr lasts far longer (for whatever reason). I generally can't stomach arcteryx pricing, so only get their stuff when I can find a killer deal (including new Sabre pants for this coming season, woohoo!). But their dwr's durability seems unparalleled, IME (get what you pay for I suppose, but come fkn on, arcteryx and stio...retail pricing is flat-out obnoxious!).

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    4,844
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Exactly!

    And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.
    Same with pants. 100% Waterproof thighs and ass is all I need if I have good venting.


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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    12,900
    Yeah, DIY DWR will not stick to anything more than a few days on other than a very clean garment. And yeah, Dawn dish soap -- not too much followed by 3 cold rinses -- works as well or better than expensive tech wash.

    303 Fabric Guard lightly sprayed on clean dry garment, followed by air dry then toss in dryer on medium low, remains my DIY DWR treatment. I haven't found anything better.

    Backpack shoulder straps, chair lifts and brushy approaches quickly abrade DWR. AFAIK, there's no way to avoid that.

    Using urethane-coated fabric on shoulders and cape was pretty common 25-30 years ago, and has limitations, i.e., condensation forms and drips down your back and chest. There is no magic bullet. All shell fabrics have limitations. Notwithstanding Gore's marketing claims, GTX is not waterproof after a season of hard use, but for many applications it's better than alternatives.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Using urethane-coated fabric on shoulders and cape was pretty common 25-30 years ago, and has limitations, i.e., condensation forms and drips down your back and chest. There is no magic bullet. All shell fabrics have limitations. Notwithstanding Gore's marketing claims, GTX is not waterproof after a season of hard use, but for many applications it's better than alternatives.
    An advantage to using a permanent self applied DWR would be that a user could outline the exact contact patch of pack straps and pressure contact area of the upper backpack, thereby reducing the footprint of permanently non breathable material (where the most condensation would occur) and mitigating at least some of the extreme effects of condensation you note above.

    In any case, I presented a hypothesis of a potential structural mitigation of the condensation effect.

    "And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

    I did a bit of internet research and found a material which MAY provide the desirable design features. I'm sure there's more optimum stuff out there but...for the sake of a visual presentation:

    Name:  Untitled.png
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    Suspend your garment fabric above your body with grass stabilizing plastic. Cut to shape of upper body shoulder girdle, heat in a hot box/oven to soften material slightly, and drape over body and step outside into some cool autumn air and let the drape shape take hold.

    Testing will commence once said material is acquired.
    Master of mediocrity.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,959
    Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor
    I really want to see this on the slopes this winter.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vernon BC
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    1,675
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor
    swissiphic has a 1001 uses for milk crates in the B/C
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    I really want to see this on the slopes this winter.
    Dairylanders. It'll be a small step from ski boots to the shoulder girdle.

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    Master of mediocrity.

  14. #39
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    Eburg
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  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,844
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    An advantage to using a permanent self applied DWR would be that a user could outline the exact contact patch of pack straps and pressure contact area of the upper backpack, thereby reducing the footprint of permanently non breathable material (where the most condensation would occur) and mitigating at least some of the extreme effects of condensation you note above.

    In any case, I presented a hypothesis of a potential structural mitigation of the condensation effect.

    "And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

    I did a bit of internet research and found a material which MAY provide the desirable design features. I'm sure there's more optimum stuff out there but...for the sake of a visual presentation:

    Name:  Untitled.png
Views: 166
Size:  96.9 KB

    Suspend your garment fabric above your body with grass stabilizing plastic. Cut to shape of upper body shoulder girdle, heat in a hot box/oven to soften material slightly, and drape over body and step outside into some cool autumn air and let the drape shape take hold.

    Testing will commence once said material is acquired.
    Sounds really comfortable


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,505
    I think I found a better material. Inherently supple. Cheap. And it keeps wet areas clean and safe. #winning.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	296541

    [QUOTE=GeezerSteve;5771171] Name:  A5epaulet.jpg
Views: 131
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    Master of mediocrity.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    the most beautiful place in the whole wide world
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    1,435
    I think you guys are headed towards SteepTech2.0.... remember those shoulder pads?

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4,844
    [QUOTE=swissiphic;5771757]I think I found a better material. Inherently supple. Cheap. And it keeps wet areas clean and safe. #winning.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled.png 
Views:	46 
Size:	656.9 KB 
ID:	296541

    [QUOTE=GeezerSteve;5771171] Name:  A5epaulet.jpg
Views: 131
Size:  65.5 KB Bonus points if it smells of urinal cakes


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  19. #44
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    Sep 2016
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    https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/w...t-3-down-ep-64

    Longwinded but an interesting discussion of cleaning (down) at 36:55 which will have some application here.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/w...t-3-down-ep-64

    Longwinded but an interesting discussion of cleaning (down) at 36:55 which will have some application here.
    Thanks. Interesting listen.


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