Offer - Counteroffer advice

[Grape_Ape]

I just got a job offer last week. It is for significantly more than what I make now. The VP kept calling it a "draft offer letter". Bargaining isn't one of my strengths and I also tend to sell myself short. My gut tells me to provide a counter-offer asking for 10% more and they'll probably meet me in the middle, but I am afraid fucking this up.

Any help much appreciated.

Mo' money = mo' skiing. Plain and simple.

[stfu&gbtw]

Not enough info provided. Basic cost/benefit analysis... Is the 10% counter offer worth the risk of a misjudgement? I saw this go against an aquaintance of mine... Got a good offer, but felt he'd be perceived as not being aggressive enough if he didn't counter. Countered for +10% and they pulled the offer. Don't be that guy.

[54-46]

Deal points:
Salary
bonus/commission/bonus thresholds
Bonus accounting/Timing on payment
Length of deal
Adjustments to deal
Health insurance/125 plan/health savings acct - co-pay, out of pocket, deductible levels? Family members?
401K/matching/eligibility date
Life and disability
Expenses and marketing budget
Tech equipment and allowance
(I'm sure others can chime in with other points)

Lots of things to dick around with and not offend anyone. Pose your counter in the form of questions about the specific deal terms, and you will get information without the prospective new employer feeling threatened or too worked over.

I once did this and ended up with about 20% higher compensation (only 1/4 of the 20% was base salary)

[Benny Profane]

Mo' money = mo' skiing. Plain and simple.

Really? How does that work? "Welcome aboard, Mr. Ape. Now that I've taken you away from another business with a very generous offer, why don't you just go off and enjoy yourself on the slopes for 50-60 weekdays this winter. Just wait for the summer. We have reserved tee times on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the club."

[Grape_Ape]

Really? How does that work? "Welcome aboard, Mr. Ape. Now that I've taken you away from another business with a very generous offer, why don't you just go off and enjoy yourself on the slopes for 50-60 weekdays this winter. Just wait for the summer. We have reserved tee times on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the club."

Yes please. Substitute mountain biking for golf though. Golf sucks.

[Tippster]

Deal points:
Salary
bonus/commission/bonus thresholds
Bonus accounting/Timing on payment
Length of deal
Adjustments to deal
Health insurance/125 plan/health savings acct - co-pay, out of pocket, deductible levels? Family members?
401K/matching/eligibility date
Life and disability
Expenses and marketing budget
Tech equipment and allowance
(I'm sure others can chime in with other points)

Lots of things to dick around with and not offend anyone. Pose your counter in the form of questions about the specific deal terms, and you will get information without the prospective new employer feeling threatened or too worked over.

I once did this and ended up with about 20% higher compensation (only 1/4 of the 20% was base salary)

Only thing I would add is paid/sick leave. Mo money=/=mo skiing if you don't have the time to go.

[Lindahl]

I always find some way to come up with a reason why I should be paid more. Along the lines of 'the job sounds like it has a lot more responsibilities than I originally had anticipated/been told'. A justification for a counter offer gives them less of a reason to take it as an insult and pull the offer. Casts a shade of doubt on whether you're just being greedy.

[butterscotch]

Perhaps this is too obvious to say, but be as confident as possible when asking for more. If you go in all, "well, uh, i kinda...you see..." then you lose. Practice what you're going to say and how you're going to say it. As a twist on what Lindahl said, point out how much value you'll be bringing to the company and how much having you on the team will benefit them. Of course, if you already told them your current salary, then you've got a tough road ahead of you.

[Captain Awesome]

Of course, if you already told them your current salary, then you've got a tough road ahead of you.

This was going to be my question.

How much intel did you give them on what you're making, what you're looking to make, or what it would take to get you to move? I hired a guy recently for a contract that we won, where he'd been working for 6 years. It was going to be a simple re-badging thing, and he was going to keep doing the same job. Based on the rates we bid, I had a number in mind, but I asked him what he wanted. He came back at me with a number that was around 15% lower than I'd anticipated, so I was able to "increase" his pay and still come out way ahead. If I'd gone first, I would have ended up paying him way more than he needed to take the position.

If you've already given them numbers, you need to come up with a reason that you're changing your expectations, like Lindahl said.

[Grape_Ape]

I didn't give them any salary intel.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Practice what you're going to say and how you're going to say it.

Not just that (although it is certainly true)- you have to have an actual basis for your number. Look on Glassdoor or any other number of job websites, get an idea of the range for the position, and go from there. The best, though, is when the job posting has a salary range- you don't even need to give a number, just say "I want your best offer" and don't come off that line. I must have used that phrase a dozen times during my last job negotiation and, as it turned out, I ended up getting about 20% more than my three coworkers who had the exact same experience level.

"Draft offer letter" is such weaselly horseshit though.

[stuckathuntermtn]

They obviously want you, so just ask for more money. Even 20% more. The worst they'll do is say no, and stick with the original offer, but not rescind the job offer. Ask and ye shall receive. Or just be a little bitch and take what they give you, good or bad. Shit, it's already more money.
Congrats, btw, I guess.

[whyturn]

As others have said more favors to consider. Can close gap with more vacation time and stoke or other perks

Do you have to take new job? If yes it is not more than you make because you make zero when out of work

Bottom line is leverage. Get another offer, say I won't leave for at least equal compensation (not pay, key word) unless you have no choice

If it is a better environment you can put a value on that

Compensation is always negotiable, salary may not be but usually is also

[Grape_Ape]

They obviously want you, so just ask for more money. Even 20% more. The worst they'll do is say no, and stick with the original offer, but not rescind the job offer. Ask and ye shall receive. Or just be a little bitch and take what they give you, good or bad. Shit, it's already more money.
Congrats, btw, I guess.

This is what I was thinking and thanks for the congrats.

[avacadotoast]

I didn't give them any salary intel.

When asked, I've always padded a little bit.

I uses similar rule negotiating with car dealerships. Negotiate a price - call another dealer and lower that price a bit to see if they beat - repeat until you start getting the 'we can't match that'.

[Timberridge]

Ask for powder days off in lieu of the extra cash.

[Grape_Ape]

Ask for powder days off in lieu of the extra cash.

Hahaha...powder days in Baltimore? I guess we do have SOME, but no vertical greater than 250' around these parts. WV on the other hand...yummy.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Oh man, you have to live in Baltimore for this job? Ask for twice as much.

[Timberridge]

Oh man, you have to live in Baltimore for this job? Ask for twice as much.

...and some crabcakes.

[riser4]

...and some crabcakes.

Meh. Maine crabcakes are better. Maryland has softshells. Love me some softshells in season.

[Sirshredalot]

Hahaha...powder days in Baltimore? I guess we do have SOME, but no vertical greater than 250' around these parts. WV on the other hand...yummy.

You can probably link turns in Patapsco under just the right conditions.

If you're happy with the money, it doesn't hurt to negotiate along one of the other dimensions discussed above. Health coverage/401(k) match/vacation days all mean a lot.

[DJSapp]

from a personnel review standpoint, it's probably better to negotiate an increase in the other benefits, as when raises come around if you're well ahead of your peers, you're more likely to get a smaller annual raise, or more likely to get the ax if layoffs roll around.

i.e. avoid someone looking at the list of what people are getting paid an hearing "he's getting HOW MUCH more than his peers???"

[stuckathuntermtn]

That's a good point, but then again, it's not 2009.
My impression is that they tend to offer 1 health plan, or one per position and it can't be changed just for 1 employee, hence the term Group Plan. I guess you could ask for 0 kick in on your part.

[Bobby Stainless]

[systemoverblow'd]

That's a good point, but then again, it's not 2009.
My impression is that they tend to offer 1 health plan, or one per position and it can't be changed just for 1 employee, hence the term Group Plan. I guess you could ask for 0 kick in on your part.

We have 4 different health plans and 2 dental. Your employer doesn't give you any options? Is it just PPO or fuck you?