Carbon versus alloy rims

[pureantigravity]

Seems a lot more people are buying into carbon rims. Even for exorbitant prices.

I'd like to see the difference between a heavy duty layup vs regular.

Thoughts on this?

[abraham]

I'm excited for the equations you'll be posting in this thread

[pureantigravity]

I'm excited for the equations you'll be posting in this thread

These are $1,000 less than similar Envy wheels. Therefore ...

2 NOBLE wheelsets = 3 ENVY wheelsets.


29" Standard Model - Rider weight limit 100kg’s (220 pounds)
29" HD Model - Rider weight limit for all riders 130kg’s (286 pounds)

For an extra 50 grams, the weight limit goes from 220 lbs to 286 pounds.

Can we get back to wasting time talking about carbon rims already?

[grinch]

Buys a set from each company . Reports back. Decides on rhino lights/end thread

[creaky fossil]

PG, we'd like a spreadsheet of all current sub-ENVE carbon rims, each described with subjective brilliance. you've got until Tues Nov 11 9AM EDT.

I heard 3d hand somewhat recently that a certain well-respected MTB racer from the USA thinks alu rims are better because carbon = too rigid. this may have been limited to hardtail XC race bike applications.

[kidwoo]

Buys a set from each company . Reports back. Decides on rhino lights/end thread

It may take a month. It may take a year. But by golly I think you've called it. Betting pool on the statement of 'discovering rhino lights' starts now.....

[pureantigravity]

PG, we'd like a spreadsheet of all current sub-ENVE carbon rims, each described with subjective brilliance. you've got until Tues Nov 11 9AM EDT.

I heard 3d hand somewhat recently that a certain well-respected MTB racer from the USA thinks alu rims are better because carbon = too rigid. this may have been limited to hardtail XC race bike applications.

Can't work this weekend. And Tues is Remembrance Day here in Canada. We all celebrate the poppy.

Come on guys .... I was *hoping* for a *civilized* carbon rims discussion. What good is it if I do all your homework?

Learning means you need to invest in some of your own discoveries.

Flowtron probably has a cheat sheet somewhere. Prob even knows about that Asymetrical rim tech.

[pureantigravity]

And them Sun rims are like going SLX. I'm not surprised anymore. What do you guys *spend* on? No. I don't want to know.

[LeeLau]

While I don't have technical data I've ridden my share of carbon and alloy rims. In the xc applications at my 160lbs 75kg weight I don't notice the difference but then again I ride Crests on a 29er vs Enves and each time I've given back the Enves and not reviewed with them. In the more aggressive riding applications I do notice a difference but, to me, the difference was minimal so as to not justify the cost. Ie the stiffness gain did not outweigh the cost.

The chinese carbon rims otoh are so inexpensive that it might sway me to try some. But I'm too lazy to build some up

[jm2e]

To me it all comes down to durability. I'd be interested in a carbon rim that's more durable than aluminum. With 160mm of travel, I'm not thinking I'm going to feel the subtle difference of carbon wheels like I would with a carbon handlebar. I'm not interested in something that's uber light. Same weight as a Stans Flow or maybe slightly lighter is all I'd want. And the price would have to be good. Stan's rims are cheap enough to stick with them until I start breaking them. Prebuilt Sun Ringle wheelsets are cheap enough to keep buying them until they start exploding.

[kidwoo]

If you can tell where you cornered by looking at the dirt after riding a trail, it's almost impossible not to notice the stiffness difference with good carbon rims and a real wheel build. And yes they're way more chattery. That's can be somewhat remedied by messing with your suspension in most cases (purecanwilf: that means you probably don't want them on a hardtail, I wouldn't). But there's definitely more feedback. That's also the good part because that carries over to pumping and cornering.

Carbon rimmed wheels still flex, they just do it differently, as in not so much with the rim. They don't bend at the contact region at the rim, they more just kind of move with the spoke flex and stay mostly round, just off center. I can feel it on 26s so I imagine the difference on some 29s with real spokes would be just as noticeable if not much much more. I own some enves (bought used) and have ridden some derbys. That's what I'm basing that on. I have no idea about all the other layups.

But the ones I've ridden are definitely less 'damp' than aluminum rims of all makes.

Light is good, especially at the rims. Bikes accelerate and slow down quicker with less spinnymass™.

[pureantigravity]

spinnymass™ eh

[kidwoo]

An entirely quantifiable entity.

[grinch]

haven't tried any but I've heard less deflection when power to the pedal giving you quicker acceleration. also reports of people running narrower rear rim so tire sidewall isn't as stiff to give better tracking less chatter. thinking I might try some for xc ing

[kidwoo]

haven't tried any but I've heard less deflection when power to the pedal giving you quicker acceleration. also reports of people running narrower rear rim so tire sidewall isn't as stiff to give better tracking less chatter. thinking I might try some for xc ing

I'm guessing you mean 'wind up'. That's spokes, not rims. Deflection is usually a lack of compliant tracking......which carbon wheels tend to do more. They're so damn light they definitely accelerate easier. I think that's where people are noticing anything about more efficient power delivery.

[grinch]

yes that. how light are they?

[pureantigravity]

~300 grams per rim depending on brand.


Don't think Sun Ringle even makes a 30mm ID rim in 29er size.

[pureantigravity]

... the difference was minimal so as to not justify the cost. Ie the stiffness gain did not outweigh the cost.

The chinese carbon rims otoh are so inexpensive that it might sway me to try some. But I'm too lazy to build some up

Sensible ratio. Money better spent on other just desserts. Like Siccc brakes or an entire 2nd bike.

[kidwoo]

I just looked up the ones I have (enve AM 26s) and they call them 404g a pop. What I replaced were 540 a pop. So that's about 270g of rotating weight. That's noticeable but also not outside the realm of tire choice weights. Changing nothing else, same bike, same kind of spokes, same tires yeah, over half a pound of rotational weight is noticeable. Honestly though, I think what most people are experiencing is that the trail feels rougher so they feel like they're going faster. Reduced weight helps acceleration but that can come from other places. The big reason IMO opinion for these things is just a weight/stiffness relationship.

No one is winding up a RIM, aluminum or otherwise. I guess you could make a case for a subtle rolling 'flat spot' in pinner aluminum rims while pedaling but I think that probably only happens with the 500lb + club

[pureantigravity]

On a 29er wide rim that's 1 lb at the outer perimeter of the wheel. On slow uphill Xc climb, that's a re-acceleration of that pound on each wheel with every pedal stroke. Kinda like how tech bindings save lifting the binding with each step.

[grinch]

yes it'd be minimal. has to be some benefit w limiting a small amount of flex. cranks do. I'm running 26" 823's so I stand to lose quite a bit with them as my light 27.5 setup. didn't think I'd lose that much

[kidwoo]

yes it'd be minimal. has to be some benefit w limiting a small amount of flex. cranks do. I'm running 26" 823's so I stand to lose quite a bit with them as my light 27.5 setup. didn't think I'd lose that much

Dude those are like the heaviest rims ever made. Yeah you have LOTS of room for improvement in terms of rotating weight if it's on a bike you climb on. I've had lots of wheels with those rims and they were all on 7"+ shuttle bikes. Those are literally dh rims. You don't need teh carbonz to improve that aspect.

[grinch]

haaa ya I know but no worry tubeless,strength and good width. wish they made lighter tubeless 23 inner maxtal rim but they don't. too much to like aside from the weight. most rims dent too ez . flow ex were fairly strong but small lip/sidewall and tubeless can create problems. just finally said fuck it. they're 23 and no hassle

[LeeLau]

holy shit grinch - what woo said. You can improve a lot from those rims. For me, Crests are already so light that the carbons don't make that much of a difference.

[grinch]

yes next yr for sure. probably over the winter. one the weight of canwilfs and one woo's and bam. 1 1/2 lbs gone. i'll run both sets. I like solid wheels. right now the rune takes a lot of abuse without a peep. lighter bigger wheel option would be a plus. probably addictive once I get them on. i'll wait for canwilfs fact finding mission