Carbon versus alloy rims

[hardboiled]

a few years ago when Enves were just starting to get traction, I read lots of comments about how the rims might cost 10x what an AL rim cost, but they would last forever, they'd be the last wheelset you'd ever buy, Enves were unbreakable! fast forward a few years and I think carbon rims are as consumable as AL rims, in a slightly different way. if you ride fast enough on rocky trails to smash/dent/destroy AL rims, you will break carbon rims too, it's just a matter of time. for me, the Light Bicycle rims are cheap enough and have lasted (just) long enough for me to replace a broken rear with a new one, but I strongly considered going back to AL. (mine survived and was rideable with a big crack and continued to hold air tubeless for a few weeks while my replacement was on the way, FWIW.) I don't think it's limited to LB rims either... plenty of pics and anecdotal evidence of Enve and other carbon rims suffering the same fate. but I'm sure they'll keep getting better, it is still the early days.

[Lev]

good. bound to be the odd rock crawl out of nowhere to smash into in moab or Sedona I'd imagine. I was thinking of trying butcher/slaughter combo as well. went on lb site after that post. great price for wheelsets with hope hubs. didn't see standard or hd layup option.

Who here is rocking the Hope hub build of the Light Bicycle wheels? Curious what to expect as far as performance. Been riding CKs for a while. I'm liking the $850 price tag for the complete Hope build...

[jamesp]

Hope hubs are awesome, certainly not no-name POS.

[beaterdit]

The new 40 tooth rivals King's engagement angle too (9 degrees vs. 5 degrees), just got one, HUDGE difference from my old 20 tooth Pro2 and Pro2 EVOs. Make sure you get that one. This is my third set of Hope hubs, they're bomb proof, reliable, light, and virtually maintenance free. Not what I've observed with the Kings, although I think they're more sorted these days.

As for carbon rims, I've broken a few but I'm still sold on the ride. My friends have had good results with the newer gen LBs. I may give them a try myself one of these days.

[alewi11]

Who here is rocking the Hope hub build of the Light Bicycle wheels? Curious what to expect as far as performance. Been riding CKs for a while. I'm liking the $850 price tag for the complete Hope build...

I've got LBs on Hope hubs. I actually cracked my rear rim. LB was easy to work with on the warranty. I just had to pay shipping for the replacement rim. I will say the crack was partly my fault. I had a Fox CTD shock at the time and I forgot to take it out of climb mode before descending.

As far as performance goes, I think they're hard to beat for the price. I also have Enve M70s and Roval Control carbons. The Enves are definitely stiffer than the LBs, but the LBs feel stiffer than the Rovals. I'm not 100% sure, but I think they're lighter than the Enves.

[Lev]

Word. Thanks for the quick replies. Upgradeitis is right around the corner

[jm2e]

Good stuff in here. The anecdotes re cracked/broken rims that don't have catastrophic failure are very helpful. Surprised to see that LB was so awesome on the warranty side of things. That's promising.

alewl11, I don't think leaving your CTD in climb mode for a descent is even remotely a valid reason for why rim damage could be considered your fault. If you can stay on a bike, riding downhill on rocks, your wheelset should support you. If you'd been on a hard tail that day, would you blame yourself for damaged wheels?

[jm2e]

For the guys reporting a chattery-er and a carvy-er ride on their carbon rims, are you comparing Apples to Apples or are you going from a narrow to a wide rim when you make the leap from aluminum to carbon?

I rode with a guy who was on an uber wide Syntase aluminum wheelset this summer. Similar reports. The guy was running mid teen psi on crazy rocky trails with tubes and no pinch flats too. Crazy.

[Roxtar]

For the guys reporting a chattery-er and a carvy-er ride on their carbon rims, are you comparing Apples to Apples or are you going from a narrow to a wide rim when you make the leap from aluminum to carbon?

I rode with a guy who was on an uber wide Syntase aluminum wheelset this summer. Similar reports. The guy was running mid teen psi on crazy rocky trails with tubes and no pinch flats too. Crazy.

Very good point. A wide rim will result in a straighter sidewall. That will definitely stiffen up the ride quality.

[grinch]

Absolutely zero complaints with hope hubs. Roll fast and really well sealed . Bearing life has been longer than anything else I've had. I'd like to get complete wheelset from lb with the hopes but I'd like to run a 24mm inner hd on the rear and a wider rim on the front in non hd. Maybe I should email them?

[alewi11]

jm2e, I would agree being in climb mode on the descent shouldn't result in a cracked rim. However, I was flying down a very chunky bit of trail. If I was on a hardtail I certainly wouldn't have approached it at the speed I did.

[beaterdit]

For the guys reporting a chattery-er and a carvy-er ride on their carbon rims, are you comparing Apples to Apples or are you going from a narrow to a wide rim when you make the leap from aluminum to carbon?

I rode with a guy who was on an uber wide Syntase aluminum wheelset this summer. Similar reports. The guy was running mid teen psi on crazy rocky trails with tubes and no pinch flats too. Crazy.

I'm on the widest rims out there, the Derbys, I don't notice chatter so much as just more responsiveness. They definitely hook up REALLY well with the tire profile. When I go back to my Flow EXs, it seems like with the lateral flex, the wheel loads up laterally and then recoils, causing it to spring sideways on the trail or off of rocks, etc. There does seem to be more feedback vertically though. As far as tire pressure, you can definitely go lower with a wider rim but that's also at the risk of destroying your nice wheels, I learned the hard (expensive) way. Aluminum dent, Carbon, while maybe taking a bigger hit to do so, cracks. I was running 20/22, I've since upped my pressure. You're still getting better traction with a wider rim without running crazy low pressures.

Also, in terms of broken carbon keeping going, all my broken rims got me out. The last one happened on the bottom of Burro pass. I popped the bead right where it was broken and slapped some duct tape in there to seal it, and rode it out tubeless for rest of the Enchilada run (Hazzard, UPS, LPS, Porc).

[pureantigravity]

Just to throw in my experience ... after sporting 30mm wide ID rims, I don't see them as 'wide' anymore. If I were to buy again, the Ibis 37 ID ones would be my preferred choice. The wide rims with tubeless at low psi has been great. I've gone as low as 15 psi on wet days and had no problems. Unfortunately, some bikes just won't fit a wide rim combined with a high volume tire.

[jamesp]

like to get complete wheelset from lb with the hopes but I'd like to run a 24mm inner hd on the rear and a wider rim on the front in non hd. Maybe I should email them?

you pretty much have to do it all via email with them anyway.

[hick]

This thread is making me think I should just get a wide alu rim instead of pissing away all my clams on carbon rims (but I must admit that I love how a wide carbon rim rides).

[Roxtar]

Just to throw in my experience ... after sporting 30mm wide ID rims, I don't see them as 'wide' anymore. If I were to buy again, the Ibis 37 ID ones would be my preferred choice. The wide rims with tubeless at low psi has been great. I've gone as low as 15 psi on wet days and had no problems. Unfortunately, some bikes just won't fit a wide rim combined with a high volume tire.

I heard that the Ibis wheels use Derby rims.

[Roxtar]

Attachment 160340
Just figured this would be a good place for a little carbon rim porn.
Built them up last night with the the replacement L-B rim

[grinch]

you pretty much have to do it all via email with them anyway.

perfect. sounds like its definitely a possibility

Attachment 160340
Just figured this would be a good place for a little carbon rim porn.
Built them up last night with the the replacement L-B rim

props for taking the time to take a pic. I would have been too impatient. bikes going to look sick

[iscariot]

This thread is making me think I should just get a wide alu rim instead of pissing away all my clams on carbon rims ...

Yup. Bring on the Double Tracks!

[frorider]

Have posted before about the light bicycle 27.5 rims I got late summer 2013. Around 4,000 miles on them, no issues. The main difference vs typical ALU rim is the steering precision. I notice the reduced compliance....not sure I'd want them on a hard tail.

[kidwoo]

For the guys reporting a chattery-er and a carvy-er ride on their carbon rims, are you comparing Apples to Apples or are you going from a narrow to a wide rim when you make the leap from aluminum to carbon?

I rode with a guy who was on an uber wide Syntase aluminum wheelset this summer. Similar reports. The guy was running mid teen psi on crazy rocky trails with tubes and no pinch flats too. Crazy.

Same/really similar widths.

It's the material.

[panchosdad]

So if I'm an old broken guy and don't like the idea of chattery, but would like light and responsive, which way would I go?

[pureantigravity]

The whole chattery thing is bullshit. If you run a big tire on wide carbon rim it is going to be nicer than you imagine.

[kidwoo]

The whole chattery thing is bullshit.

So is your perception of what happens at speed. Why do you think enve's newer layups stress increased vertical compliance?

Of course you knew that didn't you?

[grinch]

wide rim creating a straight sidewall on your tire takes away some compliance and ads a degree of precision. I'm looking at 24mm inner rear rim/30ish mm inner front rim for this reason. at this point anyway....