How do I buy a car?

[MontuckyFried]

If you're not willing to play the game, you're not going to get the best deal out there. Plain and simple.

If you just want an easy, no-hassle, no-haggle purchase, then be prepared to waste thousands over what you could've gotten the car for (and sold your car for) had you been willing to put in some work.

If you go into a dealership armed with information, knowing what car you want, how much the true dealer invoice is (different than the "invoice" price they always tell you about), how much your car is worth per NADA/KBB/Real world prices, and not being in a hurry, you can make it out of there relatively pain-free. I feel I did fairly well on my last purchase. Had a great senior, nearly-retired salesman who didn't BS us whatsoever, didn't charge us for any stupid processing/document/title fees, didn't bother "talking to the manager" even once (I guess working at a single dealer for like 40 years has its privileges), and gave us an even trade where we left without paying a single penny. Sure, I could've found a better deal on the car somewhere out there, or maybe got more money for my trade, but at least the process was pretty satisfying overall. They're rare, but hopefully you can find a straight shooting salesman who will be fair to you.

[uglymoney]

^Why waste all day at a dealership though when you can maintain a position of power by staying away and making them lure you in with a good price? You generally are treated to a different sales person with completely different tactics by staying away from the dealer.

Not saying not to go in if that is your deal or you know of someone that is going to shoot straight with you but I personally dislike working with salespeople and they generally dislike me because I give them nothing to work/come across as an asshole sometimes especially when they try to play all the games. Why bother?

[PNWbrit]

This is what I would do, and I have a car I've been trying to sell for over a month now; so I think i'm as close as you're going to get on an expert..

Huh.....?

[MontuckyFried]

^Why waste all day at a dealership though when you can maintain a position of power by staying away and making them lure you in with a good price? You generally are treated to a different sales person with completely different tactics by staying away from the dealer.

Not saying not to go in if that is your deal or you know of someone that is going to shoot straight with you but I personally dislike working with salespeople and they generally dislike me because I give them nothing to work/come across as an asshole sometimes especially when they try to play all the games. Why bother?

True, true. I guess another time to deal remotely is if the product is practically non-negotiable anyhow. When I was checking out Subarus, at least in Bozeman where they must be some sort of status symbol, the salesmen (two different ones on separate occasions) made it fairly clear that they don't budge much on the prices. In cases like that, there is absolutely zero reason to bother with the typical dealer nonsense.

[markb]

Do everything through dealer's internet sales rep. Get quotes, send them around, let them bid the price down. Save yourself time and pressure sales stress. When you go in to close the deal, they want you in and out as fast as possible. I've done this twice with huge success. Same dealership can go thousands$ lower through their internet sales rep rather than their lot staff. Literally showed a quote and the lot guy said he can't come close to matching it. Or else the margin is so low it's not worth his time.

And then all that other stuff in terms of timing for the kind of incentive best for you (low interest rate vs. rebate), inventory that matches what you want, etc.

[Yanos]

^Agreed. I emailed dealers between a few states with what I was looking for. Got about 8 hits on the model/options that fit the bill. Sent replies to the top three letting them know what their competitor was offering, starting a micro bidding process. It was a fairly stress free approach. Be careful which phone number you list, because you will get calls.

[riser4]

There's a car dealership I won't go back to because of how abusive they were over the financing. Verbally abusive. And made us jump through extra hoops when I stuck to my guns.

[Bobby Stainless]

This is what I would do, and I have a car I've been trying to sell for over a month now; so I think i'm as close as you're going to get on an expert.

I would list your car for $500 to $1000 above trade in

lol

[assman]

Buy and sell privately.

[MontuckyFried]

One thing I don't have any experience with is ordering a car that they won't have on the lot. For example, is there ANY way to get a good/better price from a dealer on say, a new STI or Golf R?

[spanky]

Call the 4 or so local dealerships that sell the car you want.

"I am buying xxx car today. What is the best deal you can give me?"

Go to the one with the lowest price, and sign the paperwork.

Very similar to the fightingchance.com approach which I had great success with last year. If you're interested but don't want to pay, PM me an email address and I'll forward you the docs I got last year. The approach is straightforward, you just won't have the stats and pricing data for the cars you're interested in.

Edit: Separate the shopping experience from the buying experience. Shop around, test drive, then decide on a car. Once decided, then do the phone/email approach.

[Mazderati]

One thing I don't have any experience with is ordering a car that they won't have on the lot. For example, is there ANY way to get a good/better price from a dealer on say, a new STI or Golf R?

Should be able to order a Subaru; not sure about VW. It would make sense for an ordered car to be priced less holdback and associated advertising but you'll probably still have a fight on your hands.

[The AD]

I've used CarBargains a couple times and it has worked well. Each time I've gotten my car at or below invoice. The way it works is you specify what car you want and they do the leg work. After a week or two they send you back quotes from several dealers and then you just contact the dealer and go select your car for the price they quoted.

The obvious downside is you're paying for this service. It's something you could do on your own. It's just a question of whether you're willing to pay some money to avoid dicking around with the dealers directly.

And definitely avoid trading in your old car. If you get a good quote trading in your car will be the one final way the salesman can screw you.

[telebear]

I found this site and this site invaluable back when we had a Suby in the mid-aughts.

0% financing for 36 months on a '14 Outback sounds like a pretty solid offer right now.

Echoing others, my strategy with the last couple cars I've bought has been to check out the websites of 5-6 dealers within a decent range of where we live, see what they had in inventory and then email the websales manager for their best offer... all negotiating via email. Told them I had less than two hours to pick up the car.

It still ends up taking ~4 hours dealing with all their BS offers and checking-in with the finance manager.

Have a realistic, hard # in mind you want on your trade-in (based on KBB or CarMax or something). If the dealer is close enough to mitigate the hassle factor of selling elsewhere, hit the bid.

Do some research about buying the extended service and warranty online, if you're into that. You don't have to buy it at the dealer and there are often better deals to be found online... search a suby or make specific forum.

Final bit of advice.... GO ALONE! They are great at planting seeds of doubt--particularly around selling safety and service add-ons--I kept shooting my wife death-stares when she was like "Why don't we want the rustproofing or the extended warranty?"

[PNWbrit]

The guy who runs cars101 is a Seattle Subaru eSalesman.

We've bought two cars from him.

Very,very easy - "what model, what color, what specs, no hassle, this is my one price" type deals.

When we took his price to other Suby dealers they wouldn't get near it.

Nice guy, if a little "unusual". Apparently he is somewhat of a local celebrity bibliophile.

[PaSucks]

out the door. I could search, but typing this is easier.

I'm getting rid of my '07 Outback with 99K miles. It leaks oil. The power steering pump feels like it's about to shit. It's due for a timing belt. Timing belt alone will set me back at least a grand, so I'd rather say goodbye now.

Timing belt for my '07 WRX was about 320 bucks, which also included an alternator belt. 1000 sounds too high, unless you're talking water pump as well. Or maybe that's about right if you've got a 6 cyl, I don't know.

[nickwm21]

I'll add - don't use TrueCar. All they do is give your contact information to all the local dealers....

[neufox47]

I used TrueCar quotes as my guide, then went in and negotiated. Found that the dealers would go about $500 under the TrueCar quote.

[MakersTeleMark]

pm Danno. He sources cars for a living.

[Danno]

what is it that you do for a living again? I mean besides dumpster diving?

[stuckathuntermtn]

If you really dislike the process that much then just resign yourself to the fact that it's going to cost you a little more to get this car deal done and then get it over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. In the end we're taking about a grand or two at most right? Amortized out over the life of the car that's probably only pennies a day. Just trade the thing in and buy a new one. You don't have to get bent over but neither do you have to go all Glengarry Glen Ross on their asses.

Actually it's about $20/mo per grand. Could be more.

[Bobby Stainless]

1. Avoid CarMax at all cost for both buying and selling..

Pfff. Carmax is the perfect place to unload crap cars.

I sold them a BMW X5 that needed the engine rebuilt and had hail damage. Took it to them on a really rainy day, and got KBB private party "good" value.

[donkeykong]

Do everything through dealer's internet sales rep. Get quotes, send them around, let them bid the price down. Save yourself time and pressure sales stress. When you go in to close the deal, they want you in and out as fast as possible. I've done this twice with huge success. Same dealership can go thousands$ lower through their internet sales rep rather than their lot staff. Literally showed a quote and the lot guy said he can't come close to matching it. Or else the margin is so low it's not worth his time.

And then all that other stuff in terms of timing for the kind of incentive best for you (low interest rate vs. rebate), inventory that matches what you want, etc.

^ This is your best advice. Refuse to speak to anyone except the Internet sales manager, or sometimes called the Fleet Sales manager. The Fleet guys make their profit on volume, not margins. Call him up and ask him to email you a quote. Do this at every dealership. Don't let him refer you to a traditional salesman. All further negotiations should be done through email. Agree to a price, refuse dealer adds and pit them against each other. Don't set foot inside until you ALREADY KNOW the price you will pay out the door. Unless of course you need to test drive, but in that case, you're not buying the same day.

When I was buying my car, one dealer wanted an extra $1700 for dealer add-ons such as window etching and tinted windows (AZ). I LOL'd and said I wasn't interested in any of that, please don't tint the windows. Of course they said too late it's already been done (duh), but next day he called back and dropped the price to match the other dealer's $300. Still didn't buy there since they tried to pull that crap, but it works. Got them to throw in free oil changes for the duration of warranty period too, which can add up.

Some other pointers:

1) In my experience, buying Subies you have very little negotiating power. Bottom line is, they will usually hold out for a customer willing to pay more, and there tend to be lots of them, depending on your demographic. For this reason, if you have an employer discount that gets you 1% below invoice or whatever, use it. You are unlikely to do better than that. For used cars, this may not apply.

2) Do not trade in to the dealer, don't go to Carmax, sell your current ride privately. Dealers offered anywhere from $3-4.5k (LOL), Carmax offered $5k, I sold privately for $7.5k. Trading is another way for the dealer to fuck you over. They may give you an incredible deal on your new car, then sandbag your trade. Or vice versa, give you KBB on the trade, but MSRP for new. It just eliminates another angle they can play. Don't play their game, they are much better at it than you, they do it every day...Craigslist is usually fine. It sucks only a little bit more. Be explicit in your ad about everything, with detailed pictures. The quality of buyer you attract will change with the quality of your ad. Many buyers are interested in private sale for lack of sales tax. [Side note, I can't stand that the sale of the same vehicle can be taxed multiple times] You will get lots of inquiries, many of them from dumbasses with bad spelling or didn't read the whole post which contains the answer to their question. You can patiently ignore these while waiting for a legit buyer. Should be easy to tell through email, texting, simple punctuation and what not. Meet in a public location, or the mechanic of his choice, and figure it out. You will do significantly better than CarMax, you can even mention to them Carmax is offering me X amount already, I can't sell it to you for that, etc. The extra margin you make with a private sale should make up for the tax break you would have gotten for trading in to the dealer. If not, then go to the dealer to get the tax break, and the hassle free transaction. But I doubt it.

3) For your private sale, make sure you print out two copies of bill of sale and have the buyer sign both, keep one, when you hand the keys over. And whatever else is required by your state. Cancel your insurance immediately, if the buyer is lazy in adding insurance, you don't want to be on the hook for a claim after it's in their possession. Look at DMV website for specific info. And have a plan for your license plates.

4) Shop at end of month, better yet end of quarter or end of year. You will find more hungry salesmen. At this point I would wait until after Christmas for clearing stock deals, if you can stomach a more limited inventory to choose from. I made my purchase at 9pm on March 31st, the dealer I bought from I first contacted at 7pm (fleet sales) same day. I actually was driving on the highway waiting for two dealers to get back to me with final numbers, I didn't know which one I would end up at when I started driving. I made sure they knew this fact.

5) Even though you should have it all nailed down by the time you actually step foot in the dealership, be willing to walk away. If the final number does not match what's in your email, there's your sanity check. There are other vehicles out there, and other buyers for yours. That said, having a plan for being car-less for a couple weeks if your sale and purchase don't overlap perfectly, is a good idea.

Good luck!! It doesn't have to suck, and you don't have to pay full price for it not to suck.

[GeoMatt]

I'm sure I'm just repeating, but to lazy to read all fo the responses....

1. Buy with cash.

2. Know your price, skip the salesman and go directly to the sales manager, if I'm talking to someone who has to run the offer by someone else, I'm talking to the wrong person. Decision makers talk to decision makers, not some middle man who needs permission from dad to do a deal. I usually go in the door with one fair number based on dealer invoice research, reasonable dealer profit, and local market considerations for the vehicle model. If I can't get it I walk. Avoid negotiating.

3. If you have to negotiate, understand how the dealer is floating money between different "term sheets" he offers up. I've see some interesting reduction in sales tax rates show up on term sheets offered up within 10 minutes. Don't let them play funny math. Negotiate the vehicle price not the "out the door price"; avoid add-ons unless only available at the dealership.

4. Sell your vehicle privately. It's a pain, but you will usually get more for it; sometimes alot more.

5. And if buying used, learn how to spot reapired body work, and other red flag issues, regardless of what any Carfax report or similar states. They can be wrong.

[jfost]

...
3. If you have to negotiate, understand how the dealer is floating money between different "term sheets" he offers up. I've see some interesting reduction in sales tax rates show up on term sheets offered up within 10 minutes. Don't let them play funny math. Negotiate the vehicle price not the "out the door price"; avoid add-ons unless only available at the dealership...

I think you can do fine by just doing the math ahead of time. Know what your price per month would be, know what your overall out-the-door price is etc. That way you can play the monthly payment game because you know the numbers. Caveat - know the terms too, $300/month for 36 months is a lot different than 72 months!

I've done deals just fine when they say "what do you want your monthly payment to be?" and I just say I want $xxx at 48 months or whatever, including the trade in... they will then tell you that you're crazy and they can t do it etc. but stick to your guns! Once they realize they aren't going to fuck you, they will either decide to move the car or save it for the next sucker.