Guardian vs Duke

[ahlerscurtis]

I can't decide which one to go with. Will be on a 120mm waist ski.

[skimaxpower]

Various advantages and disadvantages, but they mostly do the same thing. Buy the one on sale. (Or get some used Dukes - they've been around for years so you can find used ones for less than $200.)

[GoldenBC]

guardians ski better. Dukes have a flat touring mode. Guardians ice up a little bit. Dukes ice up a bunch. Guardians wiggle apart. Dukes snap.

I would get Guardians for the fact that they ski better. I would attribute that to a better ramp angle and lower.

[adrenalated]

guardians ski better. Dukes have a flat touring mode. Guardians ice up a little bit. Dukes ice up a bunch. Guardians wiggle apart. Dukes snap.

That's pretty much the summary of it. Only thing I'd add is all Dukes are compatible with all boots, AT or alpine. All past season Guardians were compatible only with alpine boots or Salomon WTR boots. The new Guardian is compatible with everything, just like the Duke.

[çayzi]

I am in the same position. First time owning 106mm waist skis (still waiting for praxis to send me bc 180cm).

I was asking Keith about it and he said standing point for those is to hight. He recommends dyafit (i was towards beast 14 or 16).

But since ski will be also used on groomers to ski with my kids i am confused what to take actually since tech bind do not have same amount of elasticy.

First time buying tech bindigns as well so i do not have any clue how they ski and what is the feeling on them.

Thanks for tips!

[gregL]

But since ski will be also used on groomers to ski with my kids i am confused what to take actually since tech bind do not have same amount of elasticy.

Don't confuse the Beast 16 with more traditional tech bindings - it should have plenty of elasticity and the increased amount of shock the toe transmits won't be a problem unless your kids ski at 45 mph (72 kph) on chattery ice a lot. Burlier skiers than I have used it extensively for both lift skiing and touring last year and been happy with it. The ramp is also quite a bit less than old-school Dynafits like the Radical ST/FT.

[SB]

Been seeing Dfit Beast16 on epay for $750 lately.

[regct]

guardians ski better. Dukes have a flat touring mode. Guardians ice up a little bit. Dukes ice up a bunch. Guardians wiggle apart. Dukes snap.

I would get Guardians for the fact that they ski better. I would attribute that to a better ramp angle and lower.

What do you mean snapped? I've seen broken heel pieces and sloppy toes on dukes but nothing I haven't seen on just about every pair of bindings, alpine include. In fact, I've probably seen more broken FKS 180 heels than I have Dukes.

[Driver]

I've toured both extensively and I think the edge goes to the guardian though the difference is not large. Guardian feels perhaps a bit more stiff and the mechanism can be easier (though icing is more prevalent). I'd go with whatever you get a better deal on. This is another thread altogether (and has been and will be argued forever), but if you are skiing in bounds at all and ski in a reasonably aggressive manner, I wouldn't go w the tech binder. Not because it can't be done, but because this is really what the frame bindings excel at- being solid in bounds with reasonable tour ability. The only time my speed radicals ever see a resort is if I'm using the lift to launch a longer tour. If you are not skiing bumps and hucking in bounds maybe different story but still would be hesitant. In bounds gear is for the resort. Dynafit is for bc. Others will argue the other side but that's my 2 cents.

[Spooky]

I'd go with Tyrolia Adrenalins, better than both I reckon.

They're lighter, ski really well and tour nicely. They don't seem to have the snapping in half problems the Guardians have nor the slop the Dukes get.

[Micol]

Been seeing Dfit Beast16 on epay for $750 lately.

Last spring they were as low as $650 new and even some less than that on fleabay...may not
be helpful now approaching snow season.

[çayzi]

I can't decide which one to go with. Will be on a 120mm waist ski.

did you consider Tyrolia Ambitions or Adrenalin?

[thewon]

do you need a 16 din binder? if not, you may want to consider the marker f12 tour. great stiff (as stiff skiing as the duke, it's been tested) binding and MUCH lighter than the solly and a fair bit lighter than the duke.

[Cocximus]

I'd go with Tyrolia Adrenalins, better than both I reckon.

They're lighter, ski really well and tour nicely. They don't seem to have the snapping in half problems the Guardians have nor the slop the Dukes get.

+1. They are solid. Heck i'd be looking really hard at the ambitions if my skis could take more holes.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Is having to take your skis off to switch really that much of a compromise? I could see that being a problem in some tight areas, but aren't there some tech bindings that you have to click out of for one change on another? Assuming your not racing people, do you guys really not stop to take off your skins and such?
For rolling hills, that's another thing. I'm assuming you'd snap a frame binding off at the toe if you tried to use them for long skates at ski areas.
So what are you giving up?
OTOH, fuck Marker, and can we talk more about the finer details of Guardian v Adrenaline? Doesn't the Tyrolia have a flat touring mode?
Elastic travel, or lack thereof, is what freaks me out about touring bindings. I skied some Griffons and they were kinda scary. Do the Adrenaline toes move anything similar to the LD toes, or whatever they call them now? Seems like they're both ski and tour about the same, so that's a wash.
Most of this is just guesswork. Users with actual time on this stuff: inquiring minds want to know.

[Cocximus]

The adrenalins tour flat. Dunno about the actual numbers for elastic travel, but while I tend to lose marker binding especially in EC bumps, the adrenalins stayed on from Tremblant ice bumps to out out west unexpected drops and bad landings in poor visibility weather. Usually I have to use a knife to clear snow off the rail, but really what binding stays clear in sticky snow?

[stuckathuntermtn]

The Adrenaline looks like a better product that the other 2, lol.

[Cocximus]

One big downside is their mounting. They have weird screws for the heel. It's a clusterfuck to use them with inserts. It requires a lathe and hex studs. In the end I did not pursue an insert setup since the skis I have them on are quite the one ski quiver.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

+1 for tours. Skied on them most days last year and have had no complaints and even fewer breakage issues than previous dukes id owned. They tour flat. Definitely some flex sidehilling so you end up wanting to go straight up the hill when the ski track is ice and all sidehilled out. It that situation those bindings sucked. Everywhere else they were fine. Skied much better and less precariously than id imagined they would, but I'm no Seth Morrison when it comes to speed/terrain choice/aggressiveness.

[çayzi]

Anybody knows what is the difference in Guardian 13 and 16 construction? Different spring only or something else as well?

I found this post:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ht=guardian+13

Also did standing point changed this year on Guardians? I am reading 31mm on 2015 model vs 26mm (on 2014) ?
http://www.salomon.com/others/produc...-mnc-16-s.html

Thanks!

[thewon]

Anybody knows what is the difference in Guardian 13 and 16 construction? Different spring only or something else as well?

I found this post:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ht=guardian+13

Also did standing point changed this year on Guardians? I am reading 31mm on 2015 model vs 26mm (on 2014) ?
http://www.salomon.com/others/produc...-mnc-16-s.html

Thanks!

the 13 is a bit lighter with more plastic.

[çayzi]

I can get 2014 Duke for good price. Anyone knows what is the improvements on 2015 model over 2014 model, if any?

Also how "worse" Tour F12 would be compare to Duke or Baron in therms of downhill performance? Is it even noticeable for user?

Thanks!

[stuckathuntermtn]

One big downside is their mounting. They have weird screws for the heel. It's a clusterfuck to use them with inserts. It requires a lathe and hex studs. In the end I did not pursue an insert setup since the skis I have them on are quite the one ski quiver.

They have a floating heel, I guess? Does that impact the skiing at all? I know that's a thing that some plates do, usually, but not always, they have floating toe screws too. Seems like it would take pressure off the shovels with just a floating heel. Or does it make no difference whatsoever?

I can get 2014 Duke for good price. Anyone knows what is the improvements on 2015 model over 2014 model, if any?

Also how "worse" Tour F12 would be compare to Duke or Baron in therms of downhill performance? Is it even noticeable for user?

Thanks!

I think if you're not a big guy, or 24/7 charger, or prone to breaking things the F12 is a solid all-around binding. No personal experience though. Seems similar to an Adrenalin 13.

[WaistDeepGroomers]

I can get 2014 Duke for good price. Anyone knows what is the improvements on 2015 model over 2014 model, if any?

Also how "worse" Tour F12 would be compare to Duke or Baron in therms of downhill performance? Is it even noticeable for user?

Thanks!

Even though the F12 heel piece feels a little scary/flimsy at first, I have found them to ski just as well. At least I never noticed a difference.

[thewon]

Even though the F12 heel piece feels a little scary/flimsy at first, I have found them to ski just as well. At least I never noticed a difference.

Like i said before, the f12 tested just as stiff and even a tad stiffer in the toe than the duke. I've skied both many times and wouldn't even consider the duke as i only ski a din of 8 and never pre release. I ski a lot of bumps with them too. Deep rutted firm ones at times. No issues.