California is Burning (Again)

**TBS** · 11-03-2019, 08:26 PM

^^^ Where was that vehicle? North of the 40th parallel I trust, or they would be imposters
I have a soft spot in my heart for the mythical State of Jefferson.

Originally Posted by 54-46

Can’t cure ignorance ^^^^

Ignorance can be cured with education. It's Stupid that can't be cured

**old goat** · 11-04-2019, 09:46 AM

Big article in the sac bee about voters in the State of Jefferson refusing to raise taxes to pay for fire fighting and prevention. Maybe they deserve to be burned out.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...mainstage_lead
In Truckee there's no money for defensible space inspections, let alone community wide fire prevention measures. The Tahoe Donner subdivision HOA has its own, stricter standards for clearing and building codes and has surrounded itself with firebreaks; the rest of the town gets by on hopes and prayers.

**mcski** · 11-04-2019, 10:28 AM

TD HOA is one of the best funded HOAs I’ve ever heard of so no surprise they are on it.

TC has really stepped up defensible space inspections this year so I’m kinda surprised Truckee is struggling with it

**bodywhomper** · 11-04-2019, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

Big article in the sac bee about voters in the State of Jefferson refusing to raise taxes to pay for fire fighting and prevention. Maybe they deserve to be burned out.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...mainstage_lead
In Truckee there's no money for defensible space inspections, let alone community wide fire prevention measures. The Tahoe Donner subdivision HOA has its own, stricter standards for clearing and building codes and has surrounded itself with firebreaks; the rest of the town gets by on hopes and prayers.

There is a very good reason why paradise had no municipal sewer system, even in the commercial areas, and why their water district had a brand new set of directors and GM in 2018.

Statewide, stricter enforcement by fire marshals and creative funding sources for residents to address infractions would change a lot about how wildfires affect the state. The fire marshals throughout the state would respond, “that’d be great!”

KQ · 11-04-2019, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by frorider

Attachment 300769

I've not read "The Art of the Deal" but can't imagine it really needs to be more than one page that says:

"Threaten, Lie and Demean"

**liv2ski** · 11-04-2019, 01:17 PM

I was reading an article today that said the last 3 years of fires, drought conditions and power being cut off has thrown many people in CA over the edge and they are now thinking of leaving the state. Please move, there isn't enough room and resources for all the damn people here.

**SumJongGuy** · 11-04-2019, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

Please move, there isn't enough WATER for all the damn people here.

Fixed to be more specific..

**LightRanger** · 11-04-2019, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by TBS

^^^ Where was that vehicle? North of the 40th parallel I trust, or they would be imposters
I have a soft spot in my heart for the mythical State of Jefferson.

Oh man. I've seen SOJ banners on land as far down the Sierra as ~37.97, -120.37. I'm sure there are some farther south than that too.

SOJ is at least as much a state of mind at this point.

**TBS** · 11-04-2019, 04:34 PM

Yeah, no Sonora is too far south to be in State of Jefferson. Wannabees
And it’s more a state out of its mind.

**abraham** · 11-04-2019, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by LightRanger

Oh man. I've seen SOJ banners on land as far down the Sierra as ~37.97, -120.37. I'm sure there are some farther south than that too.

SOJ is at least as much a state of mind at this point.

Seen lots of those signs in Chico, just barely too far south I guess?

**hercule33** · 11-04-2019, 04:53 PM

People say Ohio is a bellwether for politics, then California is a bellwether for the future of the country. Not willing to raise taxes/fees to fix big issues and paying huge consequences, huge divide between city and rural areas and a state government that can’t get anything accomplished. Now people are so frustrated in California they want to split it up. I wonder how long before states other than Texas start talking about succession from the union especially if a national election doesn’t go their way.

**glademaster** · 11-04-2019, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by hercule33

People say Ohio is a bellwether for politics, then California is a bellwether for the future of the country. Not willing to raise taxes/fees to fix big issues and paying huge consequences, huge divide between city and rural areas and a state government that can’t get anything accomplished. Now people are so frustrated in California they want to split it up. I wonder how long before states other than Texas start talking about succession from the union especially if a national election doesn’t go their way.

We saw how that worked out for everyone last time around, didn't we?

**old goat** · 11-04-2019, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by hercule33

People say Ohio is a bellwether for politics, then California is a bellwether for the future of the country. Not willing to raise taxes/fees to fix big issues and paying huge consequences, huge divide between city and rural areas and a state government that can’t get anything accomplished. Now people are so frustrated in California they want to split it up. I wonder how long before states other than Texas start talking about succession from the union especially if a national election doesn’t go their way.

The SOJ folks are a handful of libertarian folks who don't want to pay any taxes or have anyone tell them what to do--they certainly don't reflect the feelings of most people.
Californians may not want to raise taxes--nobody does--but we already pay high taxes and we send a lot more to DC than we get in return. We subsidize poorer states.
We have huge gaps between rich and poor in part because CA is still an attractive place to live which drives up the cost of housing. The wealth and income gap and the rural/urban divide are hardly limited to CA.
And we weren't dumb enough to fall for Trump's bullshit--we had the highest percentage of votes for Clinton of any state.

**splat** · 11-04-2019, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

I was reading an article today that said the last 3 years of fires, drought conditions and power being cut off has thrown many people in CA over the edge and they are now thinking of leaving the state. Please move, there isn't enough room and resources for all the damn people here.

Escape From CA....starring Snake Pliskin

**hercule33** · 11-05-2019, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

The SOJ folks are a handful of libertarian folks who don't want to pay any taxes or have anyone tell them what to do--they certainly don't reflect the feelings of most people.
Californians may not want to raise taxes--nobody does--but we already pay high taxes and we send a lot more to DC than we get in return. We subsidize poorer states.
We have huge gaps between rich and poor in part because CA is still an attractive place to live which drives up the cost of housing. The wealth and income gap and the rural/urban divide are hardly limited to CA.
And we weren't dumb enough to fall for Trump's bullshit--we had the highest percentage of votes for Clinton of any state.

Look, I like California and I do find it funny that people from red states call it socialist, even though like you said they get “wealth redistribution” from California’s federal taxes. By the way, those red states are for small government and low taxes. Uh huh.

Also, California has been leading the way in terms of many issues, perhaps the biggest is environmental regulation. Yes, not all California’s environmental regulations have been brilliant but overall the United States has become much more like California on environmental regulations than vice versa.

And way before Trump, we elected an actor as the leader of our state.

With all that being said, for as long as I can remember the state government has been gridlocked. It has gotten so bad that pretty much anything with a semblance of significance is passed on a proposition. Politicians get recalled when people get upset which is not how I think a democracy should work but that is how we got Arnold. We really haven’t solved any big problems from Unions to PGE or fire danger. I wonder if anything to help mitigate the fire danger or PGE will have to be a proposition.

Lastly, California may have voted for Clinton but you can argue that it got Trump elected. Our innovation led to the creation of social media/Facebook which both the Russians and the Trump campaign exploited to suppress votes in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And way before 2016, Google and Facebook’s filter bubbles created a personalized Truman show for the pubic amplifying the polarization in this country and paving the way for a candidate like Trump.

**frorider** · 11-05-2019, 08:14 AM

By that logic, anyone pissed at how Walmart has obliterated local businesses should blame the state of Arkansas?

**TahoeJ** · 11-05-2019, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

Big article in the sac bee about voters in the State of Jefferson refusing to raise taxes to pay for fire fighting and prevention. Maybe they deserve to be burned out.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...mainstage_lead
In Truckee there's no money for defensible space inspections, let alone community wide fire prevention measures. The Tahoe Donner subdivision HOA has its own, stricter standards for clearing and building codes and has surrounded itself with firebreaks; the rest of the town gets by on hopes and prayers.

As a Tahoe Donner home owner... I can attest to them being on top of it, very impressive. Especially with dead trees on your property, they do not fuck around. It makes it easier to retain homeowners insurance, which is nice.

Did you know that's the biggest HOA in the country?

**old goat** · 11-05-2019, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by hercule33

And way before Trump, we elected an actor as the leader of our state.

Two of them actually. Not surprising since actor is the most common profession in the state (well, the south state at least). And I'm not Arnold qualifies as an actor. Reagan does, but only because he masterfully portrayed a President.

Re Tahoe Donner--I believe a lot of it was built on the site of a fire started by workers building I80 cooking lunch. (Caltrans never restored the south slope of Donner Ridge--the unrestrained runoff from that mountainside is funneled directly into our little subdivision.)

**LightRanger** · 11-05-2019, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

As a Tahoe Donner home owner... I can attest to them being on top of it, very impressive. Especially with dead trees on your property, they do not fuck around. It makes it easier to retain homeowners insurance, which is nice.

Did you know that's the biggest HOA in the country?

Word. They're on it.

Not the biggest. I have heard third biggest (but never biggest). Not sure if third is accurate either. Check out these people... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poinciana,_Florida

**hercule33** · 11-05-2019, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by frorider

By that logic, anyone pissed at how Walmart has obliterated local businesses should blame the state of Arkansas?

I wouldn’t blame the state of Arkansas for Walmart but I would say that Walmart does reflect the values of Arkansas. Ditto for Google and Facebook reflecting the values of Silicon Valley.

**hutash** · 11-05-2019, 11:00 PM

For the last 175 years all the people moving to California came from all the states that bitch about California. If we had more room, they woukd still be coming. People love to bitch about what they are jealous/envious of, even if they won't admit it.

Most of the people here are from somewhere else...they is a reason. Most of us born here know what it is.

**bodywhomper** · 11-06-2019, 12:35 AM

I heard in California they sleep out every night.

**bodywhomper** · 11-06-2019, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by hercule33

People say Ohio is a bellwether for politics, then California is a bellwether for the future of the country. Not willing to raise taxes/fees to fix big issues and paying huge consequences, huge divide between city and rural areas and a state government that can’t get anything accomplished. Now people are so frustrated in California they want to split it up. I wonder how long before states other than Texas start talking about succession from the union especially if a national election doesn’t go their way.

Specific to the thread topic, this year, the governor unilaterally approved a relatively big chunk of $$ for wildfire mitigation projects to begin in 2019 and he suspended all regulations that could slow down starting “construction” on those projects this year, such as compliance with CEQA. It’s a small (but new) step for the state government of quickly moving in a new direction.

Also, a handful of years ago, the USFS Regional office that includes CA worked out an agreement with the state (calfire) to allow non-federal agencies to do fuel reduction/forest health activities in National Forest. I believe the pilot project is in part of the north fork American river headwaters.

**hercule33** · 11-06-2019, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Specific to the thread topic, this year, the governor unilaterally approved a relatively big chunk of $$ for wildfire mitigation projects to begin in 2019 and he suspended all regulations that could slow down starting “construction” on those projects this year, such as compliance with CEQA. It’s a small (but new) step for the state government of quickly moving in a new direction.

Also, a handful of years ago, the USFS Regional office that includes CA worked out an agreement with the state (calfire) to allow non-federal agencies to do fuel reduction/forest health activities in National Forest. I believe the pilot project is in part of the north fork American river headwaters.

Unfortunately this kind of proves my point. The state government pretty much ignores the problem until there are horrific wildfires for multiple years and then tries to catch up. Maybe I am old school, but it would be nice if the government was being much more proactive before the wildfire became national news.

Most people agree that the role of government is to protect the people. I would argue that protection includes things such as wildfires and earthquakes. California has a building code so that when an earthquake hits buildings don’t crumble. We should be looking at what the correct solutions are to protect us from wildfires. I am not a wildfire expert so I don’t know what they are, but others do.

End of rant

**bodywhomper** · 11-06-2019, 12:38 PM

Look up the california wildfire wikipage. There have been many destructive wildfires in the past handful of decades. Many of them received national attention when they occurred.

The state government ignored (or misunderstood) the problem for a long time and their current actions are pretty slow, but also, addressing the problem is expensive and requires a lot of citizen (literal) buy-in. It’s expensive to retrofit an old roof and attic vents.

There is also the land use problem. Where I live, the federal agency with an inholding in my neighborhood (BLM) has done nothing for management of its forest property since they became owners of the land many decades ago. Locally, they know that it’s a problem, but fiscally and at a regional or national level, it’s a low priority. Adjacent private property owners can do what they are legally allowed to do on their lands related to fire mitigation. But they can’t touch the adjacent tinderbox.

20 years ago, the federal wildlife agency held up large fuel break/reduction projects in SoCal that were sponsored by the state because they plowed through rare high quality habitat of protected spp, and they were concerned about additional growth inducement effects into those areas. many of those areas burned down, along with the adjacent neighborhoods in 2003.

With EQ hazard, the hazard does not change, only human understanding of the hazard and our decisions related to the hazard. After the BIG EQs occur, that hazard could possibly become dynamic. With wildfire, the viewpoint is that the current hazard is dynamic and the human decisions related to addressing the hazard is also dynamic. There is not very clear consensus in the science of wildfire ecology, forest management, structural hazard mitigation, and land use policy.