Enough of Park City, time to flame one wasatch

[itsnowjoke]

Itsnowjoke sez....

The train idea is a great idea. It's an awesome idea. In fact, when we were discussing Skilink, I claimed that this would be the optimum solution.

Because of the grade involved, I thought it would be better to take the line up Big Cottonwood and "T" at the top into PC and LCC, but as laid- out, this will do.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think it will happen. Because of cost. Here's how it will go down:

A majority of people will support the idea. Because it's a great idea. Then the cost will rear it's ugly head. It will be a billion dollar project. The ski areas will offer to kick in 100 or so mil, but further realistic funding won't be available.

The ski areas, having pledged to be good sports by participating in the Mountain Accord, will say that they stepped up to the plate and tried to make this work.

They will then forge ahead with One Wasatch, for a fraction of the train cost. Some land swaps will occur, everyone will claim it's a win, the ski areas will be linked.

Before you get your panties ruffled, remember, the train scenario is my first choice. But it's serious pie-in-the-sky.

[TheMessenger]

The train idea is the stupidest idea ever. Besides being a total economic boondoggle, what no one talks about is what the actual impact of a train would be on the canyons themselves. Trains would absolutely permanently wreck the bottom of big and/or little cottonwood canyons, altering their character forever. For what? The five weekends a year the traffic is actually a problem? You would basically have to dig, bulldoze and blast two additional lanes for the trains, essentially making it a four lane highway. It would be an environmental nightmare.

Do not want!

[Skidog]

The train idea is the stupidest idea ever. Besides being a total economic boondoggle, what no one talks about is what the actual impact of a train would be on the canyons themselves. Trains would absolutely permanently wreck the bottom of big and/or little cottonwood canyons, altering their character forever. For what? The five weekends a year the traffic is actually a problem? You would basically have to dig, bulldoze and blast two additional lanes for the trains, essentially making it a four lane highway. It would be an environmental nightmare.

Do not want!

I agree. I do not want either. When driving to alta yesterday I noticed that any scenario here is a huge pain. Train? Would look ugly. All those houses on the lower right side going up LCC would have a train running overhead?? No way.
As for surface road? Doesn't seem to me either side of LCC road has any room for another lane without a huge undertaking like any other transport solution proposed.
While I don't like it, lifts are probably the answer if the canyons are all to be "connected".

[bigdude2468]

I have seen the light, itsnowjoke has it exactly right. They know damn well they can never build a rail line up LCC due to the cost and the environmental aspect. I can see an expensive study by consultants that comes to this realization. The Wasatch Accord will wring their hands, act all upset and then proclaim that OneWasatch is the only alternative.

I did a little more searching and as it turns out LCC has an average grade of 7.5% with the maximum being 18%. There is no light rail train or subway anywhere that navigates grades this steep. Streetcars and funiculars using cables can certainly do this but I have never seen one of these that take a route with many twists and turns.
TheMessenger is also right about the traffic in the canyon. Of course this year with low snow has been a breeze except for just a couple of exceptions. Driving back to Denver on a Sunday in perfect weather is a lot worse than what we have to put up with.

[skifishbum]

yo bro that would be 1% runnin smack and panty twistins and 9% using this place to irl interact w/ a lot of damn good mags
but your jongy come lately treehuggin nimby bitchfest ass probably won't ever get the true beauty of this e hole.
here a useful idiot link
rode er on the honeymoon
http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10...ailway-at.html

[Skidog]

I have seen the light, itsnowjoke has it exactly right. They know damn well they can never build a rail line up LCC due to the cost and the environmental aspect. I can see an expensive study by consultants that comes to this realization. The Wasatch Accord will wring their hands, act all upset and then proclaim that OneWasatch is the only alternative.

I did a little more searching and as it turns out LCC has an average grade of 7.5% with the maximum being 18%. There is no light rail train or subway anywhere that navigates grades this steep. Streetcars and funiculars using cables can certainly do this but I have never seen one of these that take a route with many twists and turns.
TheMessenger is also right about the traffic in the canyon. Of course this year with low snow has been a breeze except for just a couple of exceptions. Driving back to Denver on a Sunday in perfect weather is a lot worse than what we have to put up with.

BTW I envision any light rail to be a raised rail on the LCC creek side. This would give some ability to control grade with different height towers gradually increasing and remove a bit of the twisties.

[Bromontana]

yo bro that would be 1% runnin smack and panty twistins and 9% using this place to irl interact w/ a lot of damn good mags
but your jongy come lately treehuggin nimby bitchfest ass probably won't ever get the true beauty of this e hole.
here a useful idiot link
rode er on the honeymoon
http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10...ailway-at.html

I'm just grateful you reserve local panty twisted insults for me, being that you're a bootleg WRA without the brains and the soul, the attention almost morphs into a compliment.

Cog is relevant, that's the only type of train that could go up LCC iiuc. Maybe the other philosophers in here will actually read the proposal and stop asking what it says.

[bigdude2468]

What is the maximum speed of a cog rail, snails are probably faster. Ya you could control some of the twists but you can't change the elevation gain. Construction on the creek side??? Now you are truly talking a BIG B in $.

[Johnny Deep]

The train idea is the stupidest idea ever. Besides being a total economic boondoggle, what no one talks about is what the actual impact of a train would be on the canyons themselves. Trains would absolutely permanently wreck the bottom of big and/or little cottonwood canyons, altering their character forever. For what? The five weekends a year the traffic is actually a problem? You would basically have to dig, bulldoze and blast two additional lanes for the trains, essentially making it a four lane highway. It would be an environmental nightmare.

Do not want!

^^^This.

To the morons that think this is a good idea, you pay for it!

[Johnny Deep]

BTW I envision any light rail to be a raised rail on the LCC creek side. This would give some ability to control grade with different height towers gradually increasing and remove a bit of the twisties.

5 billion price tag aside....

[tele.savalas]

Sounds to me like a monorail.

[Bromontana]

This map looks better than what I'm reading in the details. If this plan is followed and there is an increased level of certainty going forward with land going to USFS control, I think it's worth serious consideration. The development at Solitude below the main village (I think that's the spot) is not sexy at all.. a big part of BCC's charm is the open spaces. Looking at that Silver Fork plan it seems ok if the boundary is locked down. There's a lot of land going to USFS on there, with less base acreage given and some restrictions on future boundary expansions I think it's a step in the right direction.

[SkiGinger]

Well Alta is removing itself from the accord because of Grizzly Gulch.

[loveujongtime]

Arise, said the necromancer.

(I've got kids younger than this thread).