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  1. #1
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    GPS vs. Smart phone for back country travel

    My Garmin etrex 30 has died and I am wondering it is feasible to replace it with a smart phone in order to get more functionality from a single device. I don't have one at this point. Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    The biggest problem with using a smartphone GPS is that the battery drains too quickly. So if you are going to go that route, you need some sort of solar charger. Personally I'll take my eTrex 20 over my phone any day. Seems much more durable and it's easy to pack along a couple spare batteries.

  3. #3
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    Happy phone plus power pack user here. I used to do standalone units, but the interface system was always fairly clunky. Smartphone apps make it a cinch. External power packs are super cheap these days, and will last you fine for several days (putting the phone in "airplane mode" helps tremendously with battery life and you can still use the GPS). You'd only need a solar charger outside of 3-4 days, IMO.

    The new Samsung Galaxy S5 is waterproof/rainproof to a certain IPX standard, as is the Galaxy S4 Active. Worth considering. I have a Moto X... been sticking with Motorola because they still consistently fare far better than other brands in cell reception. Building radios since the 1930s will do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  4. #4
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    GPS = almost always get an accurate reading, water and shock resistant, glove-friendly button instead of touch screen models available, fully functional menu to switch between datums and coordinate types, and long battery life.

    Smartphone = not always a reliable reading, sometimes very slow to get a reading, needs a case to be water and shock resistant, not glove-friendly, apps not always fully functional, kill batteries in less than a day

    Stand alone GPS will be superseded by smartphones eventually, but not quite yet. Smartphones do work well if you understand the limitations.

  5. #5
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    I've got an S5 with a shock resistant case that has been great so far. With my last phone, I bought a jumbo aftermarket battery for 2+ days worth of GPS-only functionality. I've been really happy with the setup so far, but all the weaknesses mentioned above are true. The GPS can be finicky, touch interface can be a pain in crummy weather, the consequences of breaking your phone in the BC can be $uper costly. On the plus side, you've got a camera and cell phone at your disposal for no added weight.

  6. #6
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    I can run a mile around a track and my smart phone will think I've gone up and down 2200 feet. Would rather have the GPS unit... or a good map...
    Its not that I suck at spelling, its that I just don't care

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    I can run a mile around a track and my smart phone will think I've gone up and down 2200 feet.
    Your smart phone's smarter than you think....

    That's how I feel after some weekends.


    So what's the best smartphone for outdoorsy types? Believe it or not, I am still using a 2007 Casio waterproof flip phone. It's indestructible, battery lasts forever and I have an ipad for internet access. Texting on it sucks, tho. Be nice to just take one piece of hardware everywhere.

    Thinking S5...?
    Last edited by BigDaddy; 09-04-2014 at 06:52 AM.
    Screw the net, Surf the backcountry!

  8. #8
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    i'm in the oldschool flip phone turned off cept emergencies
    a compass and topo map
    if you need a gps or smartphone to travel in the bc or an app to make decisions
    you are not the drone i seek to travel with
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
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  9. #9
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    I use mine really only for time and other tracking data not so much to navigate.

    I use backcountry navigator pro. Good maps. Downloadable sections for your trip so no data required. Seems to work as effectively as a stand alone as I have traveled with partners using standalones and data is close enough for me to say it "matches". YMMV.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i'm in the oldschool flip phone turned off cept emergencies
    a compass and topo map
    if you need a gps or smartphone to travel in the bc or an app to make decisions
    you are not the drone i seek to travel with
    Agreed.

    00

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
    Your smart phone's smarter than you think....

    That's how I feel after some weekends.


    So what's the best smartphone for outdoorsy types? Believe it or not, I am still using a 2007 Casio waterproof flip phone. It's indestructible, battery lasts forever and I have an ipad for internet access. Texting on it sucks, tho. Be nice to just take one piece of hardware everywhere.

    Thinking S5...?
    I had one of those Casios until 2010 or so. Great for party tricks.

    Assuming Android, S4 Active, S5, or Moto like I mentioned above for the reception. You can always buy a waterproof/shockproof case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i'm in the oldschool flip phone turned off cept emergencies
    a compass and topo map
    if you need a gps or smartphone to travel in the bc or an app to make decisions
    you are not the drone i seek to travel with
    Very true. These are necessary skills that many newbies with smart phones/GPS users lack. Nothing wrong with the new technologies, but you should first be competent with the old ones first.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardsale2 View Post
    My Garmin etrex 30 has died and I am wondering it is feasible to replace it with a smart phone in order to get more functionality from a single device. I don't have one at this point. Thoughts?
    Part of the question is how you'd use either device and the data along with the accuracy you'll need at a given moment. The apps available for smart phones keep on coming and get better, along with syncing with your computer(s) and other devices. The smart phones are so much more versatile and can be leveraged for many other uses vs a single minded GPS and I have yet to really feel the need to also bring my eTrex since getting an iPhone.....as long as it has power.
    Best regards, Terry
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Very true. These are necessary skills that many newbies with smart phones/GPS users lack. Nothing wrong with the new technologies, but you should first be competent with the old ones first.
    I completely agree. Your map and compass will never need to be recharged. I love the rugged, weatherproof USGS topos you can pick up these days. That being said, gps can be a great additional tool. However, I would never want to rely on a cell phone due to crappy battery life when using gps. Gps could be nice for relaying precise coordinates to SAR or friends you're trying to link up with tho. Oh, and geocaching if you're into that sorta thing.

  15. #15
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    More of a tec talk question I suppose, but do smartphones actually run off GPS satellites?

    I always thought they just triangulated you from cell towers, so no service = no gps?

    Never been somewhere where I wanted to find out first hand, maybe someone else has. I've always just carried my Garmin from 15 years ago or so now.
    Live Free or Die

  16. #16
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    For apple the 5 has a much better battery life than the 4, especially when it's super cold. I find my phone is not very user friendly in the BC so it's limited to picture duty. The screen is difficult to see and taking gloves off when it's really cold is no fun. GPS does beat a map and compass in a white out though.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    More of a tec talk question I suppose, but do smartphones actually run off GPS satellites?
    Yes the ones with GPS do. - iphones Galaxies etc

    I always thought they just triangulated you from cell towers, so no service = no gps?
    the GPS apps store your choice of map tiles no need for cell service.

    Never been somewhere where I wanted to find out first hand, maybe someone else has
    Battery and robustness aside the phones work fine. Better, bigger screens than most handhelds. Better user interface.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  18. #18
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    As previously mentioned, it all depends on the desired use and precision/accuracy requirements. I've recently been using a tablet with geo-referenced maps and like it a lot as making garmin readable background maps out of arc shape files was time consuming and not always easy to produce the desired product. Under open skies and away from potential sources of signal degradation/deflection, the iPad seems to give reasonably comparable results to my recreational garmin 76csx at scales >1:20000. But when the canopy gets thick, or on steep north aspects, or near large cliffs bands etc., I still prefer the 12 channel garmin. And this is the latest source of my frustration is that neither the tablet/phone makers or garmin seems to make available the actual tech specs for their products anymore. I use the satellite page often to see how many and where the satellites are located to help judge the actual accuracy and precision of the data received. I miss the day when we had proper units that we could review, and modify, the data limits like signal-to-noise-ratio, satellite horizon limits, horizontal and vertical degree of precisions, depending on the type of work and data we were collecting. It's been great since the military's imposed selective availability was turned off at the turn of the last millennium & to have all these new toys to use, but the manufacturers have taken away so much from the lower end units that they seem to have decided are not necessary for the general public.

    So long rant made short, for quick days in known terrain where I just want a general location reference, track vertical, or some other low-level use, then a smartphone or similar product would be fine. Any detailed route finding in tricky terrain, extreme weather conditions, & for more extended trips , I'll keep my older garmin 12channel receiver.

    And I am also of the camp that if someone comes out to the field with their fancy gadget, but is clueless with the old compass and map, I don't want them on my crew (and most of these are newly trained techs and professionals fresh from the classroom :O )

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMountainHound View Post
    I've recently been using a tablet with geo-referenced maps and like it a lot as making garmin readable background maps out of arc shape files was time consuming and not always easy to produce the desired product. Under open skies and away from potential sources of signal degradation/deflection, the iPad seems to give reasonably comparable results to my recreational garmin 76csx at scales >1:20000. But when the canopy gets thick, or on steep north aspects, or near large cliffs bands etc., I still prefer the 12 channel garmin.
    Another option, if one wanted a dedicated tab: http://www.meetearl.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    I completely agree. Your map and compass will never need to be recharged. I love the rugged, weatherproof USGS topos you can pick up these days. That being said, gps can be a great additional tool. However, I would never want to rely on a cell phone due to crappy battery life when using gps. Gps could be nice for relaying precise coordinates to SAR or friends you're trying to link up with tho. Oh, and geocaching if you're into that sorta thing.
    The GPS allows you to be lazy if you choose. I use map and compass for triangulation and then check accuracy with the device to see if I have done the math right. BTW, a staffer at our local gear store (Outdoor Gear Exchange) explained that most cell phones id physical location via cell towers which relay to satellites unless you get a $300 add on to track them directly. That ended the conversation and I walked out with a replacement Etrex 30.

  21. #21
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    Dual Electronics XGPS 150

    $90 GPS receiver with Bluetooth to the phone. Works for me.
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Another option, if one wanted a dedicated tab: http://www.meetearl.com/
    That looks like very cool product. I'll have to keep an eye on its development. Thanks!

    (But I must admit, I hesitated clicking on a link saying 'meetearl', given this TGR and all!)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardsale2 View Post
    The GPS allows you to be lazy if you choose. I use map and compass for triangulation and then check accuracy with the device to see if I have done the math right. BTW, a staffer at our local gear store (Outdoor Gear Exchange) explained that most cell phones id physical location via cell towers which relay to satellites unless you get a $300 add on to track them directly. That ended the conversation and I walked out with a replacement Etrex 30.
    That staffer steered you astray for all modern smartphones I know of. But hey, nothing like misleading customers to sell product.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    That staffer steered you astray for all modern smartphones I know of. But hey, nothing like misleading customers to sell product.
    Yea, "relaying through a cell tower" doesn't jive with how GPS works. Not just for modern smartphones

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    i'm in the oldschool flip phone turned off cept emergencies
    a compass and topo map
    if you need a gps or smartphone to travel in the bc or an app to make decisions
    you are not the drone i seek to travel with
    I hear you man...I was a GPS avoider until a couple years ago when I had to learn to use one for work. I bought an eTrex 20 for $199 and have come to really appreciate it. Especially elk hunting in Montana where I'm almost always off trail, and land ownership can be a big concern--I have a topo map program of the whole state that shows all land ownership no matter where you are. Now I use it for bagging peaks and backpacking and everything. I always bring a paper map and a compass, but I have to admit I like that GPS a lot more than I ever thought I would.

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