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  1. #26
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    It bears repeating that most people who think "smart phone battery life sucks when used as a GPS" don't understand that you need to turn off the cell phone AND the Bluetooth AND the wireless Internet.

    It'll last for quite a long time if you do that. I leave my Bluetooth and wireless off 24/7, and my battery lasts about 2-3x as long...comparable to battery life with my old flip phone.

    I agree that if you're somewhere that you're depending on your GPS to save your life, you have a bad plan. A compass, plastic map, and navigation skills won't fail or run out of batteries like even a dedicated GPS will.

    That being said, GPS performance varies between smartphones: some are better, some are worse. I don't know how to find that out short of testing it yourself, though.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardsale2 View Post
    The GPS allows you to be lazy if you choose. I use map and compass for triangulation and then check accuracy with the device to see if I have done the math right. BTW, a staffer at our local gear store (Outdoor Gear Exchange) explained that most cell phones id physical location via cell towers which relay to satellites unless you get a $300 add on to track them directly. That ended the conversation and I walked out with a replacement Etrex 30.
    That isn't correct. Most smartphones have GPS, even my 4 yr old Android (which I keep around as it's unlocked/use abroad). Smartphones can use assisted GPS (A-GPS) and he gave you a garbled misleading version of that. GPS by itself has a very low baud rate and can be a battery hog because the antenna has to stay on for a long time. A-GPS allows the phone to communicate to towers and get some of the GPS information over the cell network. You can read up on the details, they are complex, it allows the GPS location to be faster and more accurate. However, the phone can still do GPS without it.

    FWIW, I found that my iphone 4 had a more noisy location when tracking a jog with GPS+airplane mode than GPS and no airplane mode, even though I was in Europe w/o being unlocked for travel (ie it could see the towers when not in airplane mode, but not actually send/receive data). I don't fully understand this. However, if I stood still the location was accurate even in GPS+airplane mode.

    I still prefer to reference the GPS location to a paper map and my old monochrome display, crufty interface, etrex is adequate for this.

  3. #28
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    I use iphone w the TopoMaps app. Airplane mode when you're not using it, turn off airplane mode to get gps location. This happens 10x/day. Very minimal battery use. I use the camera and then sometimes music at night.
    A phone plus a battery pack lasts 4-5 days.
    I've done this on the Teton crest trail, mammoth to Tioga, and 5 days in the Tetons at a yurt.
    FYI I've also tried solar chargers but haven't had great luck.

  4. #29
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    Some tips regarding maximizing iPhone battery life, per iHikeGPS instructions:

    Battery Life:
    You can turn off several settings to reduce the iOS device's drain on its battery when you are using iHikeGPS on a long hike. Adjust the following settings in Apple's “Settings” App:

    Tap “Wi-Fi”, then Turn off Wi-Fi.
    Tap “Bluetooth”, then turn Bluetooth off.
    Tap “Wallpapers & Brightness”, then turn down the screen brightness to the lowest acceptable level.
    Tap “iCloud”, then tap “Documents & Data”, turn off “Use Cellular”.
    Tap “Mail, Contacts, Calendars”. Tap “Fetch New Data”. Turn off “Push” and tap “Manually”.
    Tap “iTunes & App Store”, then turn off “Use Cellular Data”.

    Also:

    Plug the iOS device into a car charger on your way to the trailhead so that you start the hike with a completely charged battery.
    On the Track Screen, select  Until Drive  or  Always  when you start your hike. Put the iOS device to sleep when you are not looking at it. When you stop for lunch or to enjoy the view, on the Track Screen select  Off .
    (Don't forget to turn Track Recording back on before resuming your hike.)

    If you follow all the steps, you may be able to record tracks for about 10 to 12 hours of actual hiking. Use an external battery pack to extend this time.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Very true. These are necessary skills that many newbies with smart phones/GPS users lack. Nothing wrong with the new technologies, but you should first be competent with the old ones first.
    But there IS something wrong with the technologies if they cause gaper maroons to think the ONLY way to locate yourself is electronically with a $250+ gadget.

  6. #31
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    So, you are against automobiles and airplanes because some untrained idiot can hurt themselves?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  7. #32
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    ^^^ Yep. Actually, the first thing that came to mind for me, given the topic of this board, was avalanche transceivers...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    So, you are against automobiles and airplanes because some untrained idiot can hurt themselves?
    So when you predict someone else's thinking, you imagine yourself only stupider? We're not all idiots like you.

    You wanna show me where I said I'm "against" anything? Or are you just dragging knuckles through the e-snow again?

  9. #34
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    You really have to learn how to use your brain to navigate in the backcountry. Maps and compass are even secondary to looking, learning, imagining routes and validating with what you find. GPS is way down on the list, near a small bivy sack, way at the bottom of your pack for emergencies. The GPS in a phone is enough to, turn it on, grab your coordinates and find yourself on a map when you are totally lost.

    The reality is that even quality topo maps are insufficiently detailed to find and navigate the intricacies of most descent routes. That is what it is all about and the only way you can do that is perfecting the skill of looking at a line from afar/picture, planning an up route and determining where you are on that line (hardest). Its about practice, good practice and you won't have good practice with your nose in a device.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spats View Post
    It bears repeating that most people who think "smart phone battery life sucks when used as a GPS" don't understand that you need to turn off the cell phone AND the Bluetooth AND the wireless Internet.
    Keeping the phone turned off is fine if all you want to do is check coordinates occasionally to pinpoint your location, but if you want to keep a GPX track file of your route then you need to leave the device on, and in the case of phones that drains the battery relatively quickly compared to a conventional GPS, because even with all the apps turned "off" on your phone there's still stuff running that is draining your battery.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    But there IS something wrong with the technologies if they cause gaper maroons to think the ONLY way to locate yourself is electronically with a $250+ gadget.
    I agree you did not type "against", but only a pedantic jerk like ilc would read it any other way.

    I'll rephrase it for you...so you think automobiles and airplanes are wrong because some untrained idiot can hurt themselves?
    Last edited by hutash; 09-05-2014 at 09:05 PM.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    That staffer steered you astray for all modern smartphones I know of. But hey, nothing like misleading customers to sell product.
    I was loose on the details here. The guy who expressed this opinion didn't have the Etrex. I went across town and purchased it from EMS.

  13. #38
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    First, I don't get who is endorsing the smartphone over the gps as there are tons of instances where I don't get a gps signal for my smartphone and gps works fine. it seems to me that cell service is needed to use the gps, but i just recently became a smartphone convert.

    i used to think that a gps was a waste but now I find gps a very useful tool in the BC. do I always carry one? nope. but if i need to get somewhere fast, then they are essential. plus the land-use/private vs public property is key.

    I wouldn't rely on my smartphone. GPS, map and compass, or just the later two.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    I agree you did not type "against", but only a pedantic jerk like ilc would read it any other way.

    I'll rephrase it for you...so you think automobiles and airplanes are wrong because some untrained idiot can hurt themselves?
    You keep predicting others' thinking, and predicting wrongly, but remaining smug the whole time. You're crushing it.

  15. #40
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    Another vote for map and compass. And although I've carried a compass for 40 years I've never actually used it (I'm sure I would have if I'd done more desert hiking). Anyone who can't navigate in the mountains with just a map, compass, eyeballs, and brain should probably stay home. I get a kick out of reading about the explorers like Fremont who could divide their party, march through completely unknown, unmapped terrain, and manage to reunite at an agreed upon place at an agreed upon time weeks later.

    I do like my electric guitar tuner though.

    All the fancy electronics and the OP still couldn't find the right forum. Isn't there an app for that?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardsale2 View Post
    I was loose on the details here. The guy who expressed this opinion didn't have the Etrex. I went across town and purchased it from EMS.
    Gotcha. Guy still fed you bullshit though.


    Quote Originally Posted by BRUTAH View Post
    First, I don't get who is endorsing the smartphone over the gps as there are tons of instances where I don't get a gps signal for my smartphone and gps works fine. it seems to me that cell service is needed to use the gps, but i just recently became a smartphone convert.

    ...

    I wouldn't rely on my smartphone. GPS, map and compass, or just the later two.
    Smartphone GPS antennae are less sensitive that the antennae in most actual GPS units, as it seems you noticed, but you definitely don't need cell service. I've tracked mountain bike rides in Downieville (deep river canyons and trees) and checked my position at 12,000 feet in one of the more remote parts of the Sierra. No service in either place and the phone GPS worked fine.

    And on the second point, and to everybody who keeps saying "map and compass and know how to use them," well, yeah. I always carry a map and compass. My Silva Ranger has an inclinometer on it for field observations in the winter. I've been using a map and compass since... Age 7? (Cub Scouts edit... a bit more than half as long as Old Goat) It'd be pretty stupid to get lost due to a device with a predictably dead battery.

    And that kind of feeds into my point that I've found my phone accurate and reliable enough (with the external power source) for most BC use. Sure, sometimes the track is off by a few meters, and if I was, say, canyoneering or a GIS person, I would bring a Garmin (I own one). But 95% of the time, the phone is more convenient, has a better UI, makes it easier to export .gpx files if you feel like it, and almost all of us carry it anyway so it saves weight. I just don't see the need for a dedicated unit anymore except in limited circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  17. #42
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    My primary tools are preplanning, altimeter, and compass. I always have those and a paper topo map.

    I have rarely taken my GPS with me. Now it never comes along because I have a smartphone.

    Samsung Galaxy S5 + case + extra batteries = shock proof, water proof, glove friendly, accurate, long lived, versatile, photographic and topo maps.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    You keep predicting others' thinking, and predicting wrongly, but remaining smug the whole time. You're crushing it.
    At least I am not the one making stupid comments about how wrong technology can be. I am not predicting anything, just responding to your asinine comments. My suggestion to you is to not post stupid shit. Because gapers choose to use technology to do stupid shit is their choice, and not the fault of the technology.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    You keep predicting others' thinking, and predicting wrongly, but remaining smug the whole time. You're crushing it.
    Hi croaky! Are you done being a douche bag in the mountain biking forum for the season? Cool.

  20. #45
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    I rely heavily on my smartphone for exploring new mountain bike trails and finally have it pretty dialed. I currently use a Galaxy S4, will upgrade to the water resistant S5 asap. I carry a spare battery or 2, they are small and convenient; I won't own a phone without easily swappable batteries ever again. GPS readings are pretty solid even in the woods, acquires in a few seconds usually.

    I use a program called AlpineQuest, https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...est.full&hl=en. It lets you save or import maps for offline use from many sources, create and import gpx (and other formats probably) tracks, follow paths with audible warnings, and anything else I can think of needing. It should be noted that google no longer lets this (and other probably) program save their maps, I just use an older version with this still enabled. I'll usually have a google terrain and a sat map of the area im exploring in addition to any gpx tracks i can find on the internet. Yesterday I scouted a trail with google earth on my PC, drew a line on it, exported to gpx, imported to alpinequest and followed it without issue.

    YMMV

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Hi croaky! Are you done being a douche bag in the mountain biking forum for the season? Cool.
    You please me with your amusing misunderstandings of everything, and you clearly are a master of tunnel visioned solipsism. You earn the index+long finger salute, Irish style.

    As soon as some douchey Online Expert Meatspace Gomer defeates in SR, I'll be there to make OEMG eat his/her shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    At least I am not the one making stupid comments about how wrong technology can be. I am not predicting anything, just responding to your asinine comments. My suggestion to you is to not post stupid shit. Because gapers choose to use technology to do stupid shit is their choice, and not the fault of the technology.
    You're almost funnier as the Plus Sized Lifestyle Model or the bond attorney. Tell me more about how technology is, on its own, always beneficial. You know, how Chomsky says it, as he underhandedly apologizes for his emeritus employer. From there, segue into a lecture about gun control and then sidle up next to an apology for nuclear power experimentation. Be sure to ignore Feynmann's views here, he was just some idiot misanthrope with a jaundiced eye. And clearly you don't need to address anything like this screed of reactionary technophobia. These details are irrelevant, and one day we'll all live on planets other than Earth courtesy of technology's constant beneficence toward existence.
    Last edited by creaky fossil; 09-07-2014 at 03:19 PM.

  22. #47
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    Wow, somebody googled some big words. Get back on your meds.

    In case your reading comprehension has failed, which it clearly has, I simply said "Nothing wrong with the new technologies". How that technology is used is an entirely different discussion..

    Now please take that one finger salute and shove it deep up your ass.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  23. #48
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    Such a whiny little kid, taking his ball and going home. Have fun playing tetherball solo, Internet Argument Champ.

  24. #49
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    You really are a dick, but of course everybody already knows that. I guess somebody has to the resident asshole since Blurred hasn't been around much, are you Blurred?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  25. #50
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    Whatever you need to tell yourself about others posting on the internet, go right ahead. If someone needs to be a "dick" so you can feel superior, then of course that person is a "dick" regardless of reality's dictates to the contrary. You're always correct, and you rule the internet. Nice work.

    I hate technology so much and consider it so destructive, I'm posting on an internet forum. Yep. You truly are correct whenever you predict someone else's mindset.

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