Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[Buzzworthy]

Neither did I until it was too late. Hopefully saved you both money and headaches.

[Mustonen]

Counterpoint: the harness ain’t a big deal, you only need it if you don’t already have power to your thermostat, and if you do need it it ain’t hard. Old house needed the harness and I never had a problem with it. New house didn’t.

I don’t have ecobee stock or anything. Get whatever. But the fucking thing needs juice and that isn’t crazy and it’s likely that you already have it for a newer house/install. Nest has a battery option, whatever.

[Buzzworthy]

It’s not a big deal, you’re correct. Till it fails, twice. On a 104 degree day it’s not exactly a fun time to track down just another harness and all anyone has is the full kit to sell you. This is after troubleshooting both the thermostat and the furnace to figure out where the failure was. It was a fucking pain compared to how easy the Nest was. All one unit is definitely a lot nicer for these reasons.

House was built in 2012. Still needed the power harness.

[cl1953]

Hvac related input requested.

Just had two Mitsubishi ducted units installed. One for upstairs, one for down.
Each comes with a controller, don’t call it a thermostat.
Looking for a phone app remote that is compatible. A monitoring system.
Mitsubishi has the Kumo cloud, but they are back ordered forever and expensive. Installer said ecobee is compatible but I didn’t like the reviews and interweb comments.
So all I want is to be able to monitor the current temp in the house while we go skiing for the season. I can have someone come in to make any adjustments but especially with a new system, I just want to be sure the heat is on.
Any suggestions?

[dan_pdx]

Hvac related input requested.

Just had two Mitsubishi ducted units installed. One for upstairs, one for down.
Each comes with a controller, don’t call it a thermostat.
Looking for a phone app remote that is compatible. A monitoring system.
Mitsubishi has the Kumo cloud, but they are back ordered forever and expensive. Installer said ecobee is compatible but I didn’t like the reviews and interweb comments.
So all I want is to be able to monitor the current temp in the house while we go skiing for the season. I can have someone come in to make any adjustments but especially with a new system, I just want to be sure the heat is on.
Any suggestions?

I put one of these in the garage attic I mentioned a few pages back: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-Sm...1205/320218668

It doesn't need a hub, but does need wifi access. If it detects a leak or a freeze, it gives an audible alarm as well as giving you a notification on the phone app. It's battery powered and reports battery status in the app as well.

The two cons I ran into:
1) setting up the app and pairing it with the device is fiddly, but I got it working in the end.
2) It reports the temperature to the app, but only updates every 12 hours. The freeze/leak sensor is working all the time though. E.g., if it updates the app at 8 am and says it's 50 degrees inside, then your thermostat conks out and at noon it's freezing, you'll get an alarm, but the app will still say "50 degrees at 8 am". So depending on your specific situation, that's either a dealbreaker or NBD.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Honeywell

[zion zig zag]

I’ve had this for two years and it’s been fine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FB...haWwp13NParams


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[dan_pdx]

Can someone point me the right way on some wiring? This is in the bathroom, the switch that's pulled out controls a fan. Photo kind of sucks, but it's wired with two black wires and the ground. I'd like to replace that with a timer; the timer has connections for ground (I got that one), hot, neutral and load. How should I wire the timer? My voltage tester is MIA, but I can get a new one if that would be prudent.

[Core Shot]

Two blacks means the switch is just breaking the hot.
For a timer switch you need to break the hot but also have a neutral to run the timer.

[sirbumpsalot]

Two blacks on switch go to the hot and load on your timer - pull the white bundle out of the back of that mess and add a small new white wire from the neutral on your timer to that bundle (remove the wire nut, add your new white wire and twist back on tight). Gnd is up to you if you want to connect. Works fine without it.

[dan_pdx]

Two blacks on switch go to the hot and load on your timer - pull the white bundle out of the back of that mess and add a small new white wire from the neutral on your timer to that bundle (remove the wire nut, add your new white wire and twist back on tight). Gnd is up to you if you want to connect. Works fine without it.

Thanks Core Shot and Sir Bumpsalot, I appreciate it.

Sirbumps, those directions are very clear and make sense to me. One question: for the white wire to neutral, the only white wire I see in that spaghetti is attached to a black wire with a wire nut. Does that seem reasonable? Can I run the white from the timer into that same nut? Or should I pull everything out and look for another white wire? (Might be another one, just hard to see what's going on.)

[Core Shot]

A black wire going to white could.
Should.
Ideally.
Be the end of a circuit going back to neutral.

But who the fuck knows. You might need a tester.
Wiring is only as good as the last asshat that stuck his dick in the box.

[Ted Striker]

One question: for the white wire to neutral, the only white wire I see in that spaghetti is attached to a black wire with a wire nut.

Does the white have a piece of black tape around tape around it? If so, it's being used as hot. That was allowed by the NEC (maybe still is), but not the other way around.

If you put a tester or meter on that black wire, and it doesn't show hot, you can't assume it isn't unless you can trace its entire length.

[dan_pdx]

thanks guys, I'm starting to get the idea this may be getting above my pay grade.

So to recap what I'm understanding, a voltage tester might indicate that white+black connection is neutral, but it's not guaranteed unless I can trace its entire length, which would involve opening up walls.

Does the white have a piece of black tape around tape around it? If so, it's being used as hot. That was allowed by the NEC (maybe still is), but not the other way around.

If you put a tester or meter on that black wire, and it doesn't show hot, you can't assume it isn't unless you can trace its entire length.

No black tape around the white.


Might be time to bring in a pro to assume the liability :-)

[Core Shot]

A multi gang bang box in a bathroom?

I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a neutral in there somewhere

Has to be.

PS. Technically a neutral and a ground end up in the same place.
AC is so weird.
In theory a low draw like a timer switch could use a ground as a neutral. Not code. But not that unbelievable to do it.

[joeshek]

Replacing doors in a rental. Hollow core-> solid. Going with unfinished pine. Don't have a sprayer. What’s the easiest way to finish for durability? Reading about acrylic varnish...but new to me.

Danish oil or wipe on poly were my initial thoughts..

[Ted Striker]

The reason you can't assume the black isn't hot is that it could be switched somewhere else.

I once found a black in a light box that appeared to be dead no matter where I tried to trace it. Until I found out that there was an alarm that switched it.

I'm not mr pocket protector "code guy" but black connected to unlabeled white is definitely a code violation - especially if it's being used as neutral - that no licensed electrician would do.

edit: I have some thoughts but I'm running out the door, I could expand on it later

[sirbumpsalot]

Thanks Core Shot and Sir Bumpsalot, I appreciate it.

Sirbumps, those directions are very clear and make sense to me. One question: for the white wire to neutral, the only white wire I see in that spaghetti is attached to a black wire with a wire nut. Does that seem reasonable? Can I run the white from the timer into that same nut? Or should I pull everything out and look for another white wire? (Might be another one, just hard to see what's going on.)

To be sure you could run a meter on the hot vs white bundle...but typically in a switch box the neutrals are all wired together as passthrus as they aren't needed in a switch itself, just the hot is.

The timer needs a neutral to run his circuitry to act as the action of the switch (as opposed to your finger).

[3pin]

Cooktop / ventilation question:

Our electric cooktop is dying, and needs replacement on a shorter timeline than a bigger kitchen renovation we'd like to do in a couple years. It's a 30" cooktop with downdraft ventilation (center of the unit, not a standalone). Longer-term renovation would probably have us go to a bigger 36" induction cooktop and tackle ventilation separately, which is leaving a bit of a conundrum with options:

1) Get a similar electric cooktop with downdraft ventilation. Solves the size and ventilation issues, but more expensive and means waiting 2-3 months for it.
2) 30" induction cooktop with no ventilation (no real downdraft options in that size). Wife's preference for cooking performance, and more options for cheaper and faster fix than lane 1.
3) 30" electric cooktop with no ventilation. Cheapest, fastest solution for short-term before renovation.

There's no way I'd run a gas stove without ventilation from what I know on indoor air quality, but wife is wondering if it's possible/smart to go without downdraft or range hood for an induction or electric cooktop? Any armchair experts care to chime in?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Replacing doors in a rental. Hollow core-> solid. Going with unfinished pine. Don't have a sprayer. What’s the easiest way to finish for durability? Reading about acrylic varnish...but new to me.

Danish oil or wipe on poly were my initial thoughts..

I like water based poly, it's durable and water white (clear - not yellow). If you stain, use a stain conditioner to keep it from being blotchy.

[Ted Striker]

for the white wire to neutral, the only white wire I see in that spaghetti is attached to a black wire with a wire nut.

This one?


Looks a little like there's a red wire or red tape in there. Is this a 3-way? (one light fixture with two switches)

Or should I pull everything out and look for another white wire? (Might be another one, just hard to see what's going on.)

If you want to tackle it yourself, yes. I guarantee you'll find all of the neutrals tied together somewhere in there. Then you could do what bumpsalot suggested which is called a pigtail. Just pay attention to using the correct sized wire nut wrt how many wires. (and vacuuming the dust bunnies out of there wouldn't be a bad idea)

So to recap what I'm understanding, a voltage tester might indicate that white+black connection is neutral, but it's not guaranteed unless I can trace its entire length, which would involve opening up walls.

All of the connections are in boxes, so you don't need to look inside the walls.

[anotherVTskibum]

All of the connections are in boxes, so you don't need to look inside the walls.

You're apparently more optimistic about prior work than I am.


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[Ted Striker]

You're apparently more optimistic about prior work than I am.

Ha! Yeah true. When I was working on a demo crew we found all sorts of crazy stuff. I should've said "should be"

[present tense]

That’s a pressure switch for determining if the correct pressure is present in the heat exchanger/vent during ignition and operation.

Since a pressure switch is a safety a fault more often than not indicates you are having an issue with your vent, exchanger, or fan. If putting a new switch in doesn’t help send me a pm and I’ll walk you through some diagnostic checks.


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This post was super timely, upstairs furnace on the fritz. It goes through most of the startup cycle but sometimes short cycles several times and never fires. I’ve changed air filter, blew out flue pipe and checked for obstructions, cleaned flame detector, took out and tapped the high limit switch. The blower fan will also run in “on” position but never kicks on in auto, so I guess that’s good. Gas flow should be good with gas water heater in same space off same line working fine. Could be issue with gas valve?

Today I called around and either no one had a pressure switch or the ones that did wouldn’t sell them to “homeowners”.

Also, after cycling unit off for a few minutes I get a 3 short blink code which is something related to pressure switch on the diagnostics, but eventually that code goes away, I get a normal call for heat blinking, startup Continues, including hot surface ignition, but Then no flame. (sporadically) hot surface stops trying to fire but occasionally it cycles on and off repeatably and never times or locks the cycle out. Induction motor is rolling, hearing some clicks (pressure switch cutting in and out?), and hot surface starts glowing for a few seconds then cycles off, then flows bright, cycles off, flows bright, so on. Is it possible the hot surface is not getting hot enough to ignite?

Amazon is sending a pressure switch by Wednesday hopefully which coincides with earliest day I could get a tech out. Will see which gets her first.

[dan_pdx]

This one?

Looks a little like there's a red wire or red tape in there. Is this a 3-way? (one light fixture with two switches)

I'm learning a lot of new electrical terminology today - gang bang, 3-way, electrical work is clearly more fun than I thought. Sadly, no 3-ways here, each of the bathroom fixtures just has a single switch.

If you want to tackle it yourself, yes. I guarantee you'll find all of the neutrals tied together somewhere in there. Then you could do what bumpsalot suggested which is called a pigtail. Just pay attention to using the correct sized wire nut wrt how many wires. (and vacuuming the dust bunnies out of there wouldn't be a bad idea)

All of the connections are in boxes, so you don't need to look inside the walls.

OK, good stuff, maybe I'll pull out the spaghetti tangle tomorrow and look for all the neutrals tied together. I already used our vacuum's enticingly named crevice tool in there -- this is the cleaned up version, if you can believe that. But yeah, I'll take another pass when the other switches and wires are out.