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  1. #7076
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    5,761
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    HVAC question here. 2000 square foot house, the downstairs is essentially one big room with high ceilings, upstairs is a single bedroom that used to be a loft that was closed in, maybe 300-400 sq ft. So the door to the loft bedroom opens to the large open area below, open stair well. No duct work in the house since its all radiant floor heat and cast iron stove for heat.

    I have been kicking around the idea of installing a ductless mini split a/c in the upstairs bedroom for the a/c aspect only. I know you typically don't want to oversize an a/c because it will short cycle and not remove humidity, in this case dry climate with little daytime humidity and the cool should easily migrate with an open door. The difference in price between 12k-18k-24k btu units is minimal and I'm leaning towards 18k btu which is about double what I'd need for just the bedroom. Any reason to not oversize in this case, what am I missing?
    I have a 1700sf house with a similar loft (not a bedroom, more of a 2nd living room, no door, open stair up). I had a three unit mini split system installed (6k in downstairs master bed, 9k upstairs in the loft, 18k in the main living space downstairs).

    Anecdotally - I notice the upstairs unit’s affect on the house “more” than others for cooling. The loft in general is always hot due to heat rising and all… With the minisplit on it seems to pull the heat out of the other spaces in the house. Currently my 18k unit is down, condensate drain cracked, waiting on a replacement. We’ve had 90 deg weather here and have been able to bump the 6k and 9k unit to cover for the missing larger unit. It feels like the 6k unit downstairs is pumping cold air into the house, forcing the warm air up into the loft, and the 9k is sucking the heat out.

    Long story short, if you are planning on keeping that door open and wanting to use the loft unit to get some cooling affect elsewhere, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to upsize…. I’m no ME though….


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
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  2. #7077
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    4,283
    A quick update since it's been a minute. My little brother came out to help me for a few weeks and we've made tremendous progress.


    Flooring and shiplap are up

    Bathroom is tiled and tub is in (still working on trimming it out)

    Bedroom is painted

    Fireplace and front entry are tiled

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  3. #7078
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    2,669
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Is the fascia rough or smooth cedar? Gonna be smoove after it gets sanded. Proper way to prep rough cedar is wire brush sun exposed substrates to remove old sun dried tint(which is your UV protection in stain) and oxidized wood fibre. Then wash.
    Oil stains(linseed,tung, etc based) also add elasticity back to your cedar. Helps keep the cedar from cracking
    Sprayed ext.stain with no backbrush is going to look splotchy(like shit) and not give you proper protection.
    Sounds like cheaper dude is going to do a better job.
    You forgot oxalic acid on the greys

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  4. #7079
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    关你屁事
    Posts
    9,532
    Linseed/tung etc aren’t stains they are shitty finishes

  5. #7080
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,064
    Yet both are used extensively as the BASE oil in most oil based exterior stains

  6. #7081
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    A quick update since it's been a minute. My little brother came out to help me for a few weeks and we've made tremendous progress.


    Flooring and shiplap are up

    Bathroom is tiled and tub is in (still working on trimming it out)

    Bedroom is painted

    Fireplace and front entry are tiled

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    Nice, coming right along.

  7. #7082
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    I have a 1700sf house with a similar loft (not a bedroom, more of a 2nd living room, no door, open stair up). I had a three unit mini split system installed (6k in downstairs master bed, 9k upstairs in the loft, 18k in the main living space downstairs).

    Anecdotally - I notice the upstairs unit’s affect on the house “more” than others for cooling. The loft in general is always hot due to heat rising and all… With the minisplit on it seems to pull the heat out of the other spaces in the house. Currently my 18k unit is down, condensate drain cracked, waiting on a replacement. We’ve had 90 deg weather here and have been able to bump the 6k and 9k unit to cover for the missing larger unit. It feels like the 6k unit downstairs is pumping cold air into the house, forcing the warm air up into the loft, and the 9k is sucking the heat out.

    Long story short, if you are planning on keeping that door open and wanting to use the loft unit to get some cooling affect elsewhere, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to upsize…. I’m no ME though….


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Thanks for the info, sounds like I could help keep the downstairs cool with the loft unit. It may not even short cycle if the air is flowing down freely enough because enough hot air would be coming upstairs?

    Of the ones I can readily get in stock the 12k and 24k btu units are Fujitsu and the 18k btu is a Friedrich. I would lean towards the 18k since it seems like the sweet spot, but I don’t know much about that brand, gets decent reviews, but not nearly the number of reviews as the Fujitsu.

  8. #7083
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
    Posts
    5,761
    The challenge with minisplits (similar to window shakers and portable AC) is generally the thermostat is on the unit; so it’s going to be hard to prevent “short cycling” regardless.

    It’s best to just think of the temperature setting as a power/volume number, not as an actual temperature goal. IE, you might need to set it at 65deg to keep the room at 70deg without short cycling…

    Regarding brand - Get a well known brand, good warranty, available replacement parts, etc… There are a lot of mechanical plastic parts; and whenever there is mechanical plastic there are longevity issues (think printers). I would avoid some off brand minisplit from EBay. Pay for quality. Mine are Mitsubishi.


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  9. #7084
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,054
    Fuji and Mitsubishi are the best. Either one. I have both.

    Friederich was an old window unit. Do some research and see who’s behind them. Didn’t know they made splits.

    12k might be enough if 9k is spec for your bedroom. 24k seems overkill.

    If you find the right hustling hvac guy you can run your own line sets and electric and have them do the connections and charging.

  10. #7085
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    20,197
    if i am understanding correctly there's a door between the spaces?

    if so, that small bedroom is going to be freezing to push enough volume to affect the double hgt space

    consider a ducted minisplit & push air to the big room via a register, not just using overflow via the BR door
    locate the return in the ceiling under the loft

  11. #7086
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
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    21,054
    A box fan is needed. Duh.

    But yeah, if it’s in budget a two zone split is the best answer.

  12. #7087
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,661
    Bellingham solution: put a return in the floor upstairs that connects directly to a ceiling return downstairs: two big grates with 10" of duct connecting them. We saw a house in Bellingham where that was the only heat source for the upstairs.

  13. #7088
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    Fuji and Mitsubishi are the best. Either one. I have both.

    Friederich was an old window unit. Do some research and see who’s behind them. Didn’t know they made splits.

    12k might be enough if 9k is spec for your bedroom. 24k seems overkill.

    If you find the right hustling hvac guy you can run your own line sets and electric and have them do the connections and charging.
    Apparently Friedrich is made or is partnered Rheem. Still leaning towards the Fujitsu at 12k btu since they seem to be the "#2" in the market.

    And yeah, I think I found someone that will charge the lines and sign off on the install for the warranty.

  14. #7089
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    if i am understanding correctly there's a door between the spaces?

    if so, that small bedroom is going to be freezing to push enough volume to affect the double hgt space

    consider a ducted minisplit & push air to the big room via a register, not just using overflow via the BR door
    locate the return in the ceiling under the loft
    The way heat travels up there, I was honestly worried that the unit would never quit running trying to cool the downstairs and never getting to the set temp. I have to keep the door shut in the winter, with no heat turned on, or it will easily be 10-15 degrees warmer in that bedroom.

    The main purpose would be to cool the bedroom. But I was hoping that it may help for the downstairs during smokey periods where I don't want to open windows. I'm questioning weather it's even really needed, it's a handful of days a year and maybe I could get away with a window unit, or nothing. But it sure seems like it's getting hotter and smokier, and I can't sleep for shit in the heat. Future-proofing....

  15. #7090
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
    Posts
    10,248
    I like a window unit for occasional use. Not the prettiest thing but they’re effective and can be found pretty cheap. Also nice to have on hand if other systems fail.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  16. #7091
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
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    Backup heat is good.

    if you have an old boiler, ductless split is way more efficient in shoulder seasons.
    Even in deep winter they can be better to heat only the room you are in vs every room
    Last edited by Core Shot; 08-03-2022 at 07:17 PM.

  17. #7092
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Treading Water
    Posts
    6,686
    Fuck window units.


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    However many are in a shit ton.

  18. #7093
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    I’ve used a bunch of window units before, and I think they are really good at cooling, are pretty cheap to buy and run, but a couple years ago when the smoke got super bad, it just let so much smoke in it was outrageous. Since it was a temporary install there wasn’t a great way to get it all sealed up and it leaked a bunch.

  19. #7094
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    I’ve used a bunch of window units before, and I think they are really good at cooling, are pretty cheap to buy and run, but a couple years ago when the smoke got super bad, it just let so much smoke in it was outrageous. Since it was a temporary install there wasn’t a great way to get it all sealed up and it leaked a bunch.
    Mine let a lot of smoke in via the recirc/fresh air vent so I wound up cutting a hole in the side of the unit, ripping out the plastic vent fitting and covered it with duct tape. Waaay less smoke now!

  20. #7095
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    4,283
    First room is 100% finished, two other rooms just need to be unmasked. Pretty stoked on how it looks.

    I'm never doing this again.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  21. #7096
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    5,013
    Looks great!


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    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  22. #7097
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    11,701
    Yeah man. Looks awesome

  23. #7098
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    13,654
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post

    I'm never doing this again.
    This is how we learn, young padawan.

  24. #7099
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,054
    The best tool in your toolbox is your checkbook

  25. #7100
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    27,308
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    First room is 100% finished, two other rooms just need to be unmasked. Pretty stoked on how it looks.

    I'm never doing this again.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    Nice work! Just finished my entire upstairs a few days ago. Still a few minor touches to complete, but the flooring is down. It was a lot of work, that's for sure but definitely worth it. I couldn't believe how disgusting the old carpeting was when we pulled it up.

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