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Thread: Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice
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11-18-2021, 12:56 PM #5876
Short term winter fix: see climberevan's sketch. Apply that to all four sides. The bottom "horizontal" leg should extend out at least 4" and, quite frankly with the mess of that chimney penetration, as far as you can make it. Imagine a 360 skirt around the chimney. Where your skirt flashings inevitably overlap, make either a hook shape at the end of the piece of underlapped material to deflect transfer sideways under the overlap; OR bed the overlaps in a shitton of sealant & poprivet them together
Nail applied metal roofing is a failure waiting to happen, esp in cold country with the thermal cycling. Consider redoing the roof correctly.
While I don't have much faith in home inspectors, this roof install would have made my walk-away red flag list.
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11-18-2021, 01:20 PM #5877
There isn't (to my knowledge) an active leak. My concern stemmed from evidence of historical leaks on some ancient studs. I just sealed those stud cavities up with XPS and foam and am preparing to drywall it and didn't want any new moisture in there. When I saw that gap I hypothesized that is was where the water got in.
It did look like there may have been a old-timey water barrier but could have just been ancient flashing.
Thanks for the sketch - this is definitely on the list. Just wasn't going to happen today & I fly out tomorrow for several weeks.
Thanks for the skirt technique details. I want to do it right. The whole chimney needs remediation so this is part of that project.
RE: re-doing the roof - also definitely on the list. I bought this place eyes open, knowing it had warts. The roof material is actually in decent shape. Is it worth replacing the just nails with roof screws next summer as an intermediate step? Seems like a project I could handle if it's worth the effort. A new roof isn't in the '22 budget.
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11-18-2021, 03:34 PM #5878Registered User
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There is probably a shingle roof under the aluminum one, that why it’s not leaking. If you try to pull the nails, you’ll bend the shit out of the roof. Get a new metal roof when it leaks.
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11-18-2021, 03:44 PM #5879
Echoing all the above. That roof is not great, and the chimney just....wasn't flashed. Really odd, thats a huge gap.
If replacing the roof is actually on your short list, you could just spray some expanding foam in there and call it what it is. Will keep the majority of water out (which will be fine because it isn't an active leak), and last until you can re do the roof.The whole human race is de evolving; it is due to birth control, smart people use birth control, and stupid people keep pooping out more stupid babies.
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11-18-2021, 04:12 PM #5880
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11-19-2021, 08:34 AM #5881
Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice
Spray foam the underside of roof deck. It avoids all the ductwork complexity.
Spendy, I know, but a lot less bullshit to deal with…
Once you properly isolate your duct work, you will wish you just did the underside of deck…
Consider also, that with all the tomfoolery you list above, no one will ever be able to get into the attic again to deal with ceiling, hvac or lighting repair
4:12 attics are tight enough as it is
Consider doing R-39 this year & bumping it up at another time when your savings recover
Alternate hybrid system
Spray the underside of deck to R-15 min. Then attach batts to the underside of rafters to make up the remainder of R-49 under the the deck
Avoid all the duct intersections & crossovers etc
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11-19-2021, 08:46 AM #5882Banned
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There could easily be a 10x price difference between the DIY blown cellulose approach old_newguy is thinking of currently and spray-foaming the underside of the roof deck.
I'm a fan of spray foam, and ponied up to have it added to my attic this summer, but it's an extremely expensive alternative to blow-in. His case is a little different because he has ductwork in his attic and it would be ideal to have that in conditioned space, but I'm also not a big fan of the "hot roof" design.
They're great if you're roof never, ever, ever leaks even a single drop of water.
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11-19-2021, 08:47 AM #5883
What Box Cars says is what I'm familiar with. That said, we don't see much HVAC in attics. The underlying principal I'd use is to bring on mechanical components within the conditioned space.
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11-19-2021, 09:16 AM #5884
Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice
The conventional application is blow-in to whatever depth (don’t block attic vents) & duct wrap anything that sticks out.
Maybe double the R-8 duct wrap at least?
There are reasons it’s not great, but we do have a comparatively temperate climate.
The tunnel idea is the worst for your slope.
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11-19-2021, 09:15 PM #5885Registered User
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Wait... what is great if no leaks whatsoever- hot roof (?), blown insulation, or spray foam?
I'll be thinking about this as soon as I get the guts to pull the knob and tube out of my attic- it's been pretty dry up there for 5 years , but I'm in Seattle so a bit of luck enters the equation.
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11-19-2021, 10:18 PM #5886Dad core
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Just went under contract on a house with a bunch of knob and tube. Planning to get it all replaced before we move in, what do I need to watch out for choosing an electrician? In Seattle and open to recommendations.
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11-20-2021, 04:28 AM #5887Registered User
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Can't speak to Seattle, but around here, anyone available to take that on in a reasonable timeframe would probably be a second- or third-tier contractor; the better ones are booked out for months at least. So anyone who was available really quickly would be a red flag for me unless they had just gotten pushed back on a job due to other delays.
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11-20-2021, 09:04 AM #5888
Even if there is a shingle roof under, it should have the detail Evan drew up. In fact, is that not a remnant of one below the 2 bricks that have been replaced? Rusty little strip of metal, kerfed into mortar line.
On another note. Don't know the era of your house, but if you ever decide repointing is in order, a type S mortar is likely too hard if your house is built in '30s or earlier.
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11-20-2021, 09:53 AM #5889Registered User
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Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice
Yeah I wouldn’t be in a huge hurry to replace the KnT, it’s a generally solid system. Biggest threat is lacking grounds, which safety-wise can be mostly made up for with GFCI outlets. Leviton makes a slim one that fits in the tiny old metal boxes.
Yes I know a non-grounded GFCI isn’t as good as a grounded one, but personally I’d rather have an old well-tested complete system than a half-assed new one (an electrician in Seattle available immediately isn’t necessarily going to be the best one).
Electricians that redid KnT in my old house in the previous remodel left a few of the old lines in places they couldn’t access. It led to voltage trickling into my grounds, and slightly hot neutral. I hired a really good electrician to troubleshoot it and he spent 10 hours in my attic trying to figure out the problem and ended up just pulling a new wire for the entire circuit.
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11-20-2021, 09:56 AM #5890
Given that no one understands knob and tube anymore, it’s more of a hazard than a burly system
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11-20-2021, 09:58 AM #5891
Weird things happen with K and T/ no ground circuits when you try to put occ and motion sensors and the like in them.
Our doorbell ran off a transformer in the attic that became inaccessible when we added a half story. When the doorbell went out no way to fix it. Eventually they invented wireless doorbells. One of these days we should get rid of the now useless chimes hanging in the dining room.
The thermostat downstairs that runs the asbestos covered gravity furnace (that didn't even have a thermocouple for the pilot light when we bought the place) has a mercury filled tube. Should be fun if we ever need to find a replacement.
Fuck old houses. If I ever had to buy another house it would be new with all the modern energy saving features.
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11-20-2021, 10:33 AM #5892Registered User
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For me a house has always needed to be modern enough so it doesnt have the old shit in it so the oldest house I have ever owned was mid 70's or newer which had at least 100 amp service/ copper wire, copper pipes, a natural gas forced air furnace, so far no repair has been very bad/ cost much, so nothing has cost > 10k
I heard you can't get house insurance around here unless you got at least a modern 100 amp service, I also run away from shake roofs or tar & gravelLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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11-20-2021, 12:55 PM #5893
Plus age. The workmanship tended to be very good because people were generally more afraid of electricity than they are now, but at this point most k&t insulation is brittle af, and even the conductors can't stand up to much bending.
That said, anything that's inaccessible that hasn't been messed with is probably fine. But it'd be best to isolate that circuit as much as possible. Also, some k&t installations have switched neutrals.
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11-20-2021, 12:59 PM #5894
Yes, that's what it looks like. Weird how it's just shaved off. Missed that detail when I was up there.
RE: age, it's not in the county records but I've been told (by an experienced local electrician) that it was probably built in the 1920s by Romanian (based on the construction techniques). Definitely repointing the chimney in the next 1-2 years. Lots of loose brick & mortar (look out below!).The crown is broken into 2-3 parts, has moss growing on interior edges, and is, at this point, totally detached from the brick .
Thanks for the heads-up on the mortar. What should I use instead of Type S?
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11-20-2021, 01:10 PM #5895
I'd research it, but I know there's more lime in the mix for the softer brick.
I know you can have it analyzed, to tell you exactly your mix, but it may be $$$
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11-20-2021, 01:31 PM #5896
So those scored bricks are softer? Or is it just the era/techniques when they were manufactured? Also, are you saying get the old mortar analyzed or a chunk of the brick?
It may make sense to just have the top of the chimney rebuilt, depending on cost. Seems less than 100 bricks. The local chimney co quoted me $2700 on a pellet stove install (which I did myself for ~$500 after I stopped laughing) so maybe it will be too much. Worst case, I aggressively repoint next summer with some modified mortar.
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11-20-2021, 01:47 PM #5897
If they are from the 20's, probably.
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I'm not great w/ adding links n shit, but Google pre 1930 bricks and mortar.
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11-20-2021, 02:51 PM #5898
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11-21-2021, 09:40 AM #5899I drink it up
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My bathroom fans are venting into the attic. It’s obviously not a new situation, and I don’t see any obvious evidence of mold up there. I discovered this when I went to replace one of the fans. Along with an old squirrel carcass. Thoughts?
focus.
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11-21-2021, 09:49 AM #5900
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