Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[skaredshtles]

Are you trying to say that people won't pay me $20K more for my house if I stick in a $5000 stove with giant red knobs on it?

I'm saying in the current market... who the fuck knows?

[dunfree]

I mean... conventional wisdom says you will *not* get anywhere near 100% return for remodeling work. But I guess in today's market, perhaps that conventional wisdom doesn't hold...

2018 article on remodel payback:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/24/here...the%20magazine.

turning a 1br/1ba cottage into a 3br/2ba home changes things a bit

[::: :::]

Are you trying to say that people won't pay me $20K more for my house if I stick in a $5000 stove with giant red knobs on it?

Not even that…

Ask a house appraiser what they put down for the value of a high end bath room in a house
It doesn’t come close to the construction value

Ask an insurance adjuster the same question—you’ll get the same result.

Replacement value =//= construction value =//= sales value

[fatnslow]

I talked to a contractor and they gave me a $60k quote for 1 bedroom but that included a much more difficult roofline and wall to match, and more demo, plus it wouldn't be a clean match so I think he quoted me pretty high because he didn't want to do it, maybe. What I was hoping for was for someone to say, well if it's worth $290k, adding 2 bedrooms and 1 bath will make it worth roughly $400k so you should should try and get the remodel done for under $80k or something along those lines. I was wondering if people had a feel for home much value adding 2 bed and a bath would add, but good point that it's highly area/circumstance dependent. I've got a couple realtor friends in the area that I'll call.

If your realtor friends understand grade school math and are honest they'll tell you it very rarely pencils out in straight appreciation for a big remodel.

[Shredhead]

Not even that…

Ask a house appraiser what they put down for the value of a high end bath room in a house
It doesn’t come close to the construction value

Ask an insurance adjuster the same question—you’ll get the same result.

Replacement value =//= construction value =//= sales value

It takes over a year, just to get a permit in Aspen.
Then you’ll be fucking lucky to find any contractor
that will even look at your measly 50k$ bathroom remodel. Turnkey is selling at a premium.

[ötzi]

@fatnslow: But is an addition a remodel? To me they're different things. As to whether additions pay back better than remodels, I would definitely guess yes, but I don't have any data either way.

[::: :::]

@fatnslow: But is an addition a remodel? To me they're different things. As to whether additions pay back better than remodels, I would definitely guess yes, but I don't have any data either way.

additions bump the cost up for the cost of the new shell (foundations, framing, roof, ext finishes, insul, int finishes, elec/plum/hvac, etc. ) on top of any interior remodel.
remodel in place is way cheaper, but it may not account for the extent of internal re-arranging of guts -- every project is unique, esp in residential
and a small addition still has to gather the same team of subs as a major build

[mattig]

Keep the neighborhood and regional characteristics in mind too. Turning a 1k sq ft home into 2k sq ft in a neighborhood with mostly 1-1.5 sq ft homes will have less of an impact than if the neighborhood norm was 2k.

Anyway, considering material costs, this tends to make most sense if you know you're going to be there a long time and there are no viable upgrades to move into.

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[nickwm21]

Not even that…

Ask a house appraiser what they put down for the value of a high end bath room in a house
It doesn’t come close to the construction value

Ask an insurance adjuster the same question—you’ll get the same result.

Replacement value =//= construction value =//= sales value

Meeeehhh… If you have a decent insurance policy; replacement value = construction value.

Source - My wife is a construction cost consultant for insurance adjusters….

Edit: What really matters is if you told your insurance company about the bathroom remodel and adjusted your insured value accordingly….


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[::: :::]

Meeeehhh… If you have a decent insurance policy; replacement value = construction value.

Source - My wife is a construction cost consultant for insurance adjusters….

Edit: What really matters is if you told your insurance company about the bathroom remodel and adjusted your insured value accordingly….

i need your wife to do our insurance -- the "quotes" we were listed were horseshit; we had to declare our own replacement cost value to feel good about the coverage; they were sorely out of synch with building here

[Garbowski]

How bad is the bathroom? I'd be happy with what you got- let the next guy put in the flavor of the year. A 50k bathroom in Seattle would probably be subbed out to the guys from Home Depot parking lot.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Peaches....everyone wants rules of thumb. There are none. Is residential real estate, we've been confusing smart with lucky for a long time. If you sell into a hot market and the buyer likes your finishes, you'll look like a genius. If the market cools and buyers hate your wife's taste in tile, you'll take a fucking bath.

You don't just call up a GC and ask what an approximate cost for a 2bd., 1ba. remodel will cost and get an answer worth a shit. They conversation usually goes like this, "I'm looking for a bid on this job buddy!" "You mean a free estimate" "OK?" "One million dollars!" "What?" "estimate what, you need to get architect involved such that a halve at least an idea of what you are looking for, also a major driver of cost is your finish selection so email me a hypothetical of your interior and exterior finish schedule". The list never stops. The best you can do is to find a contractor that specializes in this type of work and has a couple of projects going right now. Is you can base line off something close to what you are looking at, you stand a better chance at coming close-ish on costing.

Money aside, why? The only time I huge addition makes sense is if there is something massively unique about the property like. If there are 3bd., 2ba., houses down the road, just buy one of those. Seriously. Whatever you think the headache factor is, triple it. It will be like building a house with the exception that you'll be living there and they will be design constraints.

It can be done, and it can make you lots of money. The last big addition I did, the couple walked with about $300K in equity....and a divorce. Buyer beware.

[AdironRider]

I bought a 1 bed and added a bedroom and more than got my money back. That said, I sold in a better market than I bought, but a 1 bedroom place has a very limited market. Just opening up the pool of buyers adds value.

Decide if you are going to rent or sell. A low end addition to a rental would probably pay itself back over time, just a fix and flip doubtful in today’s market. if renting I’d just add bedrooms and let them deal with a 1 bath place. If selling I’d probably do the same. Bathrooms are great for you to use but you aren’t coming close to getting the cash back at resale, definitely not if you need to add onto the house to build it.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Were you smart or lucky? What was the per sq.ft build cost? What year? What was the per sq. ft. sales price? What year?

[RootSkier]

How the fuck do I remove a fixed sash Pella window from around 1981? It is nominally a dual pane, but the inner pane is part of a removable unit, almost like a reverse storm window. But the outside pane is busted on this one and I cannot figure out what to do. There are four holes that one would think have screws that are keeping the sash stop attached but there is nothing in there? Anyone have any ideas for how to deal with this? It is filthy because we were going to do the full remodel this summer so I put this off, now we pulled the plug on that so I'd like to get this fucker fixed.

I also tried cutting the paint in the corner and gently prying to see if I could get part of the sash stop out, but there is so much spooge on both sides of the glass that everything is fucking welded together, so my thought is to remove the entire sash and bring it into a glass joint for repair.

[spanky]

The round hole in that first picture is to hold the blinds that came installed between the two panes. Classic 80s Pella. Can’t help you with removing the sash. You might have to remove the entire window.

Edit: whoops. I missed the “fixed sash” comment. Ugh.

[PeachesNCream]

So I’m hearing that people are saying you don’t get your money back from a remodel? This seems backwards to what I’m seeing everywhere. In fact my realtor friends are doing kitchen remodels right before they sell so at least in Idaho and Washington it seems like it’s worth it. Another friend did a one year remodel that cost him $100k and he walked away with $300k more than what he bought it for. Yes, market had a big part to do with that but I’d say the remodel had a bigger part, or at least half. I’m remodeling my kitchen (in a budget friendly way), it’s probably cost me $2k so far, will probably be $5k when I’m done. I’m no realtor but I bet it increased the value by $25k. Not saying this is how it goes every time but I think with good thought you can definitely make money on remodels.

As far as what’s in the neighborhood, the house next door is a 1/1, every other house in the neighborhood is a 3/2. Very family neighborhood, there’s a park and elementary school half a block away.

Also the bathroom I’d do myself. It’s an old house with weird little rooms. I’ll convert 1 of these weird little rooms into a bathroom. But it would only make sense if I add the 2 bedrooms which I would contract out.


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[Core Shot]

How the fuck do I remove a fixed sash Pella window from around 1981? It is nominally a dual pane, but the inner pane is part of a removable unit, almost like a reverse storm window. But the outside pane is busted on this one and I cannot figure out what to do. There are four holes that one would think have screws that are keeping the sash stop attached but there is nothing in there? Anyone have any ideas for how to deal with this? It is filthy because we were going to do the full remodel this summer so I put this off, now we pulled the plug on that so I'd like to get this fucker fixed.

I also tried cutting the paint in the corner and gently prying to see if I could get part of the sash stop out, but there is so much spooge on both sides of the glass that everything is fucking welded together, so my thought is to remove the entire sash and bring it into a glass joint for repair.

That’s what the call a nock apart.

Pull the whole sash. Find the nails or screws on opposite corners and remove.
Use a wood block to hammer it apart on opposite corners
Replace glass. Re nail corners. Putty and paint.

Or. Use a fein tool to cut the trim from the sash on the outside. I’m assuming it’s one piece of molded wood since you already tried to remove the outside trim stop. Which isn’t a trim stop. It’s part of the sash

[::: :::]

my 2cents

(Assuming quality) there’s no such thing as ROI on remodels/additions if you plan to sell in the next 5 yrs. If you are in a stable neighborhood, home values will catch up. Quality work (design & construction) holds value & speeds sales, but construction pricing doesn’t compare to real estate valuation as noted up thread.

IMHO RE agents have little experience with quality construction or construction market pricing and often have overly optimistic assessments of what could work regarding remodels (again assuming quality)

And a reminder that ‘up to code’, ‘code required’, or ‘code compliant’ is the lowest quality you are legally allowed to build. It isn’t a certification of quality construction. It’s the lowest bar available.

[RootSkier]

That’s what the call a nock apart.

Pull the whole sash. Find the nails or screws on opposite corners and remove.
Use a wood block to hammer it apart on opposite corners
Replace glass. Re nail corners. Putty and paint.

Or. Use a fein tool to cut the trim from the sash on the outside. I’m assuming it’s one piece of molded wood since you already tried to remove the outside trim stop. Which isn’t a trim stop. It’s part of the sash

I tried to remove the inside part of the trim stop.

And Spanky, good call with the shades. I forgot that I actually removed them when we first moved in because they were all fubar.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Peaches, an addition isn't a remodel. When you say, "Realtor friends" marinate on that for a while. From what I've seen in that industry, "easy to sell" is what they are really trying to say. They want turn key with curb appeal. Its how they make their 2pm tee time, Pino Gri party or yoga class.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but there are too many moving parts to give you an answer. Where do you live? Right now you are overpaying for labor and materials. Plus you are gonna have massive delays.

How are you gonna pay for it? It the benefit of living there part of the calculus? Doing any of the work yourself is usually a big red flag for contractors. If you've got the cheddar to play real estate investor, why do it at your primary residence? Are you planning to move out?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

How the fuck do I remove a fixed sash Pella window from around 1981? It is nominally a dual pane, but the inner pane is part of a removable unit, almost like a reverse storm window. But the outside pane is busted on this one and I cannot figure out what to do. There are four holes that one would think have screws that are keeping the sash stop attached but there is nothing in there? Anyone have any ideas for how to deal with this? It is filthy because we were going to do the full remodel this summer so I put this off, now we pulled the plug on that so I'd like to get this fucker fixed.

I also tried cutting the paint in the corner and gently prying to see if I could get part of the sash stop out, but there is so much spooge on both sides of the glass that everything is fucking welded together, so my thought is to remove the entire sash and bring it into a glass joint for repair.

You gotta remove the trim/stop on the outside, tapping a thin 1" putty knife with a hammer in between the stop and the sash material will usually separate it (yes it might ruin the edge of the putty knife). A thin flat bar can also be used. A heat gun might also be needed if you get frustrated and there's lots of paint.

[adrenalated]

Peaches -

I just remodeled a full house, from the studs out. 95% of it I did myself. I put around $50k in and will get well over $100k out of it. If I had paid someone to do it... It wouldn't have been worth it. Or if I assigned a value to my time...

Remodels and additions on existing houses are not straightforward and simple even if it seems like they should be hence everyone telling you "It Depends." Old houses have weird shit and problems to solve on jobs that seem like they'd be simple. That costs money. As mentioned the quality and cost of your finishes drastically influences the price. Nobody here knows your home and your market.

[old goat]

So when the mason demo'd the old rock around the old fireplace--manufactured steel firebox lined with firebrick--the 2x4 across the top of the firebox was badly charred. Scary. We got the stove pretty soon after we bought the place. Glad we did. A lot of the work on this house was done by the original owner, and it shows.

Old houses definitely are interesting to work on. I installed a 7 foot long cabinet on the floor--which was an inch and a half out of level over that short distance. Took me half a day once to hang a picture, because when we took the old picture down there was a hole in the wall bigger than the new picture and a light fixture above it hard-wired with lamp cord.

[fastfred]

For a hand job and a half ounce I'll tell you anything maybe even say I love you

Advice from a realtor is like asking my dog if his asshole tastes good when he's licking it a realtor doesn't know there asshole from there mouth last person to get solid advice from

Quick math from a pro like me on your addition

How much per sq ft did you purchase house for?

What is the perceived value of house today, per sq ft?

What is the construction cost in your area to add 2 bedrooms? Sq ft price? (I start at 500 sq ft)

I'm conservative when dealing w this shit speculating w big numbers will get you in big trouble a realtor will rub one out on you and do youbig numbers I tell people bad news for a living

Take the avg of purchase price sq ft and perceived sellable sq ft price subtract that from construction cost sq ft are you ahead or behind?

Then for a reality check the roi of a living space only addition will be 60% - 75% of construction costs throw that loss into your calculations

Add a bathroom to that addition or a large brand new kitchen and your roi will increase

You will never get a 100% roi when doing a hone remodel project unless it's circa 2020 or 2021

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