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  1. #1476
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    462
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Root, I know this used to be your thing, but wood flooring in a bathroom, really? How will it not be fubared when the toilet inevitably overflows?
    poop in a bucket, of course. The toilet's just for company and resale value.

  2. #1477
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    11,763
    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    Alright what say the collective. Closing on a place this Monday and wanting to do a soft remodel on the upstairs.

    The list being:
    - new flooring
    - paint
    - painting cabinets
    - new trim
    - reducing a partial wall to about 1/2 the height and (possibly) eliminating a vertical post to open up the room.

    My question is aside from hiring a contractor/engineer how else can I tell if this vertical support is actually load bearing or just aesthetic? It’s a vaulted ceiling so I would presume that the support is built into the rafters.



    Thanks for the help


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    My rule of buying a new house--brand new or previously owned--is to fix the stuff that's broken or unsafe or seriously ugly--like avocado laminate countertops--but wait on structural stuff like moving, adding, removing walls until you've lived in the house for a while. You may find that you don't mind the thing you thought you needed to change, or you may find that there's more that you want to change. I realize that it's easier to do before you move in but you might save yourself a ton of money and aggravation if you wait.
    (Actually, that's my second rule of buying a new house. First rule is--live in a new town a while before you buy, if you can. And definitely check out traffic and commute on both weekdays and weekends.)

  3. #1478
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Making the Bowl Great Again
    Posts
    12,093
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Root, I know this used to be your thing, but wood flooring in a bathroom, really? How will it not be fubared when the toilet inevitably overflows?
    1. It's cork, not wood. Cork is naturally waterproof.

    2. An overflowing toilet won't hurt a finished-in-place wood or cork floor if you clean it up right away. See e.g. kitchens everywhere.

    3. You can put down another layer of poly on top of a cork floor even when it is already pre-finished, to seal the tongue and groove.

    4. Worst-case scenario is that it is only $3 a foot.

    5. Teach the family how to stop a toilet from filling when it clogs.

    Here is what it looked like at our last house, fwiw:Attachment 309885Name:  kemp cork floor.jpg
Views: 207
Size:  61.8 KB

  4. #1479
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    11,284
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    4. Worst-case scenario is that it is only $3 a foot.
    Point taken.

  5. #1480
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Iím big fan of 1 inch square or shaped tile in bathroom. Good traction and feels good on your feet. Itís cheap too. Add heated floor if you want luxury. I have 110v floor heat but would have done 220v if I had the juice and panel.

  6. #1481
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    If you redo all the floors and can afford it hydronic would be my choice. Forced air heat is convenient but loud and dry

  7. #1482
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    That bathroom would be awesome with a sky light.

  8. #1483
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    6,140
    Bags

    Cork, LVP, LVT or something...because it is easy and thin.

    Ski Lift

    Rafters and attic does not compute. As others have said check for continuous bearing. There is no beam below the drywall plane so either you've got some type of hanger rafter design, a drop ceiling or I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Behind the base in the best place to do some investigation. Gently remove the base (cut the caulk, pry of the bottom plate not the drywall etc.) and cut out the drywall with utility knife/jabsaw/fein/oscillating tool of your choice. If you see a big stud pack of a steel column, it is structural. If you see plywood, pipes, wires or sheet metal it is a chase.

    My advice - be really systematic and calculated about your deconstruction. Save everything until you have a plan.

  9. #1484
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
    Posts
    762
    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Thanks, Foggy!



    Thanks, I figured out I couldn't use the self-leveling. Some sanding and bracing got me level, and the plywood is down. My initial reading indicated that plywood was an acceptable surface for tile, but digging deeper, I see that people aren't doing that much anymore. With everything, I'm already going to be way above the level of the hallway floor. Adding Ditra or cement board is going to take me way high. What are my other options? Some people recommend adding Keraflex to the thinset mix. Would that work? What about a painted membrane over the ply like Aquadefense?
    You could paint the entire floor with Redguard/Aquadefense. Use 2 coats and tape the seams, and it will be acceptable for tiling. That will save you 1/4" of height vs Hardie, but will be expensive.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T707A using TGR Forums mobile app
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  10. #1485
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,383
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    My rule of buying a new house--brand new or previously owned--is to fix the stuff that's broken or unsafe or seriously ugly--like avocado laminate countertops--but wait on structural stuff like moving, adding, removing walls until you've lived in the house for a while. You may find that you don't mind the thing you thought you needed to change, or you may find that there's more that you want to change. I realize that it's easier to do before you move in but you might save yourself a ton of money and aggravation if you wait.
    (Actually, that's my second rule of buying a new house. First rule is--live in a new town a while before you buy, if you can. And definitely check out traffic and commute on both weekdays and weekends.)
    Great rule #1 - moved to Spokane 1.5 years ago as a test to see if we liked it and now buying in our neighborhood! Honestly the house is in really great shape, has not been lived in since 2011 when the old lady passed away so I know some things will break/fail as we begin to use them on a more regular basis. The remodel truly is aesthetics only with the exceptions of that half wall/column/wing wall. Waiting on full reno to master bathroom until we live there for 6 mo - 1 year to see what we like/want in the house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Bags
    Ski Lift

    Rafters and attic does not compute. As others have said check for continuous bearing. There is no beam below the drywall plane so either you've got some type of hanger rafter design, a drop ceiling or I have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Behind the base in the best place to do some investigation. Gently remove the base (cut the caulk, pry of the bottom plate not the drywall etc.) and cut out the drywall with utility knife/jabsaw/fein/oscillating tool of your choice. If you see a big stud pack of a steel column, it is structural. If you see plywood, pipes, wires or sheet metal it is a chase.

    My advice - be really systematic and calculated about your deconstruction. Save everything until you have a plan.
    Sorry for the ambiguity. Attic in the area where the ceiling is lower. There is no attic where the vaulted ceiling starts. Great information on how to go about investigating what the column is comprised of.

    Again really appreciate the help here gents.

  11. #1486
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    6,140
    I'm having a hard time picturing the roof framing from the pictures. Almost always, rafters go from high to low. Beams go perpendicular to that. If it is a vent (plumbing, HVAC or water heater) you should be able to see the termination on the roof. I'm guessing the picture is the top level of the house? What is directly below the area in question?

  12. #1487
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,673
    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Why were kitchens in separate "rooms" up until 15-20 years ago.

    Sent from my SM-J737V using TGR Forums mobile app
    Because they wanted to get the fuck away from their kids arguing over what dumb TV show they wanted to watch in the living room and have some peace and quiet before they served their offspring something they would probably refuse to eat.

  13. #1488
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Making the Bowl Great Again
    Posts
    12,093
    You ain't wrong. But that's what basements are for now.

  14. #1489
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The land of Genesee Cream Ale and homemade pierogies!
    Posts
    1,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    What's the consensus on gutter screens or guards or whatever they're called? I just had my gutters replaced and I think I should probably put some covers on them since we have several mature trees that drop leaves on different parts of the roof.

    Any brands, styles, things to look out for?
    I'm not a fan.

    Reasons: They give you a false sense of 'I don't ever have to check/look at/clean out the gutters,' even more so in the case when the down spout discharge is underground or not visible (you'd only notice clogs or partial blockages if you stood outside to observe at the height of a heavy downpour, e.g., rainwater squirting out of downspout joints). In heavy downpours water rolls right over them. And worst of all after a few years they never stay aligned correctly, the reveal lines get all messed up, they bow, overlap and pop out, lessening curb appeal.

    Even with all that, they have some uses, short runs of gutter on very small sections of multi level roofs,
    Last edited by Nobody Famous; 01-09-2020 at 10:24 PM.
    ďThe best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.Ē

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  15. #1490
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    If you redo all the floors and can afford it hydronic would be my choice. Forced air heat is convenient but loud and dry
    I agree hydronic is sweet but totally unfeasible in an existing home. Were you thinking just stapling 1/2" tubing on the bottom side of the floor with no medium to hold the heat?

    Typically hydronic systems installed with basement underneath have a recessed floor trussing system that allows the hydronic tubing to be installed and then have a minimum of 2" of gypcrete poured to retain heat and give more consistent heating.

    If you were to switch from forced air to a boiler you'd be better off with copper tubing and heating registers.

    Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

  16. #1491
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340
    Quote Originally Posted by lake_effect View Post
    I agree hydronic is sweet but totally unfeasible in an existing home. Were you thinking just stapling 1/2" tubing on the bottom side of the floor with no medium to hold the heat?

    Typically hydronic systems installed with basement underneath have a recessed floor trussing system that allows the hydronic tubing to be installed and then have a minimum of 2" of gypcrete poured to retain heat and give more consistent heating.

    If you were to switch from forced air to a boiler you'd be better off with copper tubing and heating registers.
    There are retrofit systems. The subfloor comes with grooved panels for piping.

    https://www.warmboard.com/warmboard-r


  17. #1492
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    There are retrofit systems. The subfloor comes with grooved panels for piping.

    https://www.warmboard.com/warmboard-r

    Those are bad ass, have never seen that product before. I wire a decent amount of small to medium sized electric boilers so that's definitely good to know about. Thanks man

    Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

  18. #1493
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    6,140
    Warm board is pretty sweet but expensive. It has a way lower thermal mass when compared to gyp which can be good or bad. Raising the finished floor 3/4" creates it own set of challenges. I've worked on a handful of comprehensive remodels where the only source of heat is electric base and a wood stove. No propane of LNG to the house. The solutions are expensive.

  19. #1494
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by lake_effect View Post
    I agree hydronic is sweet but totally unfeasible in an existing home. Were you thinking just stapling 1/2" tubing on the bottom side of the floor with no medium to hold the heat?
    It can be done but it's not easy. We replaced large old cast iron radiators with a radiant floor. To make it feasible I traded design work with the company owner. Staple up tubing with aluminum plates. I used the foil wrapped bubble wrap for reflection and insulation along with 6" rockwool. While everything was open I foamed the sill plate. Resulted in a slight decline in oil use with more consistent heat. Wood floors hold nicely and tiled areas feel great.

    Just redid the upstairs, the house is a cape style and we added dormers to create a full master suite. We used a product called Warm Board for the subfloor, it's aluminum covered plywood with the grooves for radiant tubing. Went with an R50 roof and R30 walls and I'm able to run the floor on a setback thermostat so it runs only in the morning and evening. Recovers fine and the water is only set for 100 degrees. Aluminum spreads the heat quickly and provides consistent heat.

  20. #1495
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Warm board is pretty sweet but expensive. It has a way lower thermal mass when compared to gyp which can be good or bad. Raising the finished floor 3/4" creates it own set of challenges. I've worked on a handful of comprehensive remodels where the only source of heat is electric base and a wood stove. No propane of LNG to the house. The solutions are expensive.
    Funny all the warm board talk while I was composing my post. When we did our upstairs I used the 1 1/4" warm board which is structural. Had to use 3/8" engineered flooring so I didn't have to change the stairs.

  21. #1496
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    I’d like to hear more about boilers. I probably wouldn’t do it without a NG boiler unless solar was there for supplemental electricity.

    I sleep better with radiant heat. That in itself is priceless.

    Install of retrofit warm board base at $15 a ft?

  22. #1497
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    12,455

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    In our hood, radiant doesnít make sense financially...too much up front cost. You have to want to pay for it.

    Our replacement boiler was $12k, which was a bit of a sting 2yrs after we bought the house...but we knew it was coming. It is way more efficient now, and the gas bill is reasonable. We were able to hang on to the radiant baseboards & added underfloor when we redid the kitchen & bathrooms. We never would have done it if it werenít already in the house.

    I loooove warm slate underfoot in the winter

    And of course, thereís no synergy with a/c...so you end up having two systems if you need both heating & cooling

  23. #1498
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    15,340
    Thanks. That helps. I don't care much about up front cost to a point. Will wall radiators work as a much cheaper alternative to floors as a source of radiant heat? I looked at a house and the existing floors were really nice. Be a waste to trash them.

  24. #1499
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    12,455

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Baseboard or wall panels offer comfortable heat, tho not the same feeling as underfloor. Efficiency is good, no worries there. They are decidedly cheaper than underfloor given the labor of install. Typically they are located under windows or along a perimeter (exterior) wall.

    They are hard to locate in a kitchen because kitchens typically want to use all the wall space for cabinetry. Thatís where the underfloor is pretty great.

    I also like to add a towel heater as the bathroom heat option.

  25. #1500
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vermont
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    594
    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Install of retrofit warm board base at $15 a ft?
    It isn't cheap, that's for sure. I'd have to dig out the file and look at the scope breakdown but I'm pretty sure my builder quoted $10. Ended up at about $12 due to the complex design and the need to route out a lot of bends. Our existing framing had a lot of deviation that caused problems as well. Took some shimming to keep the floor level.

    Only extra I didn't allow was the added work they had to do when they installed the first panel wrong. Warm Board provides pretty good documentation, I sent the CAD file and they designed the panel layouts. There is a specific layout and sequence for the install. I know it was their first time using it but the plans are pretty clear and easy to follow if you actually read them.

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