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  1. #1851
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    May 2007
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    11,970
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    Open for more ridicule here. Last fall I decided to tear off the deck and replace with concrete pad. Got tired of painting the wood. I thickened the edges 12 inches thinking that would cover if I wanted to enclose as sun room. I removed all organics prior to forming. Brought in clean gravel and used water and compactor over two days prior to pouring. The area is 10x16. so being I have a bunch of free time now I decided to frame it in. Like an idiot I applied for a building permit. They say I have to go down 3ft for footing under slab. I have no intention of doing this. Wondering what choices I have? My thought is just blow off the building permit. I paid cash so no liens. Not concerned about selling later. Probably own till I go to the nursing home or turn into rental. So is it possible to have a come to jesus moment with the building department or do I just say screw it and build?
    So they are asking you to put holes in the slab down 3ft for footings? Doesn't seem too bad. Get a concrete boring bit and an auger to dig hole, drop in the sonotube and fill. Likely for freeze heaves. How thick is the slab? 4"?

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  2. #1852
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    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    3,728
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    Open for more ridicule here. Last fall I decided to tear off the deck and replace with concrete pad. Got tired of painting the wood. I thickened the edges 12 inches thinking that would cover if I wanted to enclose as sun room. I removed all organics prior to forming. Brought in clean gravel and used water and compactor over two days prior to pouring. The area is 10x16. so being I have a bunch of free time now I decided to frame it in. Like an idiot I applied for a building permit. They say I have to go down 3ft for footing under slab. I have no intention of doing this. Wondering what choices I have? My thought is just blow off the building permit. I paid cash so no liens. Not concerned about selling later. Probably own till I go to the nursing home or turn into rental. So is it possible to have a come to jesus moment with the building department or do I just say screw it and build?
    Likely a frost line requirement. Freeze/thaw cycle can move/crack your work.


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  3. #1853
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    cordova,AK
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    2,822
    I thickened slab to 12 inches at edges with rebar. Been through one normal winter no cracking. I have non frost susceptible soils. I would think a 36" deep footing would not be necessary everywhere. How do they deal with building on bedrock?

  4. #1854
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Tahoe-ish
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    822
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    I thickened slab to 12 inches at edges with rebar. Been through one normal winter no cracking. I have non frost susceptible soils. I would think a 36" deep footing would not be necessary everywhere. How do they deal with building on bedrock?
    You can argue with code and engineering requirements all you want, but you won't win. IME building depts become less reasonable the more you push back.

    Oh, and when we excavate hit rocks larger than 36" we pin to them with epoxy and use them as footers. When they are smaller we must remove them.

    As others noted, you can likely get away with building the thing without permits, but you might run into problems down the road. What you will absolutely not be able to do is obtain a permit to do work that is not up to code.

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  5. #1855
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    12,900

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Iíd defer to a SE on that, but frost heave is real
    (bedrock should be stable but the connection may be of concern if close to the surface as water could get in the interstitial space)

    The calculus is yours ó how pissed will you be if it gets warped later after all the work to put it in place

  6. #1856
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    G Falls
    Posts
    338
    I got a thickened edge slab pushed through the building Dept a couple years ago. It was a pain through. They didnít want to approve it but I kept referencing the IBC which my city has adopted. I had to follow the guidelines for a Ďfrost protected shallow foundationí to a tee and the inspectors were all over it. It was the only feasible way for me to build on my lot due to water table issues. Havenít had a single crack on any of the concrete besides one on an exterior slab that was just a standard pour and not insulated. The native soils on my site were garbage, expansive clay. Iím happy I stuck to my guns on the mono as it has worked out great and was fairly quick to form and pour. If you had insulated under your slab and documented it, perhaps your building dept would allow you to move forward but itís highly unlikely now.

  7. #1857
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
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    11,970
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    I thickened slab to 12 inches at edges with rebar. Been through one normal winter no cracking. I have non frost susceptible soils. I would think a 36" deep footing would not be necessary everywhere. How do they deal with building on bedrock?
    Like said you remove it or connect to it. My entire lot has shale. What a bitch digging the footers for the deck. Had to be done though.

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  8. #1858
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    on the banks of Fish Creek
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    2,471

  9. #1859
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,962

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Question about new to me concrete counter tops: They have a shiny, almost sticky finish on them. But after 2 months of cooking and cleaning, the shiny-ness has wiped off to a flat finish, when scrubbed hard it kind of balls up and comes off. I ordered this, https://store.concreteexchange.com/c...countertop-wax , since it was highly recommended, but it's not the same finish, more flat so doesn't blend. Any ideas how I can fix the often cleaned spots?

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  10. #1860
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    WA
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    5,860
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    Open for more ridicule here. Last fall I decided to tear off the deck and replace with concrete pad. Got tired of painting the wood. I thickened the edges 12 inches thinking that would cover if I wanted to enclose as sun room. I removed all organics prior to forming. Brought in clean gravel and used water and compactor over two days prior to pouring. The area is 10x16. so being I have a bunch of free time now I decided to frame it in. Like an idiot I applied for a building permit. They say I have to go down 3ft for footing under slab. I have no intention of doing this. Wondering what choices I have? My thought is just blow off the building permit. I paid cash so no liens. Not concerned about selling later. Probably own till I go to the nursing home or turn into rental. So is it possible to have a come to jesus moment with the building department or do I just say screw it and build?
    You could go back to them and say that you've nixed the sunroom idea and it's purely a patio slab that won't have a structure built on it. It's not impossible, but I would be surprised if you need 3 foot deep footings for a non-structural slab.

    At that point, you may not even need a permit. For example, my jurisdiction doesn't require a permit for non-structural slabs if they're smaller than 2000 square feet and not in the floodplain.
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  11. #1861
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    in the brew room
    Posts
    1,796
    someone talk me out of (or into) a basement bouldering wall. not as big a climber as I used to be but still like to dabble and wife and 2 kids (8 and 10) into it somewhat as well and wouldn't mind a little project that has no deadline. wife not exactly thrilled by the idea but think I have her blessing. biggest issue (for her) is that it's a finished basement. I've already started the planning but can't quite pull the trigger...

  12. #1862
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    11,731
    Quote Originally Posted by criscam View Post
    wife not exactly thrilled by the idea but think I have her blessing.
    *Obligatory Star Wars "It's a trap!" Meme*

    I considered it a while back. It was going to be expensive and unless your basement has exceptionally high ceilings it has to be really steep, which means it sticks way out into the room. A hangboard is a cheap and easy compromise that avoids marital strife.

    That said, you should definitely do it.

  13. #1863
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    Oct 2005
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    Tahoe-ish
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    822
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Question about new to me concrete counter tops: They have a shiny, almost sticky finish on them. But after 2 months of cooking and cleaning, the shiny-ness has wiped off to a flat finish, when scrubbed hard it kind of balls up and comes off. I ordered this, https://store.concreteexchange.com/c...countertop-wax , since it was highly recommended, but it's not the same finish, more flat so doesn't blend. Any ideas how I can fix the often cleaned spots?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    How old are the tops in total? They prob put on too much sealer. It could also be a coating type rather than an absorbing type, and it's now failing. You can try to get after it with something really harsh like lacquer thinner, but once cured they tend to be pretty resistant to solvents.

    The ultimate solution is to grind it back down to a fresh surface and start over. The short lifespan of topical sealers is the reason I use the soak in kind on the tops I pour.Name:  15870653903430.jpeg
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  14. #1864
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    How old are the tops in total? They prob put on too much sealer. It could also be a coating type rather than an absorbing type, and it's now failing. You can try to get after it with something really harsh like lacquer thinner, but once cured they tend to be pretty resistant to solvents.

    The ultimate solution is to grind it back down to a fresh surface and start over. The short lifespan of topical sealers is the reason I use the soak in kind on the tops I pour.
    I'd have guess on age. I'd say less than 3 years, maybe less than 2? I mean, I scrubbed this dry spot in less than 2 months of cleaning it though. I thought I was scrubbing off some dough from where my wife rolled tortillas but I think I was actually into this sealer.

    So any attempts to apply something and buff it in to match are probably going to fail? Any other band aid fixes? I don't really want to grind and refinish all of the countertops right now, but also don't want to leave it unprotected and end up with a bunch of stains.

  15. #1865
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Making the Bowl Great Again
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    12,239
    Any chance you can find out who built/installed them to try to figure out what they used?

  16. #1866
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    Aug 2005
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    in the brew room
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    1,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    *Obligatory Star Wars "It's a trap!" Meme*

    I considered it a while back. It was going to be expensive and unless your basement has exceptionally high ceilings it has to be really steep, which means it sticks way out into the room. A hangboard is a cheap and easy compromise that avoids marital strife.

    That said, you should definitely do it.
    yea ceilings only 8' or so. would prob have to be more traversing type problems. would do about a 20 degree slope on 2/3 of the wall. have room to traverse a hallway ceiling to another wall to make it more interesting down the road. i'd do a hangboard for myself if I don't do it but that won't really excite the kids.
    i'll be sure to tell the mrs you gave it the ok

  17. #1867
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    7,902
    someone talk me out of (or into) a basement bouldering wall.
    It may be finished, but it's still a basement. Maybe put all the holds on a plywood wall that is bolted in such a way to the existing wall so that it could be removed in the future, (with minimal damage to the existing wall). I'm thinking bolted to studs with a 1/4-1/2" spacer of some sort. Then just fill the bolt holes with spackle if you tear it all down.
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  18. #1868
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    WA
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    5,860
    What you really need is a loft with a steeply pitched vaulted ceiling.

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  19. #1869
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Any chance you can find out who built/installed them to try to figure out what they used?
    Yeah, I'll do that, we stay in touch with the previous owners. I was just curious if there was an easy and obvious solution before I bothered them.

  20. #1870
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The land of Genesee Cream Ale and homemade pierogies!
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    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by criscam View Post
    someone talk me out of (or into) a basement bouldering wall. not as big a climber as I used to be but still like to dabble and wife and 2 kids (8 and 10) into it somewhat as well and wouldn't mind a little project that has no deadline. wife not exactly thrilled by the idea but think I have her blessing. biggest issue (for her) is that it's a finished basement. I've already started the planning but can't quite pull the trigger...
    Why basement, how about an outside wall? I had been driving past this old stone house where I saw someone built a climbing wall onto the side of a garage, picture from google street view attached.

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  21. #1871
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    in the brew room
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    1,796
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    It may be finished, but it's still a basement. Maybe put all the holds on a plywood wall that is bolted in such a way to the existing wall so that it could be removed in the future, (with minimal damage to the existing wall). I'm thinking bolted to studs with a 1/4-1/2" spacer of some sort. Then just fill the bolt holes with spackle if you tear it all down.
    This is the plan for sure. 2x spacer for vertical portion. Sloped part would obviously have its own frame.


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  22. #1872
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    West Coast of the East Coast
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    6,642
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Yeah, I'll do that, we stay in touch with the previous owners. I was just curious if there was an easy and obvious solution before I bothered them.
    I would wet sand it, starting with a fairly aggressive grit to remove the sealer. Work your way up to 2000 grit, and then finish with whatever oil they recommend for concrete. I bet it would look amazing. Also, I am a bit of a masochist, so I would love this project. That said, it will be a ton of work and it would have to be done pretty quickly to avoid the ire of the wife, which is the most important part of any project.

    Edit- I got curious and looked into it. The best tutorial I found said that using a topical sealer on anything polished further than 200 grit will fail. He recommended polishing to 1500 wet, and then dry with 1500- 3000 grit. No need for sealer after that level of polish, at least that is what they said. They also mentioned tung oil being used.
    Good luck.

  23. #1873
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Tahoe-ish
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    822
    Quote Originally Posted by warthog View Post
    I would wet sand it, starting with a fairly aggressive grit to remove the sealer. Work your way up to 2000 grit, and then finish with whatever oil they recommend for concrete. I bet it would look amazing. Also, I am a bit of a masochist, so I would love this project. That said, it will be a ton of work and it would have to be done pretty quickly to avoid the ire of the wife, which is the most important part of any project.

    Edit- I got curious and looked into it. The best tutorial I found said that using a topical sealer on anything polished further than 200 grit will fail. He recommended polishing to 1500 wet, and then dry with 1500- 3000 grit. No need for sealer after that level of polish, at least that is what they said. They also mentioned tung oil being used.
    Good luck.
    IME going beyond 400 yeilds rapidly diminishing returns on that type of concrete. (Regular bagged mix, ground to show aggregate. I and some clients love it.) It just doesn't have the hardness necessary to polish to 1000 or above. Some of the formed upside down guys are using fancier mixes that can be polished much more finely.

    You'll likely have to start with 100 to make any kind of reasonable progress. I do it dry with a variable speed grinder and diamond pads--but I have a very effective shroud and a fancy HEPA dust collector. Wet will give you quicker results, but it's not practical to do inside of a finished home. If warthog is talking about doing it by hand, he must really be a glutton for punishment.


    Penetrating sealers are durable and easier to reapply. I usually use the mid grade enhancing sealer from my stone supply shop. ($60/pint may seem expensive but it goes a long way.) Either way, at this point, you likely have to start over. Topical sealers, like varnish or catalyzed lacquer, can't really be repaired without leaving a visible edge.

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  24. #1874
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post

    Penetrating sealers are durable and easier to reapply. I usually use the mid grade enhancing sealer from my stone supply shop. ($60/pint may seem expensive but it goes a long way.) Either way, at this point, you likely have to start over. Topical sealers, like varnish or catalyzed lacquer, can't really be repaired without leaving a visible edge.

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    Talked to the previous owners tonight and they used Buddy Rhodes penetrating sealer with the beeswax on top. I'm assuming it's probably just the beeswax layer I scrubbed off in that spot.

    Unlike Warthog, sanding the whole counter doesn't sound like my idea of fun.

  25. #1875
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    West Coast of the East Coast
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    6,642
    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    If warthog is talking about doing it by hand, he must really be a glutton for punishment.
    I'm stupid, not crazy. I have a Dewalt variable speed rotary and a Griotts Garage Random Orbital that I do all my buffing with.

    Yeah, not a fun project, but one you would only have to do once.

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