Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[Mustonen]

Does the ecobee need to be connected to the internet to work?

I honestly don’t know. But Google does and it says you don’t need it. I have no idea to what degree access to the weather actually impacts its operation, but I often like to assign more complexity to things than is reasonable so I’m going to go with “some.”

You won’t be able to use the sensors, either, which are cool. And you can’t connect it to the ecobee server and see cool charts and graphs. And you can’t connect it to your phone so you can tell it that you’re coming home from vacation a day early and please adjust the environs to your likings in preparation for your imminent arrival.

But who doesn’t have Wi-Fi??

[dan_pdx]

What's the best way to keep this pex from freezing? It's in an unconditioned but poorly insulated attic that seems to run about 10 degrees above outside temperatures. I got some cheap heat tape, but the installation instructions say it has to be at least 1" from anything combustible, so my initial plan of feeding it through the studs is out. I have some neoprene pipe insulation and fiberglass batt that I'll install for the time being, but in a few months when daytime highs are in the teens, I don't think that's going to cut it. Any suggestions?

The space below this is an attached garage (not heated, but stays above freezing) and a heated laundry room.

[oldnew_guy]

I honestly don’t know. But Google does and it says you don’t need it. I have no idea to what degree access to the weather actually impacts its operation, but I often like to assign more complexity to things than is reasonable so I’m going to go with “some.”

You won’t be able to use the sensors, either, which are cool. And you can’t connect it to the ecobee server and see cool charts and graphs. And you can’t connect it to your phone so you can tell it that you’re coming home from vacation a day early and please adjust the environs to your likings in preparation for your imminent arrival.

But who doesn’t have Wi-Fi??

I’m still one of those weird people willing to sacrifice some convenience for not sharing data sometimes.

[::: :::]

What's the best way to keep this pex from freezing? It's in an unconditioned but poorly insulated attic that seems to run about 10 degrees above outside temperatures. I got some

cheap heat tape, but the installation instructions say it has to be at least 1" from anything combustible, so my initial plan of feeding it through the studs is out. I have some neoprene pipe insulation and fiberglass batt that I'll install for the time being, but in a few months when daytime highs are in the teens, I don't think that's going to cut it. Any suggestions?

The space below this is an attached garage (not heated, but stays above freezing) and a heated laundry room.

not sure how much of it you have, but you could chase it with spray foam to encase it...probably min 2" all sides for the entirety of its exposure

if it's just serving exterior hose bibs, put a shut off where the supply leaves the house & manage it personallywhen the temps are low

better but way more expensive is to insulate the shell of the structure and allow the laundry room to heat the attic space and whatever internal adjacent space

[adrenalated]

I’m still one of those weird people willing to sacrifice some convenience for not sharing data sometimes.

If you're not going to connect an Ecobee (or similar) to the internet it kinda defeats the purpose of getting an Ecobee. Just get an old school standard thermostat

[Mustonen]

If you're not going to connect an Ecobee (or similar) to the internet it kinda defeats the purpose of getting an Ecobee. Just get an old school standard thermostat

Mostly agree, though I think you’d still get some benefit out of it learning how to heat your house so that it’s 68 degrees at 6:15am rather than to adjust the set point to 68 degrees at 5:30am and bounce between 71 and 66 for the next couple hours. Without some kind of smart thermostat I’d just leave the living area at a static temp with radiant heat.

[oldnew_guy]

Sort of what I figured. I have a programmable thermostat set to heat and cool the house on our normal schedule so I’ve been trying to figure out what a smart thermostat really gets me.

I’ve been thinking that a remote sensor would be nice for one room and they are pretty much giving them away for free…

[Mustonen]

Sort of what I figured. I have a programmable thermostat set to heat and cool the house on our normal schedule so I’ve been trying to figure out what a smart thermostat really gets me.

I’ve been thinking that a remote sensor would be nice for one room and they are pretty much giving them away for free…

You could put it on a local Wi-Fi network that doesn’t have access to the outside world, and then connect your phone or whatever to that network when you want to see the temp there.

I don’t know what the Dept of Homeland Security will do with access to your comfort settings, but it’s no doubt nefarious to the extreme. I don’t entirely blame you for keeping it private, but I decided to stop worrying about it long ago and haven’t looked back.

I can say that in a single zone house, having multiple sensors is nice for adjusting comfort settings for where you are. For example, I have remote sensors upstairs and I set it to adjust the temperature off of the average upstairs remote sensor at night and the downstairs sensors during the day. Made the house instantly way more livable.

[old goat]

Missed this before, but you're not too late. That project got delayed a bit, so I'm just now getting back into it. What's your take for a semi-durable finish on it? I was thinking a coat or two of tung oil and then a couple coats of satin polyurethane.

I don't see any advantage to tung oil under the polyurethane. I prefer the appearance of oil-based polyurethane but I've been having trouble with brush marks lately. The formulas keep changing for environmental reasons and I keep having to adapt my finish practices. It seems like the poly thickens as I'm applying so pour just a little into a container at a time. Or you can thin as you go but yesterday I thinned some poly with mineral spirits and it turned instantly cloudy. I've been mixing poly and mineral spirits for years and never had this happen before. It went on and dried clear. If you have the patience I think wipe on polyurethane gives the best result but it takes a lot of thin coats. I've tried rubbing out polyurethane but haven't been happy with the results.

Another option would be to use the tung oil for color--one coat would be plenty--and then water based polyurethane.

The best finish I've ever gotten was from an old fashioned varnish, but varnish dries slowly so you need a dust free environment and a lot of time. I'm not sure the varnish you can get today would work as well.

Polyurethane is as durable as you can get. (Not polycrylic, the other poly, which isn't as durable.)

[dan_pdx]

[FONT=proxima-nova]
not sure how much of it you have, but you could chase it with spray foam to encase it...probably min 2" all sides for the entirety of its exposure

if it's just serving exterior hose bibs, put a shut off where the supply leaves the house & manage it personallywhen the temps are low

better but way more expensive is to insulate the shell of the structure and allow the laundry room to heat the attic space and whatever internal adjacent space

Thanks AC! There's only about 20', so it's a manageable amount. It's not just hose bibs, there are three plumbed spaces served by this run: a utility bathroom, the laundry room, and a DADU. The laundry room has an on-demand hot water heater that serves the other two spaces. Spray foam is definitely quick, but I'm a little hesitant to permanently cover things up like that. What do you think about a middle ground of moving the pex forward, clear of the studs, and building an insulated bay around it? That could be open to the conditioned areas and would be an easier lift than insulating the whole attic, which would be a cluster. The ADU and utility area are additions to a 100-year old garage and the framing in the attic is nutso.

[dan_pdx]

Sort of what I figured. I have a programmable thermostat set to heat and cool the house on our normal schedule so I’ve been trying to figure out what a smart thermostat really gets me.

I’ve been thinking that a remote sensor would be nice for one room and they are pretty much giving them away for free…

FWIW, people have definitely had their Nests die on them during cold weather due to bad software updates, and there has been lots of talk that they're hackable, but I haven't actually seen any news of successful attacks.

[oldnew_guy]

Thanks AC! There's only about 20', so it's a manageable amount. It's not just hose bibs, there are three plumbed spaces served by this run: a utility bathroom, the laundry room, and a DADU. The laundry room has an on-demand hot water heater that serves the other two spaces. Spray foam is definitely quick, but I'm a little hesitant to permanently cover things up like that. What do you think about a middle ground of moving the pex forward, clear of the studs, and building an insulated bay around it? That could be open to the conditioned areas and would be an easier lift than insulating the whole attic, which would be a cluster. The ADU and utility area are additions to a 100-year old garage and the framing in the attic is nutso.

2 inch rigid foam, some spray foam and foil tape is pretty easy to work with if you are going to build a box around it. Probably don’t even need to move it?

[zion zig zag]

Ecobee vs Nest: The internet says that the Ecobee can be controlled via it's own app vs the Nest needs to operate through Google Home. I lean towards the Ecobee for that reason alone. The learning aspect may come into play at some point in the future, but for now we pretty much turn it up when we arrive and down when we leave and don't touch it in between.

[tuco]

Siding question - our house was built around 1950, is brick, with no insulation in the outside walls. The brick color is not looking great, unlike many nice brick houses found in the Midwest or out east, IMO. So I want to paint the brick at the minimum, or see what my options are for siding for looks and insulation. Any help is appreciated. I live in 100+ weather and also 20-30 degree weahter for winter here in Utah, low humidity of course.

Is there any other options to insulate the outside besides vinyl with EPS? Because I don't like the vinyl look. Wondering about any insulating siding, but also specifically board and batton because I like how it can look.

Dumb question but what is the siding called that looks like stucco but is perfectly smooth, almost like plaster applied, then painted any color? Or is it just stucco smoothed out by a pro? Is this easy to apply to brick? Presuming there is no insulation benefits in it - and that's fine, just interested in the nice clean look and how much it would cost.

Go EIFS(stucco over EPS)
Stucco comes in differing textures

[zion zig zag]

Go EIFS(stucco over EPS)
Stucco comes in differing textures

Can you always see the seams on that after a few years? Or only when its been done poorly?

[Supermoon]

Ecobee vs Nest: The internet says that the Ecobee can be controlled via it's own app vs the Nest needs to operate through Google Home. I lean towards the Ecobee for that reason alone. The learning aspect may come into play at some point in the future, but for now we pretty much turn it up when we arrive and down when we leave and don't touch it in between.

There is a stand-alone Nest app I use for my Nest, fwiw. I basically gave up on the learning part of it and just use the app to make the schedule I want. Much easier than doing it through the unit and it’s nice to check on the house temp when away

[old goat]

Thanks AC! There's only about 20', so it's a manageable amount. It's not just hose bibs, there are three plumbed spaces served by this run: a utility bathroom, the laundry room, and a DADU. The laundry room has an on-demand hot water heater that serves the other two spaces. Spray foam is definitely quick, but I'm a little hesitant to permanently cover things up like that. What do you think about a middle ground of moving the pex forward, clear of the studs, and building an insulated bay around it? That could be open to the conditioned areas and would be an easier lift than insulating the whole attic, which would be a cluster. The ADU and utility area are additions to a 100-year old garage and the framing in the attic is nutso.

What's wrong with standard split tube pipe insulation? Available in some pretty impressive R values. Go to your local Ferguson plumbing, ask what thickness they recommend for your situation. I've found the people who work there pretty knowledgeable, at least they are in Truckee, and they're right across from Full Belly Deli, which is an added extra.

[Flounder]

Can you always see the seams on that after a few years? Or only when its been done poorly?

Only when it’s been done poorly but with EIFS it’s easy to do it poorly. I spent a whole summer in college drawing details for the Sto EIFS systems install guide. There are a lot of specific conditions that have to done correctly or it will fail quickly.

[dan_pdx]

What's wrong with standard split tube pipe insulation? Available in some pretty impressive R values. Go to your local Ferguson plumbing, ask what thickness they recommend for your situation. I've found the people who work there pretty knowledgeable, at least they are in Truckee, and they're right across from Full Belly Deli, which is an added extra.

Last winter Spokane had a stretch of a week or so with high temps in the low teens F. I didn't think that standard neoprene pipe insulation would do the trick for temps like that - there will be gaps at the studs too.

[toast2266]

I don't see any advantage to tung oil under the polyurethane. I prefer the appearance of oil-based polyurethane but I've been having trouble with brush marks lately. The formulas keep changing for environmental reasons and I keep having to adapt my finish practices. It seems like the poly thickens as I'm applying so pour just a little into a container at a time. Or you can thin as you go but yesterday I thinned some poly with mineral spirits and it turned instantly cloudy. I've been mixing poly and mineral spirits for years and never had this happen before. It went on and dried clear. If you have the patience I think wipe on polyurethane gives the best result but it takes a lot of thin coats. I've tried rubbing out polyurethane but haven't been happy with the results.

Another option would be to use the tung oil for color--one coat would be plenty--and then water based polyurethane.

The best finish I've ever gotten was from an old fashioned varnish, but varnish dries slowly so you need a dust free environment and a lot of time. I'm not sure the varnish you can get today would work as well.

Polyurethane is as durable as you can get. (Not polycrylic, the other poly, which isn't as durable.)

Awesome, thanks. That's all very helpful. I'll have some scrap that'll get trimmed off the edges, so maybe I'll do a couple test samples with tung vs straight poly. Probably won't tell me much about long term color, but I'll see if anything looks clearly superior in the short term.

[dunfree]

You can buy old fashioned varnish, it’s just expensive

problem of poly over tung would be waiting for the tung to dry (or if it’s a minwax tung that’s mostly solvent with some linseed, getting that to dry)

[::: :::]

Last winter Spokane had a stretch of a week or so with high temps in the low teens F. I didn't think that standard neoprene pipe insulation would do the trick for temps like that - there will be gaps at the studs too.

At worst, it's the cheapest option & totally undo-able
(Yes, the problem with pipe insul is that it isn't a complete envelope)

PEX can expand to ridiculous sizes when lines freeze without failing. It's the intersections & terminal fixtures that can get damaged in freeze conditions. That and water stops flowing.

[::: :::]

Siding question - our house was built around 1950, is brick, with no insulation in the outside walls. The brick color is not looking great, unlike many nice brick houses found in the Midwest or out east, IMO. So I want to paint the brick at the minimum, or see what my options are for siding for looks and insulation. Any help is appreciated. I live in 100+ weather and also 20-30 degree weahter for winter here in Utah, low humidity of course.

Is there any other options to insulate the outside besides vinyl with EPS? Because I don't like the vinyl look. Wondering about any insulating siding, but also specifically board and batton because I like how it can look.

Dumb question but what is the siding called that looks like stucco but is perfectly smooth, almost like plaster applied, then painted any color? Or is it just stucco smoothed out by a pro? Is this easy to apply to brick? Presuming there is no insulation benefits in it - and that's fine, just interested in the nice clean look and how much it would cost.

board & batten could be smooth fiber cement board (4x8 shts) w/ 1x2 battens applied every 12"...there would be a horizontal z flashing detail at every 8' up taller walls
this could be installed over rigid insulation w/ furring strips fastened thru to structure

paints easily and shouldn't be too pricy

[Djongo Unchained]

Muted - I recently had to refurbish a board and batten residence. Used Roseburg Breckenridge cedar ply for the board and ripped cedar planks to 2 1/2" battens. Can be had in lengths beyond 8'. Paints/stains beautifully.

In the past I've done what is stated above.
Attach furring strips to existing field. Fill the depth with blueboard, then board and batten to strips. Pretty straightforward although securing furring to brick would be a bit more labor intensive than the studs I was going into.

[old goat]

Last winter Spokane had a stretch of a week or so with high temps in the low teens F. I didn't think that standard neoprene pipe insulation would do the trick for temps like that - there will be gaps at the studs too.

I'm no expert, obviously, but it seems like 1 in thick pipe foam (R7), with the slits sealed, with foam injected where the pipes go through the studs, in a partially insulated attic above heated space in an occupied house would do the trick.

Awesome, thanks. That's all very helpful. I'll have some scrap that'll get trimmed off the edges, so maybe I'll do a couple test samples with tung vs straight poly. Probably won't tell me much about long term color, but I'll see if anything looks clearly superior in the short term.

If you like the color of unfinished cherry use water based poly. If you like the color of the cherry after it's been oiled or been given an oil-based finish use spar polyurethane, which blocks the UV that darkens the cherry. Personally I let it darken.