Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[Skistack]

You’re smarter than me. We did have another bathroom, but I had to share it with my wife and [emoji638] teenage daughters for several weeks. Not ideal.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[XXX-er]

I would like to to do the bathroom in my suite and then I jack the rent up to pay for it but I gotta wait till the tennants who have been there 12- 13 yrs to move out but no rush eh



Dealing with a leaking shower can be a real hassle so I think a one piece pan that will never leak is the best idea

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

fucking houses, man...

[dan_pdx]

fucking houses, man...

No kidding. As soon as we hit the mega jillions, I'm going to hire a property manager for my house and start taking weekends off from house maintenance

[Foggy_Goggles]

There is no reason a tiled shower floor can't last 30years with modern materials, technique and good craftmanship. And mud deck is outdated. Many dudes still use it but it is much harder to do correctly and much more labor intensive. I use the custom CNDd tile ready pans from these dudes https://shower-concepts.com/

Yes, Schluter has a good system and good products but they are really expensive and not unique anymore.

Also, you can do large format or even slabs on shower floors now. I've got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price. There are linear drains that are really easy to waterproof these days.

[skaredshtles]

Finally got my roof replaced after a couple hail storms two summers back. We upgraded from shiiitay 3-tab asphalt to stone-coated steel. New skylights as well. Homeowner's insurance went down 40% immediately.

And that is before the "Impact Resistant Roof" discount - so perhaps it'll be 50% reduction once all is said and done.

It's rare to win in the homeownership game, but I'll take this one. [emoji16]

[Foggy_Goggles]

<p>
There is no reason a tiled shower floor can&#39;t last 30years with modern materials, technique and good craftmanship. And mud deck is outdated. Many dudes still use it but it is much harder to do correctly and much more labor intensive. I use the custom CNDd tile ready pans from these dudes https://shower-concepts.com/ Yes, Schluter has a good system and good products but they are really expensive and not unique anymore. Also, you can do large format or even slabs on shower floors now. I&#39;ve got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price. There are linear drains that are really easy to waterproof these days.</p>

[dan_pdx]

There is no reason a tiled shower floor can't last 30years with modern materials, technique and good craftmanship. And mud deck is outdated. Many dudes still use it but it is much harder to do correctly and much more labor intensive. I use the custom CNDd tile ready pans from these dudes https://shower-concepts.com/

Yes, Schluter has a good system and good products but they are really expensive and not unique anymore.

Also, you can do large format or even slabs on shower floors now. I've got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price. There are linear drains that are really easy to waterproof these days.

Thanks Foggy! We're working with an experienced and well-reviewed design/build contractor so I've been kind of surprised at some of the conversations we've had. Like the only options they gave for the shower floor were an acrylic pan and tile over mud bed. When your subs do a slab floor, is it literally a quartz slab over a pre-made shower pan? That seems like it would last a million years.

LMK if your Ukrainian subs want to visit Portland.

[Dantheman]

fucking houses, man...

If I could do it all over again (and very well may in the not too distant future) I'd go townhouse with a garage so I at least don't have to deal with all the exterior shit.

I've got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price.

Care to define "fair?" I recently got quoted $12k to replace a tiny little stall shower with basic builder grade shit. Definitely did a double take.

[dan_pdx]

Care to define "fair?" I recently got quoted $12k to replace a tiny little stall shower with basic builder grade shit. Definitely did a double take.

We got two quotes from well reviewed design build contractors in Portland for a gut job on a tiny bathroom (about sixty square feet) and they both said 60k as the base, up from there depending on how many bells and whistles we add.

Meanwhile, Google tells me that people are getting their whole bathrooms redone for 15K in Portland. Whatever

[climberevan]

60k seems high, but what do I know? Shit's crazy

Your contractor will have a preferred method, and many old ones still haven't realized that a mud bed with liner is way outdated. I would expect dedicated tile contractors to have kept up with the times, but the "I've been doing it this way for 30 years!" crowd is ever present.

Re: grout and floor ideas. There are amazing epoxy and other high tech grouts these days that are leagues ahead of what you're likely used to in terms of stain resistance and durability. Personally, I like a floor with smaller tiles because I like a more gentle slope rather than the sharper angles that end up being required when you use bigger slabs in a fairly small shower. For walls, a large format, tile or even a slab could be a good option if you like that look.

Whatever you do, don't do a shower without a door. It's a current trend that needs to die and is a real disservice to homeowners.

While I prefer a Schluter type system or a one-piece shower pan like tile redi, the old school mud bed can be fine. If you push your contractor to do something they're not comfortable with, it's possible that they will screw it up. Schluter stuff is not hard to work with, but you do have to follow the directions carefully and do everything exactly as they recommend for the warranty to be honored. So, either find someone who has kept up with the modern changes in material and methods, or live with the antiquated ones you've already found.

[climberevan]

Oh, and linear drains. They can work, but definitely introduce another failure mode into this overall system. If you're not really in love with the idea of it, I would skip it personally. Pay attention to little details like what grate you want on your normal drain and which direction you want the slats in it to face after it's installed. There is little that it's more annoying than seeing a $20,000 shower installed with the grate either not centered in the tiles properly or with it slightly off angle.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Evan knows what is up. "My shower is cold" "No, your water is hot AF...You thought it was cool to have a 200sq. ft bath with a curbless rain shower with no glass. I can price a fireplace and a heated towel bar in here if you want. I'd say $50kmin".

A couple of things. Firstly, all the prefab options are gonna be for your standard wall framing sizes. I'm almost always doing a custom size that that won't work. Drain location is one of the variables to consider.

Dan, if your $12k is a turn key shower remodel, that's a fair price. I would charge more. Pencil out something like $1k/man day + materials +30%+management fee+profit and overhead and let me know what is "should" be.

My Ukranians set 2 quartz slab walls, a large format quartz shower floor and curb for $5k. I did the pan, backer and all the waterproofing.

[dan_pdx]

Thanks for the feedback on shower doors, our contractor said the same thing and we're going with a glass wall+glass door. I did catch maybe a whiff of "we've always done tile over a mud bed," but the contractor isn't that old and crusty, probably not far off my age...oh, fuck, waitaminit

[Foggy_Goggles]

Mud deck is not inherently wrong or bad. I just see no benefit. And they fail slowly which is a big problem for me as a contractor. If its gonna leak, I want that to happen now. Here is the process through waterproofing. You still have to put your muddeck on top and the tile backer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpE1A6ogUNI

The inside corners create some challenges for having a good tile plane (the Denshield goes over). The outside/curb corner is failure prone. And forming the curb is a dick sandwich.

[::: :::]

We got two quotes from well reviewed design build contractors in Portland for a gut job on a tiny bathroom (about sixty square feet) and they both said 60k as the base, up from there depending on how many bells and whistles we add. Meanwhile, Google tells me that people are getting their whole bathrooms redone for 15K in Portland. Whatever

no one's doing whole bathrooms for 15k with any level of quality you'd expect in a private home

60k sounds more realistic & likely on the low end tbh

if it makes you feel any better, i just got an estimate to provide a flat deck +/- 12' x 20' over a slightly sloped grade for $28-35k, range depending on footing type (conc in sonotube vs ground screw). Just footings, framing & weather resistant decking! No guard rails, no permit reqd, no elec, no plum, no ceiling, no roofing, no windows or doors, no tile, etc etc

[dan_pdx]

no one's doing whole bathrooms for 15k with any level of quality you'd expect in a private home

60k sounds more realistic & likely on the low end tbh

if it makes you feel any better, i just got an estimate to provide a flat deck +/- 12' x 20' over a slightly sloped grade for $28-35k, range depending on footing type (conc in sonotube vs ground screw). Just footings, framing & weather resistant decking! No guard rails, no permit reqd, no elec, no plum, no ceiling, no roofing, no windows or doors, no tile, etc etc

Hell, I'll come over and knock that out for you for $20k, just let me know when. Seriously though, that seems crazy expensive

Thanks for weighing in on cost, I was hoping you would pop in. Makes me feel better that we're not paying unreasonably high costs, just regular high costs

[::: :::]

Hell, I'll come over and knock that out for you for $20k, just let me know when. Seriously though, that seems crazy expensive Thanks for weighing in on cost, I was hoping you would pop in. Makes me feel better that we're not paying unreasonably high costs, just regular high costs

yeah, it's crazy...a fucking flat platform...! the minor slope means it needs real footings, not just pier blocks, but beyond that it's pretty straightforward
my alternative is doing it myself, and while i'm totally capable, it's time that i could be billable at something i'm better skilled at
or maybe just do a compacted gravel pad inside some PT 6x6's nailed into the dirt with rebar in that location, but that's not particularly nice looking

[Foggy_Goggles]

Boom, and there is the rub. And that's why you want wealthy customers or said another way I'm looking for people that value my time, experience and skills the way they value theirs.

I like to play a game called "how much should it cost and why". Generally, people have no idea. If they do, they tend to underestimate overhead and material costs. They tend to either think that jobs are way more profitable than they are or they have no clue and they are basically say, "I wish it was cheaper" or " I can't afford that". All of which is totally cool but it don't mean you get it on sale.

[spanky]

Also, you can do large format or even slabs on shower floors now. I've got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price. There are linear drains that are really easy to waterproof these days.

Hey Foggy, I’m curious about the large format or slab for a shower floor. I was under the impression that smaller tiles on the floor were advantageous for being more “non-slip”. How do you solve for the slipperiness of a single slab?

[Foggy_Goggles]

Textured finish on the slab of tile.

[liv2ski]

While we are on the shower topic, I have a rental that was built in the mid-70s and the shower really needs a refresh. It is not large maybe 4.5 ft wide by 3.5 ft deep. Somewhere in that approximate range. I was talking to my daughter about her tile guy and she said "well you're going to tear out all the plumbing right" and I asked her why would I replace the plumbing in a second story bathroom and try and replace it all the way down to the tie in in the slab and she told me I need to. Is she for real?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

[nickwm21]

Hey Foggy, I’m curious about the large format or slab for a shower floor. I was under the impression that smaller tiles on the floor were advantageous for being more “non-slip”. How do you solve for the slipperiness of a single slab?

The main issue with large tiles for a shower floor is slope to drain. You need a quality tile setter and the correct geometry of drain / shower / layout to make it not look like a mistake…

While we are on the shower topic, I have a rental that was built in the mid-70s and the shower really needs a refresh. It is not large maybe 4.5 ft wide by 3.5 ft deep. Somewhere in that approximate range. I was talking to my daughter about her tile guy and she said "well you're going to tear out all the plumbing right" and I asked her why would I replace the plumbing in a second story bathroom and try and replace it all the way down to the tie in in the slab and she told me I need to. Is she for real?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk

No - although changing the mixing valve would need some minor plumbing work. However the wall would be open so if you have shit material/quality or want to change head height or whatever, it’s there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XXX-er]

In my main tub/ shower the mixer valve is on the outside wall of the house so if it had a problem the tile would need to be taken out whereas if the valve was in the back tub/ shower wall the valve could be acessed by cutting out some DW in the bathroom closet with no tile needing to be taken up, why didnt they think of this 50 yrs ago ? actulay if that valve failed I would just put the new one in that back wall

[liv2ski]

Thanks Nick, turns out she was confused and thinking of a different property we own that is single story on a raised foundation.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G (2022) using Tapatalk