Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[mcski]

Our Tahoe street has been repaved a couple of times but I know the conservatory just located a marker w their detector recently so you can prob find it if you can borrow a metal detector

[GoldMember]

Has anywhere here painted their own house? I'm talking about a two story, pretty large house. My wife seems to think it would be doable, but I think it would take forever with way too much danger involved being up on a ladder or on the roof. Also any advice on paint versus solid stain?

We got a couple painting estimates and they're around $25k. That's why the DIY is sounding appealing in comparison.

Not sure what you do for a living but would you want a painter doing it for you? You do you, let them do them. It's worth it, especially for a two-story. High ladders ain't no joke, especially trying to paint, reaching out too far to the side, having the paint and roller/sprayer/trim brush to deal with. $25k may be a bit much, dunno but get a couple other reputable bids and realize there's a good reason they're getting $25k for what they do. I know you're a smart guy so don't show me you're not by getting yourself maimed because you want to maybe save a few buck.

[climberevan]

∆∆∆ I'm a contractor and have several extension ladders, including a 40 footer. I work on my own cars, weld, etc.

I hired a painter to do my own house. That shit is no fun, and doing a decent Jon is harder than it looks.

$25k sounds like a lot, but we have minimal info on your house. Maybe it needs ton of prep and has shrubs all around it. Maybe it's 60 feet high, etc. Your suggestion of stain indicates that it is currently unpainted wood, which will definitely require an ungodly amount of sanding if it's been neglected at all.

[XXX-er]

Has anywhere here painted their own house? I'm talking about a two story, pretty large house. My wife seems to think it would be doable, but I think it would take forever with way too much danger involved being up on a ladder or on the roof. Also any advice on paint versus solid stain?

We got a couple painting estimates and they're around, $25k. That's why thm sounding appealing in comparison.

yeah I did an ex-GF's 2 storey house and the decorative lower siding on a couple of my own

Due to the marital issues the Ex GF had defered maintenance way the fuck to the point it was a huge problem, the house was sided with that hardy board siding which is basicly cardboard with a really good paint but if you wait till the paint is fucked you are fucked or in this case ... I was fucked. So the siding on the narth side of the house had not weathered and it was easy to paint but the weathered side needed sanding and many coats of the best quality paint super high quality exteriour paint, so the narth side of GF's house was super easy but sanding down the deffered maintenance side was hell cuz you got 4 times as much prep to get all the flaking paint off and then primer and a couple of coats

At this point I'm older / smarter so i don't wana paint a house even tho I have and could, its a lot of time effort & $$ so i bought this house from a painter whom i drink beer with on a regular basis, the Deaner did it last time so I'm probbaly gona get buddy to spray it again BEFORE the paint gets all fucked up, BTW IME with 2 houses the preffered out side building envelope from a maintenance perspective IS aluminium siding which might be cheesy to a bunch of fucking dentist but IME is super easy to deal with

something to think about is instead of painting IS upgrading the siding and the windows to some thing low maintenance that does not need painting ??

[old goat]

highangle is the one to weigh in here.

Highly unlikely a mag nail survives a milling operation. In my experience it doesn’t matter if it is magnetized, they should be able to find it by bearing and distance. It’s just easier to find if it is magnetized assuming you are using a metal detector. It would be super obvious if it was new.

Depending on who did it, they might have a record of setting a mag nail when they did the street project. They get set for all kinds of reasons (offsets for pipe line and grade for example). It might be worth contacting the relevant municipality to see if they have records.

If you are actually concerned then you should hire your own surveyor and get a lawyer, which you are doing.


Edit - I would also add that typically when a surveyor is hired to mark property boundaries they usually leave lathe, flagging and paint everywhere. So if he found a mag nail then it would normally be circled with paint unless there is some weird rule in CA about marking stuff like that.

If they overlaid the street it’s totally plausible it’s under 2-3 inches of new ACP. If they did this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=In_miKg7weI

It seems unlikely a magnail would survive.

This guy left a green dot where he said the nail is. Nothing visible on the surface. He left 3 green lathes without any info or numbers on them along what he says is the property line. No new monument.
When they do our residential streets they just mill superficially and apply a slurry seal.
In California there is a doctrine of agreed boundary, which doesn't have to be written. If the boundary is uncertain and the neighbors agree then that's the boundary, even if a survey later says otherwise--given the uncertainty of surveying in old residential neighborhoods. That agreed boundary is binding on later owners. Of course, like anything else, someone can always argue against it--the original neighbors are long dead--so it would be nice if we could discredit the boundary line survey. If we do have to get our own survey I'm sure they would look for the nail. (I assume you need a detector that senses the magnetic field--not just a metal detector, because the latter could pick up any metal in the street, no?)

[Djongo Unchained]

As a Painter, I'd agree with almost everything they said.

It's already a physically taxing trade and experience with adapting to whatever is thrown at you can be key.
It can be as boring as watching paint dry too. That's when ya turn the music up.

The best points were to go over every inch of what you expect from the prep and application technique; and be very specific about material choice. See the empties if you worry about being scammed. That's rare tho.

The best painters do an A quality job in short time. You know they are as efficient as possible. Focused and on a schedule.

Exteriors like Hardie siding or stucco are easier by far. Quick easy money from prep to finish. Wood surfaces open you up to a variety of options. That's where the trouble and costs show up.

Some pics maybe?

Ladder work is like yoga all day.

[liv2ski]

I guess seattle has much rougher weather than PDX....but at $25K I'd be thinking about painting myself too....but then it would look like I painted it myself! I am scratching my head at those two quotes.

The part I don't like is that the home is 2 story. I have painted a few of our properties and my kids homes and the one that was two stories on just one side was a mofo up on a ladder. Sounds like a lot of money, but it likely is because it is a hard job.

[jm2e]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think waiting another year or two might bring that $25k number down a bit?
In a world where houses are selling for 10% over asking price, tradesmen won’t take a job unless it’s a goldmine, 2x4s cost $8 and a tank of gas will set you back a Beni …. I’m kinda holding out for this insanity to cool off.


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[EWG]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think waiting another year or two might bring that $25k number down a bit?
In a world where houses are selling for 10% over asking price, tradesmen won’t take a job unless it’s a goldmine, 2x4s cost $8 and a tank of gas will set you back a Beni …. I’m kinda holding out for this insanity to cool off.


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Very true. While we have a tendency to say that once prices go up they don’t come back down, I think these are unusual times. I would expect the price to fall once tradesfolk have fewer then 372 jobs backed up in the que.

I have painted my own house twice, both with a buddy who is a painting contractor, both when I was in my late 20s or early 30s. Both with professional equipment. It is hard work, and the difference between the quality of my buddy’s work and mine was dramatic, but I saved thousands of dollars. The costs of painting are mostly labor.

And actually I guess I helped my dad paint our house when I was like 10. Found memory for sure. For me. Likely not for him.

[nickwm21]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think waiting another year or two might bring that $25k number down a bit?
In a world where houses are selling for 10% over asking price, tradesmen won’t take a job unless it’s a goldmine, 2x4s cost $8 and a tank of gas will set you back a Beni …. I’m kinda holding out for this insanity to cool off.


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No. I would not bet on that. It would take another 2008 recession or to drop prices considerably.

- We have a housing shortage that will take a decade or two to fix
- We have a skilled labor shortage that will take generations to fix.

Compare a construction cost index chart to any of those things you noted (oil, RE, lumber) and you’ll see what I mean….




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[old_newguy]

This guy left a green dot where he said the nail is. Nothing visible on the surface. He left 3 green lathes without any info or numbers on them along what he says is the property line. No new monument.
When they do our residential streets they just mill superficially and apply a slurry seal.
In California there is a doctrine of agreed boundary, which doesn't have to be written. If the boundary is uncertain and the neighbors agree then that's the boundary, even if a survey later says otherwise--given the uncertainty of surveying in old residential neighborhoods. That agreed boundary is binding on later owners. Of course, like anything else, someone can always argue against it--the original neighbors are long dead--so it would be nice if we could discredit the boundary line survey. If we do have to get our own survey I'm sure they would look for the nail. (I assume you need a detector that senses the magnetic field--not just a metal detector, because the latter could pick up any metal in the street, no?)

I guess it’s plausible that there is a nail left in your case. If it’s actually there it should be something that could be recovered. It would also match bearing and distance from other points.

I don’t know if there is a special magnail detector, we usually just found them with a regular detector or our eyes.

I’m not a surveyor, but there should be some math involved in saying that nail is a property corner, not just “I found it”. People put magnails everywhere for all kinds of reasons.

Seems odd to me that the rest of the property corners wouldn’t be flagged, but maybe that’s not what the surveyor was asked to do.

Good luck, sounds like you have the right people involved to investigate.

[californiagrown]

I guess it’s plausible that there is a nail left in your case. If it’s actually there it should be something that could be recovered. It would also match bearing and distance from other points.

I don’t know if there is a special magnail detector, we usually just found them with a regular detector or our eyes.

I’m not a surveyor, but there should be some math involved in saying that nail is a property corner, not just “I found it”. People put magnails everywhere for all kinds of reasons.

Seems odd to me that the rest of the property corners wouldn’t be flagged, but maybe that’s not what the surveyor was asked to do.

Good luck, sounds like you have the right people involved to investigate.

It just seems crazy to me that they would hire a lawyer to determine if they need to get a survey crew out there. Its like paying $5k to determine if they need to spend $2k (probably less). Order of operations, in my mind, should be to get the survey done, and if it contradicts the neighbors survey (could be for a variety of nefarious or legitimate reasons) then you get the lawyer involved.

[old_newguy]

It just seems crazy to me that they would hire a lawyer to determine if they need to get a survey crew out there. Its like paying $5k to determine if they need to spend $2k (probably less). Order of operations, in my mind, should be to get the survey done, and if it contradicts the neighbors survey (could be for a variety of nefarious or legitimate reasons) then you get the lawyer involved.

Agreed, but reading between the lines it sounds like there might be more going on here than just a boundary dispute.

[fastfred]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think waiting another year or two might bring that $25k number down a bit?
In a world where houses are selling for 10% over asking price, tradesmen won’t take a job unless it’s a goldmine, 2x4s cost $8 and a tank of gas will set you back a Beni …. I’m kinda holding out for this insanity to cool off.


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no

wages will only go up
people who carry themselves in a professional manner and are competent and skilled at what they do know where they stand
sure if the doors come off the wagon and people are standing around doing nothing one can pray that everyone will lower their wages
but instead what will happen is millions more will drop out of the trades and find "other work"
once that happens there will be less skilled people than there is now and we are in a serious shortage of skilled labor since everyone wants to goto college and get a cushy job instead of learnign how to do somthing with their hands you can't even find mechanics to work on a car anymore

I mean you can find chuck and a truck with his cousin and brother who are willing to do anythign and everything so they don't have to pay taxes or be too insured they will still be floating around willing to work a few weeks here and there and promise you a good deal thats never going away

but those running legit business will throw in the towel insurance costs and overhead are only getting worse

[XXX-er]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think waiting another year or two might bring that $25k number down a bit?
In a world where houses are selling for 10% over asking price, tradesmen won’t take a job unless it’s a goldmine, 2x4s cost $8 and a tank of gas will set you back a Beni …. I’m kinda holding out for this insanity to cool off.

you are just deffering the maintenance even longer and it will be more fuckerd when you do

[nickwm21]

Thanks for the info about the magnail. Lawyers are already involved unfortunately. We have reason to believe the recent boundary line survey that claimed to find the 2005 magnail was fake--the street has been repaved since then. We have not had the line resurveyed; that will be up to our attorney to decide. In our 1930's neighborhood there are almost no remaining original survey markers. Surveys in the neighborhood usually involve multiple streets and go to about $10,000 and can vary by many feet on the same property. We and the neighbors agreed on the boundary when we moved in 40 years ago. 3 owners later and the latest neighbors want to move the boundary.

Fake surveys are not unprecedented in California. Apparently this part of the Sierra was surveyed from a Truckee hotel room. This came up when the boundary between the Granite Chief Wilderness and the White Wolf property on the backside of Olympic Valley became an issue for people opposing the Olympic--Alpine Meadows boundary. No one could find the physical landmarks described in the surveys.

A single survey point without any reference information (coordinates, cut sheet, identification number, etc) is essentially useless. Sounds like some bullshit scare tactic.

I think your impression that a professional survey being possibly off by feet and costing $10k is a stretch.
- IME two different surveyors will never find the exact same point. If you talk to surveyor A, surveyor B will always be “off.” Environmental conditions, equipment tolerances, etc. Plus there is some professionalism/culture factor of each of them finding the exact point. BUT they will only be off each other by say 0.03’, which is a mile in survey speak but only 3/8” for the rest of us…
- An expensive 2 man survey crew will cost $250 an hour + office time.

GPS survey technology is pretty good these days, +/- 2cm in some circumstances. If you don’t need to get nats-ass a surveyor with the right equipment would not need to bring control all the way through the neighborhood like you describe.


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[::: :::]

In a legal dispute, they will go to the nearest RELIABLE monuments to triangulate & that may extend the baseline map

(& yes, survey records can get squirrelly quickly despite best practices when historical title records are tied to the big oak near the boulder that resembles old johnson’s ma)

[californiagrown]

- IME two different surveyors will never find the exact same point. If you talk to surveyor A, surveyor B will always be “off.” Environmental conditions, equipment tolerances, etc. Plus there is some professionalism/culture factor of each of them finding the exact point. BUT they will only be off each other by say 0.03’, which is a mile in survey speak but only 3/8” for the rest of us…
- An expensive 2 man survey crew will cost $250 an hour + office time.

GPS survey technology is pretty good these days, +/- 2cm in some circumstances. If you don’t need to get nats-ass a surveyor with the right equipment would not need to bring control all the way through the neighborhood like you describe.

Off the top of my head i can think of 2 different projects in the last couple years where the surveyor was switched halfway through a project to grab an additional area of survey and we received surveys that differed by over a foot in places (survey size under 10 ac). When surveys use slightly different rotations, different controls and benchmarks etc you can get some pretty wide discrepancies. HUUUUGE pet peeve when surveyors are switched midstream on projects.

FWIW, just had a surveyor propose to do a full topo survey (utilities, topo, boundary, title review) on a 1 acre site 2 hours from their office for the grand total of $8500. So, a residential single lot boundary survey should be <$2k. Really should be less than $1k, but youll get upcharged for smaller jobs. Compared to the lawyer billing $150 per email, and $1k to "look into it" id just tell the lawyer to site tight till you get the survey done.

[::: :::]

Just had a survey to divide a 5ac lot w/ local topo lines for an outbuilding expansion - $4k, incl County submission process for lot line adjustment

[XXX-er]

Anyone know anything about surveying? How long does a magnail stay magnetized? And what would happen to a magnail if the asphalt street was surface ground and resurfaced. (ie not ripped up and replaced.) Could the nail have been placed deep enough to survive? This concerns a boundary line dispute. A surveyor who we think is a buddy of the neighbor claims to have found a magnail placed in 2005. And we have our doubts about the 2005 survey, since we were never aware of it and we never saw the monuments the surveyor claimed to have placed. The guy who ordered the 2005 survey was extremely shady--a story too long to bore anyone with.

not a surveyor but I was the stick bitch a job that was short term/ low commitment/ with lots of exercise

up here the pins would be 3' steel rods and they never quit being steel so we would use a magnometer to find them, if we couldn't find a certain pin on the property there were other pins down the street or wherever to shoot off of as long as there is a line of site but that takes more time/ hassle

at least up here as I understand it a surveyor needs to be a licensed (BCLS ) in the jurisdiction to layout a lot exaclty where its suposed to be, they could be called upon as a witness in litigation so its a professional designation

then an un-licensed engineer/ surveyor/ anyone who has the equipment can shoot/ layout projects off those pins and IME those guys may or may not know shit,

from what I have seen working for 5 different companies the BCLS outfit was the best, I would pay for the best

[Monoteleskier]

Off the top of my head i can think of 2 different projects in the last couple years where the surveyor was switched halfway through a project to grab an additional area of survey and we received surveys that differed by over a foot in places (survey size under 10 ac). When surveys use slightly different rotations, different controls and benchmarks etc you can get some pretty wide discrepancies. HUUUUGE pet peeve when surveyors are switched midstream on projects.

FWIW, just had a surveyor propose to do a full topo survey (utilities, topo, boundary, title review) on a 1 acre site 2 hours from their office for the grand total of $8500. So, a residential single lot boundary survey should be <$2k. Really should be less than $1k, but youll get upcharged for smaller jobs. Compared to the lawyer billing $150 per email, and $1k to "look into it" id just tell the lawyer to site tight till you get the survey done.

Yes, $1k-2k is about what we'd charge up here for what he's describing.

Old goat: Your own surveyor should be able to retrace the previous surveyors steps and see how he established the common boundary. If you want to get an idea for the amount of work that retracement will entail, see if you can pull a copy of the 2005 survey (or any other nearby surveys/plats) from your County Surveyor's office. You sig says Truckee so: https://www.nevadacountyca.gov/353/County-Surveyor

[fatnslow]

This place is great for getting random expert advice. Old goat probably saved himself 30 hours of research with endless run around by posting here.

[old goat]

It just seems crazy to me that they would hire a lawyer to determine if they need to get a survey crew out there. Its like paying $5k to determine if they need to spend $2k (probably less). Order of operations, in my mind, should be to get the survey done, and if it contradicts the neighbors survey (could be for a variety of nefarious or legitimate reasons) then you get the lawyer involved.

We hired a lawyer because the neighbor had a lawyer accusing us of criminal trespass and elder abuse for not immediately agreeing that the property that has been ours for 40 years is theirs. (They're the same age as us.) The price we were quoted for a survey was 10K with a 3 month wait. So far the lawyer has been cheaper, although that could change, and in any case we had no choice. And as I said before--the doctrine of agreed boundary overrides survey results in CA. (When we and our first neighbor agreed on the boundary we actually moved the fence a foot closer to our house.)

At this point my main interest in the magnail is that it is the only point the recent boundary survey used to set his stakes--which have fallen over and been reset--not by us--multiple times. We do suspect that if the magnail is there it is not in the right place. The 2005 survey used a single reference point at the corner of the block. Measuring the width of our lot from the current boundary survey puts the other side of our lot well into the lot of the neighbor on the other side of us.

Old newguy is right. There may be more going on. The guy who bought the house after the original owners died was a doctor who fancied himself a builder. He started partial demolition without a permit, was an unlicensed contractor (owner builders can't hire workers other than licensed contractors), had undocumented immigrants removing asbestos and lead paint without protection and disposing of it in the regular dumpster, and eventually shut down by the fire marshal for an egregious electrical violation (using a shipping container as a shop, powered by unshielded romex lying on the ground and being pinched by the doors of the shipping container._ The city demolished the house. (The current house was built years later). We were sued for reporting him. Our insurance company settled with him for less than his costs. We strongly suspect a connection between him and our current neighbors.
This guy got away with what he did for as long as he did because the city ignored our complaints--he had some kind of deal going with the corrupt head of the building dept, who was the guy who rented him the shipping container. We only got results when we got the FD involved. So it is very possible that this guy found a surveyor to fake a survey and give him what he wanted. The other day we saw the current neighbor digging at the other front corner of his property looking for the monument that was supposed to be there and he couldn't find it. This is all in Sacramento BTW.

[Monoteleskier]

We hired a lawyer because the neighbor had a lawyer accusing us of criminal trespass and elder abuse for not immediately agreeing that the property that has been ours for 40 years is theirs. (They're the same age as us.) The price we were quoted for a survey was 10K with a 3 month wait. So far the lawyer has been cheaper, although that could change, and in any case we had no choice. And as I said before--the doctrine of agreed boundary overrides survey results in CA. (When we and our first neighbor agreed on the boundary we actually moved the fence a foot closer to our house.)

At this point my main interest in the magnail is that it is the only point the recent boundary survey used to set his stakes--which have fallen over and been reset--not by us--multiple times. We do suspect that if the magnail is there it is not in the right place. The 2005 survey used a single reference point at the corner of the block. Measuring the width of our lot from the current boundary survey puts the other side of our lot well into the lot of the neighbor on the other side of us.

Old newguy is right. There may be more going on. The guy who bought the house after the original owners died was a doctor who fancied himself a builder. He started partial demolition without a permit, was an unlicensed contractor (owner builders can't hire workers other than licensed contractors), had undocumented immigrants removing asbestos and lead paint without protection and disposing of it in the regular dumpster, and eventually shut down by the fire marshal for an egregious electrical violation (using a shipping container as a shop, powered by unshielded romex lying on the ground and being pinched by the doors of the shipping container._ The city demolished the house. (The current house was built years later). We were sued for reporting him. Our insurance company settled with him for less than his costs. We strongly suspect a connection between him and our current neighbors.
This guy got away with what he did for as long as he did because the city ignored our complaints--he had some kind of deal going with the corrupt head of the building dept, who was the guy who rented him the shipping container. We only got results when we got the FD involved. So it is very possible that this guy found a surveyor to fake a survey and give him what he wanted. The other day we saw the current neighbor digging at the other front corner of his property looking for the monument that was supposed to be there and he couldn't find it. This is all in Sacramento BTW.

Unwritten property rights vs. surveyed boundary + attorneys is a bad time and the quote you got likely factors in more that simply locating the boundary. Honestly that kind of number/timeline is something I would give on a job I didn't really want. Was the surveyor referred by your attorney? I generally turn down work from attorneys except for a few I've worked with over the years.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

We hired a lawyer because the neighbor had a lawyer accusing us of criminal trespass and elder abuse for not immediately agreeing that the property that has been ours for 40 years is theirs. (They're the same age as us.) The price we were quoted for a survey was 10K with a 3 month wait. So far the lawyer has been cheaper, although that could change, and in any case we had no choice. And as I said before--the doctrine of agreed boundary overrides survey results in CA. (When we and our first neighbor agreed on the boundary we actually moved the fence a foot closer to our house.)

At this point my main interest in the magnail is that it is the only point the recent boundary survey used to set his stakes--which have fallen over and been reset--not by us--multiple times. We do suspect that if the magnail is there it is not in the right place. The 2005 survey used a single reference point at the corner of the block. Measuring the width of our lot from the current boundary survey puts the other side of our lot well into the lot of the neighbor on the other side of us.

Old newguy is right. There may be more going on. The guy who bought the house after the original owners died was a doctor who fancied himself a builder. He started partial demolition without a permit, was an unlicensed contractor (owner builders can't hire workers other than licensed contractors), had undocumented immigrants removing asbestos and lead paint without protection and disposing of it in the regular dumpster, and eventually shut down by the fire marshal for an egregious electrical violation (using a shipping container as a shop, powered by unshielded romex lying on the ground and being pinched by the doors of the shipping container._ The city demolished the house. (The current house was built years later). We were sued for reporting him. Our insurance company settled with him for less than his costs. We strongly suspect a connection between him and our current neighbors.
This guy got away with what he did for as long as he did because the city ignored our complaints--he had some kind of deal going with the corrupt head of the building dept, who was the guy who rented him the shipping container. We only got results when we got the FD involved. So it is very possible that this guy found a surveyor to fake a survey and give him what he wanted. The other day we saw the current neighbor digging at the other front corner of his property looking for the monument that was supposed to be there and he couldn't find it. This is all in Sacramento BTW.

Oh jeez, this is really sounding like out Santa Cruz range war.