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  1. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Meh, airflow spreads fire. Pretty much any wall material you choose will hold the fire to that room until the fire department arrives if you control flow paths.
    Fire behavior in structure fires isn’t quite that simple
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  2. #1227
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoqpass View Post
    Fire behavior in structure fires isn’t quite that simple
    Do tell.

  3. #1228
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    Curious to hear thoughts from the resident architects and dentists of using a design/build process versus hiring an independent architect for a major remodel (adding a second story, complete kitchen redo, new garage with weird lot placement, etc). Do you think design/build firms are better at spitballing costs and tweaking the scope to fit budget goals as compared to regular design only architects?

  4. #1229
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    tldr: If the budget is the driver, design/build can make a lot of sense. If project quality is the driver (design, materials, oversight), then an architect/designer driven process may be better. [that doesn't ignore that a budget is important]


    Design/build is great until it isn't. Both the best and worst thing about design/build is single source responsibility.

    The difficulty with it is that there is no independent advocate for the owner. The designer is beholden to the contractor (because he is the contractor).

    The process is sold to clients as a way to be more efficient and cost effective. But many don't anticipate that the GC has as much invested in the design as the owner.

    What can happen as the project scope approaches the agreed cost limit is that the GC starts to short arm the potential possibilities for design options both for limiting designer time and for limiting material choices because he has a stake in the promised number. That's a little bit funny for something that is this huge purchase that you have to live with & he doesn't.

    During design & construction, there is no independent professional watching how things come together or whether design changes are being made without input.

    Be clear about what services are included, including & especially any jurisdictional processes or submissions. I've found many design/builders to be sorely uneducated in the jurisdictional issues that may affect a project (design review, historic review especially). Some just outsource those efforts back to the client, which isn't particularly helpful for someone who likely doesn't know what they're getting into.

    Ultimately, the project is only as good as the team and the shared expectations for quality.

  5. #1230
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    Both are only as good as the people. Architect should (key word is should, a lot of variability around accurate costing skill) be able to nail the best subs for the job,but it's an additional margin take.
    Design/build you're counting on both the designer and firm to know their shit.
    You can win or lose with either approach, so it's worth initial meetings to see who feels most reliable and straightforward with a history of like work.

  6. #1231
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    Most design/build firms I've worked with are a joke. It tends to be an architect pretending to be a bags-off GC. I do a fair amount of structural remodels. The only way it works is if the contractor, arch/engineer and the homo work together to go through as many iterations of the plan as are needed to make everyone comfortable.

    You'd be surprised about how much the contractor can save the customer money with value engineering. A design/build firm could do that but you'd need an awesome architect and an awesome contractor. Is that one guy? Unlikely.

    Find an architect you like. Draft some preliminary plans. Do your own take off to estimate materials. Walk the job with a few contractors and roll with the one that acts like he gives a shit and is engaged in the project. Its is all gonna be cost plus. Offer to pay him $500 to get with his subs and give a good faith estimate.

    I say add up the square footage of the pop top, garage and kitchen. Multiply by $250. That's my estimate.

  7. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    tldr: If the budget is the driver, design/build can make a lot of sense. If project quality is the driver (design, materials, oversight), then an architect/designer driven process may be better. [that doesn't ignore that a budget is important]


    Design/build is great until it isn't. Both the best and worst thing about design/build is single source responsibility.

    The difficulty with it is that there is no independent advocate for the owner. The designer is beholden to the contractor (because he is the contractor).

    The process is sold to clients as a way to be more efficient and cost effective. But many don't anticipate that the GC has as much invested in the design as the owner.

    What can happen as the project scope approaches the agreed cost limit is that the GC starts to short arm the potential possibilities for design options both for limiting designer time and for limiting material choices because he has a stake in the promised number. That's a little bit funny for something that is this huge purchase that you have to live with & he doesn't.

    During design & construction, there is no independent professional watching how things come together or whether design changes are being made without input.

    Be clear about what services are included, including & especially any jurisdictional processes or submissions. I've found many design/builders to be sorely uneducated in the jurisdictional issues that may affect a project (design review, historic review especially). Some just outsource those efforts back to the client, which isn't particularly helpful for someone who likely doesn't know what they're getting into.

    Ultimately, the project is only as good as the team and the shared expectations for quality.
    Fuck I just spent half an hour trying to write exactly that but I'm too high. But I agree completely.

  8. #1233
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    Right out of architecture school I worked at a design build construction firm, commercial not residential. Downsides have been well defined already but what I liked about the process was the direct access to an estimator and superintendent. I could get immediate and accurate feedback on costs and how difficult a detail would be to build. Essentially value engineering was done from early on in the process.

    It wasn't completely altruistic, a good chunk of the savings was converted to profit. The design build side of the office carried the traditional bid side of the company through the crappy early 90's recession with our high profit margin. Owners did get some savings and they got well built buildings, well they did once we stopped being a Butler Builder.

    It all comes down to the team and how they work together. Check references. Design build and traditional design then bid will both work if done right.

  9. #1234
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    Good points so far, thanks all.


    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    tldr: If the budget is the driver, design/build can make a lot of sense. If project quality is the driver (design, materials, oversight), then an architect/designer driven process may be better. [that doesn't ignore that a budget is important]

    Design/build is great until it isn't. Both the best and worst thing about design/build is single source responsibility.
    Budget is definitely a consideration, as much from not wanting to overbuild for the neighborhood (this is a whole separate deal that I am stressing over) as for actual budget concerns, which are nonetheless real. As far as the design/build outfit we are looking at, I have watched at least a dozen of their projects from the ground up (or close) and I have zero concerns about the quality or their design aesthetic, and I would live in any of their projects. They also have about 10 employees so it's not a bags-off paper pusher GC subbing everything out.

    Also, because I have a pretty extensive background in building shit, I like the idea of a more direct link between the guy running the mouse and the guys in the field, and I think I will be able to readily make decisions that might seem overwhelming to the average client. But then again, I'll probably be a huge pain in the ass for the same reason.

    And we shouldn't have any major design review issues, since that is not really a thing here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    You'd be surprised about how much the contractor can save the customer money with value engineering. A design/build firm could do that but you'd need an awesome architect and an awesome contractor. Is that one guy? Unlikely.

    I say add up the square footage of the pop top, garage and kitchen. Multiply by $250. That's my estimate.
    The value engineering is where I like the idea of a design/build company from the get go. I want to walk the house as-is with the people who are going to be doing the work and throw around ideas to get their take before an architect gets any crazy ideas. But I don't expect any crazy ideas in the first place, the popped top is going on top of a simple rectangle and I am envisioning a single gable roof with a big shed dormer on both sides. We are not going to be doing anything crazy. The last house I ever built for someone else had fourteen fucking gable ends and I know exactly how much time we spent on ridiculous exterior details at the expense of things that should have been happening inside.

    Your number is duly noted and not really that far off from what I was hoping...except for the garage.

    edit: just pulled a picture of the 14 gable house and I seriously cannot fathom how much time and money went into the exterior detailing on this place. Fucking shingles, man.




  10. #1235
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Fuck I just spent half an hour trying to write exactly that but I'm too high. But I agree completely.
    thats funny didn't see you in my office this morning
    My partner shows up and says he has a customer meeting in twenty minutes never set so many fans up at once got the places aired out in five minutes totally redeye for the meeting

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  11. #1236
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    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    I have zero experience in home building but I’ve spent my professional life doing design build work in the healthcare, aviation, higher-ed, and military sectors.

    If I were to build a home I would lean towards a design build approach.

    The biggest benefit I see to owners is schedule. You put the clock in one entities hand and the design will be pushed as hard as the construction, specifically; design issues will be pushed to completion.

    Just like Foggy said “beware of the architect pretending to be a GC.” Beware of the GC that just buys a design from an architect. You want a company with full time construction staff and full time design staff. Real superintendents, real architects. Or a GC that hires an architecture firm would work, although that’s more of a commercial construction setup.


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  12. #1237
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    Sliding Glass Patio Door - water in rail/track

    I have a sliding glass patio door, 96 in. wide. One stationary door, and one slider. It's about 15-20 years old, well maintained.

    When it rains I'm getting water on the inside rail track. For a light rain not a lot of water. However in one recent very heavy/violent downpour (lots of wind) the inside rail filled up almost to the point of overflowing. This all started in last two months. But I don't know why, and am out of ideas. Youtube videos are not helpful.

    Water comes from the outside of the slider door, seems like it flows down the glass, into the rail, and then flows along the rail to the inside. Rail/track/threshold is aluminum. Picture attached shows water flow from a small downpour today. Also a picture of the seal (outside) between the slider door and the outside threshold, there is a gap of about 1/16 in, I'm not so sure this was ever a watertight/airtight seal.

    I'm stumped how this started happening all of a sudden, yet I can't totally rule out it has been happening and no one ever noticed. Door is well maintained, rollers are aligned and cleaned (as well as can be without taking the door off the frame), door opens and closes smoothly, bottom rails/tracks are straight.

    I see what I presume to be a rectangular weep hole on the outside (third pic attached), and another of similar geometry on the inside (no pic), but I cannot stick a wire through them, and no light shines through from one to the other, and they clearly do not drain water away. They can't be anything other than weep holes but I can't figure out why they don't work.

    I can put weather stripping on the bottom of the slider door, to touch the outside threshold, but that seems like I'd be band-aiding the problem.

    Help or ideas greatly appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Today's water infiltration, from a small downpour.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bottom of slider door as seen from the outside, and after a rain, the dirt and debris was kicked up by the rain. The end of the brush is inserted into the gap.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Close up of presumed weep hole as seen from the outside. This is the only hole on the outside rail. There is a hole with similar geometry inside the slider rail close to this one, and about 1/2 inch higher in elevation. Cannot see light pass from one hole to the other hole, and cannot stick a wire from one to the other.
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  13. #1238
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    Wondering if the vertical weather stripping between sliders is letting it pool there?

    Has it consistently started nearest the junction between door panels like in your first image?

  14. #1239
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    Seal under the moving panel https://www.google.com could be dirty or worn. I would take the moving panel out and check/clean the bottom sweep to start.

    look for a vid like this for your brand if you need directions.

    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

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  15. #1240
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    Wondering if the vertical weather stripping between sliders is letting it pool there?

    Has it consistently started nearest the junction between door panels like in your first image?
    Yes to 2nd question. However observation from pouring a cup of water into track from one end is there is a very slight pitch that makes water slowly flow to the door junction.

    Here'e one more pic showing a 3/4 in H x 1/2 in W opening to the atmosphere, sliding door to the left, stationary door in the middle, sliding screen door to the right, pic taken from outside at night, the orange glow is inside lights reflecting off wood flooring.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks VT-FH, good info. I also found this vid, starting at 28 sec is a graphic of how weep holes work. The video makes it seem like if the holes get clogged up no easy way to clean out/blow out. But no idea if this is the same geometry of the weep holes in my frame.
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  16. #1241
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    If your door gets major sun, the vertical brush track, without major UV protection, will shrink. Which exposes the underlying wood and could allow water to enter.
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  17. #1242
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    After watching watching the two videos below I convinced myself the weep holes/weep channels are blocked. Lots of fine dirt in every track and crevice backs this up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZvPXNfafTM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWm2YG_jNAc&t=0m45s

    The road block I'm now stuck with is I cannot get the metal sill plate to come off (see 45s in second video). My metal sill plate will not come off as easily as shown in the video. Nor can I see any label naming the door manufacturer.

    What's next, blow compressed air through the inside weep hole, then test with a cup of water?
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  18. #1243
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    Problem Solved.

    The weep hole/water passage path was blocked up. I tried a mini steam tool and it worked to push dirt to the outside, pics below. Notice the amount of dirt and silt that washed out with the first push of steam and pressure. Tried a shop vac in both suction or blower mode, it could not clean out the blockage.

    Tested by pouring water into the rail and watch it flow out the outside weep hole. It was satisfying to see the water flow out.

    I hesitated to do this, thinking the pressure and steam could loosen-up seals and caulking, especially those out of sight. I sprayed from the inside weep hole only, in the 'water going downhill direction.' Also didn't want to push any more steam than necessary to the inside.

    Notes for future reference, I'd stop the steam and pressure into the weep hole as soon as possible, as soon as you see dirt and grit flowing out with some clean water. No need to subject an old aluminum frame, corners, fasteners, joints, seals and caulk, especially passages and surfaces out of sight, under a sill plate etc., to any more pressure and steam than is needed to clear the path ways.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Nobody Famous; 09-14-2019 at 02:30 PM.
    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  19. #1244
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    Specs for a roof replacement?

    Roof replacement on a multi-unit condo building, yikes!

    Dealing with quotes and bids from roofing contractors is a cryptic process, you have to question and repeatedly ask to find out what materials they propose to use.

    Main stumbling block right now is writing a short one or two page spec -- not the 20-40 page kind that municipal and government jobs use -- that can apply to any contractor and get the contractors to quote equivalent materials and installation methods.

    Example of cryptic-ness: manufacturers, Certain Teed, GAF etc. offer 40 year, 50 year or lifetime warranties. To get these warranties you have to use the manufacturers ‘system,’ asphalt shingles, underlayment, ice & water shields, drip edges, ridge vents, pipe boots, sealants, etc., etc. All this is in addition to the contractor installing per “manufacturer’s instructions.” Should the contractor do something wrong, five or ten years down the road is way too late to find out.

    Some points I’ve picked up in this:

    • Lifetime warranty means for the lifetime of the original owner, or in some limited cases the next owner.
    • Warranties on materials, shingles, ice/water shield, etc. are full replacement for first ten years, then prorated after that.
    • Contractors can easily skimp on lower cost materials (to get a low bid), never mention this on their proposal, and still say or imply you have Manufacturer's warranty.
    • Labor warranties, seem like all talk/no substance, you want a warranty on workmanship that lasts for a long time, ythe contractor may be gone in five years.
    • Manufacturer’s instructions: The small details matter, fastener type, length, spacing, installation method, etc, This is but one example


    Any insights, words of advice or things to avoid are appreciated.

    “The best argument in favour of a 90% tax rate on the rich is a five-minute chat with the average rich person.”

    - Winston Churchill, paraphrased.

  20. #1245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Famous View Post
    <snip>



    Any insights, words of advice or things to avoid are appreciated.

    Sell the place and retire?

  21. #1246
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    Wallpaper/primer question: Currently remodeling a corner of my garage into a convertible workbench/bar area. Currently installing drywall then the plan is to prime then wallpaper it. Garage is pretty dry but unheated and not insulated. I have a shit ton of basic latex primer in my paint stash (Killz 2). Can I use that for under wall paper or do I really need to go buy oil/acrylic based primer?
    "Great barbecue makes you want to slap your granny up the side of her head." - Southern Saying

  22. #1247
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    Dude, that was a LOT of dirt that came out of that hole. Nice work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  23. #1248
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    Let someone else do it.

    Being president of an HOA, during a major project, is the most thankless job in the universe.
    Luckily, my wife has a short dress and a long jacket.

  24. #1249
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoSkier View Post
    Wallpaper/primer question: Currently remodeling a corner of my garage into a convertible workbench/bar area. Currently installing drywall then the plan is to prime then wallpaper it. Garage is pretty dry but unheated and not insulated. I have a shit ton of basic latex primer in my paint stash (Killz 2). Can I use that for under wall paper or do I really need to go buy oil/acrylic based primer?
    why the FUCK are you putting wallpaper in a garage? That said, it's a GARAGE. The regular considerations with wallpaper and latex (too much moisture for too long) probably don't matter in this context.

  25. #1250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody Famous View Post

    "I volunteered to be HOA president and now I am FUCKED."
    Dude, warranty doesn't matter. If it fails you will have way bigger problems to deal with. Find a legit contractor who has been around a long time, and for god's sake, do not choose based on price.

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