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  1. #5701
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    5,761

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Shit a drone is even cheaper than FG extension ladder.


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  2. #5702
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    3,064
    Perfect!




    If you only need to look @ something

  3. #5703
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    59715
    Posts
    7,447
    Luckily I only need to look around. I'm getting too old to be climbing stupid high roofs and pitches, I bought the drone as a Xmas present to myself and I'm loving it.

  4. #5704
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    2 hours from anything
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    10,734
    We had a guy fall off a ladder, he sued the property owner who we had to indemnify (so he got workers comp plus lost wages and medical costs). Not sure exactly how he got around workers comp but he did. Cost of medical procedures was calculated at $3mil for the rest of his life, lost wages was $2m, add in the rest it was a $10m ladder climb by the time we were done.


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  5. #5705
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    23,120
    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Most adjusting companies forbid using any ladders over 20’. Any higher use a drone or get a bucket / lift. It just isn’t worth the risk.
    There are enough times when you have to get on a ladder. Putting xmas lights up to the peak of your gable is not one of them.

  6. #5706
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
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    5,838

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Just had the glass cleaning company cleaning windows at work yesterday. Commercial building with high ceilings and big windows. Dude was on an aluminum extension ladder cleaning the third floor windows above a concrete pad. It was 30 degrees outside and windy. Nope nope nope.
    focus.

  7. #5707
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    inw
    Posts
    1,282
    I'm getting a pellet stove delivered next week and have never installed one. Going to give it a try. Any dos, don'ts folks care to share?

    Here's what I've got to this point:

    - it's going in the basement of a one-story home (50k btu for a ~1,100 sq ft house)
    - I've got the chimney liner kit in hand (venting via an interior, original brick chimney used by previous furnaces, which I just had cleaned).
    - I've got the piping, T, and a connector for the pipe flex liner connection
    - it's going to sit on a few pavers just to get it up off the basement floor (unfinished concrete) in close proximity to the chimney & opening
    - not relishing the top-of-chimney work but I'm comfortable on a ladder / roof
    - tech support guy at mfg said I'll do fine with no outside air / intake but I'm skeptical re: negative air pressure
    - gonna figure out how best to allow / coax heat up to the main living space in the months ahead but no rush. just getting it installed is the immediate focus.

  8. #5708
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,054
    50k btu is a lot for a basement.

    Can you punch through the chimney on the first floor? That’s where you need the heat
    You could even punch through any wall for an ugly exterior but functional vent
    . . .

  9. #5709
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    314
    When you start buying pellets, try a few different kinds before committing to a ton. There is a lot of shitty pellets out there. Ashy, don’t burn well or too long they clog the hopper. I didn’t run an air intake outside, but I have a drafty house.

  10. #5710
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nhampshire
    Posts
    7,762
    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    When you start buying pellets, try a few different kinds before committing to a ton. There is a lot of shitty pellets out there. Ashy, don’t burn well or too long they clog the hopper. I didn’t run an air intake outside, but I have a drafty house.
    This - there's a few pellet review sites that break down the best ones. You'll usually have to hit up a pellet stove store or similar for the good ones.

  11. #5711
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    inw
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    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    50k btu is a lot for a basement.

    Can you punch through the chimney on the first floor? That’s where you need the heat
    You could even punch through any wall for an ugly exterior but functional vent
    Yes, and this is what a smart person would do. I have this crazy idea that I want poor-man's radiant floor heating (plus some air flow to 1st floor). So overdo on the BTUs and, after a season of experience, probably cut register holes in the strategic spots to allow the heat to rise up. Maybe even jury rig some fan system at the registers for a zone effect. That's getting ahead of myself. But that's partly why the basement vs. first floor. Worst case: the basement idea flops for some reason and then haul it up to the first floor for next season.

  12. #5712
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    May 2015
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    inw
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    This - there's a few pellet review sites that break down the best ones. You'll usually have to hit up a pellet stove store or similar for the good ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    When you start buying pellets, try a few different kinds before committing to a ton. There is a lot of shitty pellets out there. Ashy, don’t burn well or too long they clog the hopper. I didn’t run an air intake outside, but I have a drafty house.
    Good stuff. Yes, I've been doing some research and seeing the variety of quality & experience out there. Seems a somewhat local thing, too. I'm near a plant in n Idaho that does 100% doug fir which seems to burn cleaner / less ash. Will definitely test a few before buying a pallet.

    And good to hear about the air intake. My house is over 100 yrs old (I think) and so it drafts with the best of them.

    Thanks!

  13. #5713
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Your Wife
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    8,291
    Unless your foundation walls are insulated, they're going to absorb a huge amount of the heat output from your pellet stove. Heating from the basement works best when the basement is fully insulated, otherwise it's inefficient at best. The foundation walls are a massive heat sink and a whole lot of that heat is going to end up radiating into the ground around your house.

    You should be fine without installing the outside air kit in an older house. They're also not often used in basement installs unless it's a walkout, as you ideally want the combustion air source to be at the same level as or below the stove.

  14. #5714
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    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
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    20,197

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    There are reasons gravity vents aren’t common anymore

  15. #5715
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,218
    I am blowing insulation into my attic soon to get to R38, which means I am going to have 12 to 14 inches of insulation up there.

    I need to construct some limited access and storage (yeah, I know, don’t put storage in your attic) plywood platforms. I want to use foam board under these locations so I don’t have to pick the platform up 14 inches to get the r value from blow in.

    Plan is to frame up as far as required to get near R38, air seal penetrations, drop the foam board in, air seal that and then put plywood over.

    Is there a moisture condensation issue with this approach?

  16. #5716
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    Oct 2003
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    Do you have vaulted ceilings or a very small (height-wise) attic? Why only R-38? Most attics I see these days have at least R-60 in them, mine included.

    Are you doing the blow-in insulation yourself or hiring the job out? If you're hiring insulators, have you priced out doing 2-3 inches of closed cell spray foam, then blown insulation on top?

  17. #5717
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    I am blowing insulation into my attic soon to get to R38, which means I am going to have 12 to 14 inches of insulation up there.

    I need to construct some limited access and storage (yeah, I know, don’t put storage in your attic) plywood platforms. I want to use foam board under these locations so I don’t have to pick the platform up 14 inches to get the r value from blow in.

    Plan is to frame up as far as required to get near R38, air seal penetrations, drop the foam board in, air seal that and then put plywood over.

    Is there a moisture condensation issue with this approach?
    In the limited area at the surface of the closed cell foam boards, yes

    Is it going to wreck your indoor air quality or promote prolific mold? Prolly not, tho I’ll qualify that by saying it depends on the extent of foam surface

    If it’s just 50sf in a 1000sf footprint, prolly not worth thinking about

    Your materials stored tho will swing temps & humidity with the attic conditions…something to consider for valuables or personal mementos.

    In our area of the world, it may not be the end of the world to just stuff batts in the ceiling framing to fit the bays under the plywood & leave it at that. Again, tempered by the percentage of storage to properly insulated attic…

  18. #5718
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    Aug 2020
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    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Do you have vaulted ceilings or a very small (height-wise) attic? Why only R-38? Most attics I see these days have at least R-60 in them, mine included.

    Are you doing the blow-in insulation yourself or hiring the job out? If you're hiring insulators, have you priced out doing 2-3 inches of closed cell spray foam, then blown insulation on top?
    Normal attic, not super tall, I can sort of stand up in the center. Adding 14 inches doesn’t really work well and I’m hoping to trade buying a bunch of lumber to get to 14 inches for some lumber (2x4, 2x6) I already have laying around that I can repurpose.

    I’m planning to do it myself at this point. I have gotten some quotes and have a few others in the works, but not super impressed with what they are proposing in terms of cost and approach.

    I have been told by at least one insulator/weatherization company that going above R38 in my house doesn’t make sense because I have an old house with 2x4 walls and little insulation in the walls and the cost benefit doesn’t pan out because the heat just starts going out the walls faster than it can go through the ceiling above R38. Bullshit?

    Fits my budget better anyways.

    This is also a 1250 SF single level house that I’m not going to live in until I die, so seems ripe for reducing my capital input by doing a little sweat equity.

  19. #5719
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    Oct 2003
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    In Your Wife
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    It's difficult to say if it's bullshit without a home energy audit including a blower door test to see where you're leaking air from.

    As a general rule though, there is less heat loss through above grade walls than people think unless your place is 90% windows. The attic and your foundation-to-framing connection are where the majority of heat loss and cold air infiltration occurs.

    Depending on how accessible the area is, it's often beneficial to air seal at your rim joists/sill plate while you're tightening up the attic. This helps to reduce the "stack effect" where cold air is pulled into the house at the rim due to heat loss through the attic.

    I'm not sure what sort of rigid insulation you're planning to use under your platforms, but most of that stuff has an R-value of 3-5 per inch, so you're still looking at framing up 7-12 inches to get close to your consistent R-38. It would likely be simpler to get some high-density R-30 or R-38 FG batt to stuff in the bays under your platforms, as AC said.

  20. #5720
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    20,197

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Bullshit?
    Mostly (there is a point of overkill but R-38 isn’t it…R-60 isn’t unreasonable as a top end)

    You would be in a pretty good place if that was the weak point in your insulation system. I’ve got r-49 over here

    And, that problem is also fixable as a retrofit when you’ve saved up for that cost again

  21. #5721
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    23,120
    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    There are reasons gravity vents aren’t common anymore
    I've wondered about that. Our old house has gravity furnace in the basement for the first floor, forced air in the attic for the second story addition. We like the gravity furnace because it's quiet and it works, at least in a mild winter climate like Sacramento. And we don't feel like dealing with asbestos removal--the old furnace and ducts are covered with it.

  22. #5722
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    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Your Wife
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    8,291
    Gravity furnace systems are also a great way to guarantee that even a small fire on a lower level becomes of full on conflagration in no time flat. Unless the system has been retrofitted with fusible link dampers or some other method to prevent the vents from acting like chimneys in the event of a house fire.

  23. #5723
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    1,218
    Thanks. Very useful info, I’ll take a look at batts.

    I think the point about the R38 the guy was trying to make wasn’t that R60 wasn’t beneficial, just that based on his experience doing energy audits there are probably better places to spend the money required to get from R38 to R60 in my situation before going to R60. I was kind of blown away that he wasn’t pushing for more.

  24. #5724
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    inw
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    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Unless your foundation walls are insulated, they're going to absorb a huge amount of the heat output from your pellet stove. Heating from the basement works best when the basement is fully insulated, otherwise it's inefficient at best. The foundation walls are a massive heat sink and a whole lot of that heat is going to end up radiating into the ground around your house.
    Totally. I have some XPS for just this purpose. Planning to have some inefficiency in year 1 to experiment but not trying to heat the ground around my house. might jury rig some blue tarp/temporary internal wall solution at first, to keep the heat away from the foundation. that would also inject some Upstate aesthetics and engineering.

  25. #5725
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
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    20,197
    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Thanks. Very useful info, I’ll take a look at batts.

    I think the point about the R38 the guy was trying to make wasn’t that R60 wasn’t beneficial, just that based on his experience doing energy audits there are probably better places to spend the money required to get from R38 to R60 in my situation before going to R60. I was kind of blown away that he wasn’t pushing for more.
    he's not correct
    r-38 isn't maxed out
    r-49 is current code
    r-60 is likely maxed out for our climate

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