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  1. #4051
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    tankless doesn't work in high altitude Colorado usually the gas service lines are under sized on retrofits altitude doesn't help and the water is always cold as shit here taking water at 50 degrees and trying to heat it to 165 takes lots of energy and time

    Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
    We do fine at 6000'--you're a lot higher of course. We have no problem heating our cold winter water to 130 which is as hot as I want it for 2 simultaneous showers (California 2 gpm shower heads, and I think legal flow is less than that now.)
    My kid has an outside tankless that works fine but it's in Sacramento. Ours is inside but the plumber put an open elbow in the condensate line for when the condensate freezes at the discharge end outdoors. Fortunately there was a convenient hole in the floor that goes down to the crawl space in just the right spot.

    Another advantage of tankless--I can fill my spa a 1/3 of the way with hot water in the winter.

  2. #4052
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    in a freezer in Italy
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    sfb, it looks to me like if the chair would be high enough the way you have it, wouldn't you want people's feet to touch the ground if they were sitting in it?

  3. #4053
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    Jun 2020
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    in a freezer in Italy
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    you're a lot higher of course.
    Goat finally concedes the stoner challenge to fred

  4. #4054
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    Goat finally concedes the stoner challenge to fred
    And I'm not the one using power saws for a living.

  5. #4055
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    Oct 2003
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    The Shed of Incorruptible Veracity
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    165? Is that for heating hot water/wall radiators?
    In-floor is less. Domestic is much less…
    This. What water gets heated anywhere close to 165 degrees in a domestic setting? Unless you're trying to injure your clients, I don't see it. 120F max for DHW.
    Relentlessly pursuing beauty in an irredeemably ugly world.

  6. #4056
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    your vacation
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    2,764
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    This. What water gets heated anywhere close to 165 degrees in a domestic setting? Unless you're trying to injure your clients, I don't see it. 120F max for DHW.
    do you think I have any clue about anything I talk about? surely I would ignore myself cause I know better to belive a word I say
    seriously not trying to be the smartest guy in the room nor do I want to be but I'll take your money
    much more worried about what kind of rims I'm gonna buy for the bro wagon than doing something right at work today

  7. #4057
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    Sep 2018
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    3,417

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    I’m confused by all of this. All these solutions work, just find the best one for you:

    1. Regular water heater off gas, with a tank, is the cheapest solution but must be replaced every 7-12 years depending on what’s in your water

    2. Heat pump water heaters are good anywhere that doesn’t get too cold. Run off electricity, very efficient, no coils to fall apart. Cost around 3x what regular gas tank WHs cost
    3. Tankless gas are fine, cost 3-5 times what #1 costs, if you get one with enough BTUs they provide never ending hot water
    4. Tankless electric cost a lot and are not at all efficient. Hard to find them with a large capacity. Could be useful if you have a ton of solar panels and are generating more than you are using, or if you have a gas free building (which is a big sustainability push these days)
    5. Sidearm off a boiler. Typically gas but can be either. With gas ones they are just as efficient as the boiler which can be quite efficient. Last a very long time as they have no coil. If you have a boiler you should definitely do this. Usually provides unlimited hot water unless the boiler is undersized.

    Altitude doesn’t impact this significantly. There are plenty of gas appliances set up to work at altitude. Incoming water temp matters but that simply means you need to get more BTUs to overcome a greater temperature delta. Distance from fixtures is the same issue no matter which of the above you pick. Heat pumps work better in warmer climates but can work nearly anywhere with the right install.

    I’ve seen literally hundreds of all of the above examples and they are all working fine. Pick the one that works best for your situation and don’t stress.

  8. #4058
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
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    Idaho
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    524
    I will add #5, the sidearm, is subject to water quality issues same as #1, a tanked WH.

  9. #4059
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    Dec 2012
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    165 F will melt the wax ring on the toilet bowl.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  10. #4060
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    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Same deal here.

    We had an exterior install on our last house in the west side of the Cascades and it seemed to do fine in our once a year cold weather.

    It was recessed into a metal box so was somewhat protected from the weather.

    I tend to live in small houses so these make a lot of sense to me. Short runs for the hot water lines, limited interior space, etc. It seems like if you keep it inside then you end up needing nearly the same amount of space to meet the access and clearance requirements as a tank. This one would be on the west side of the Cascades as well.
    Good to know it’s possible. I’m also in WWA. Did they install a “normally closed” solenoid drain valve; so in an outage the unit would self drain to prevent freezing?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Best Skier on the Mountain
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    Squaw Valley, USA

  11. #4061
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    165 F will melt the wax ring on the toilet bowl.
    #douchethybox
    #scaldedtaint

  12. #4062
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    Aug 2020
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    550
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Good to know it’s possible. I’m also in WWA. Did they install a “normally closed” solenoid drain valve; so in an outage the unit would self drain to prevent freezing?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Well, since I was clueless at the time, I never even serviced the thing, so I have no idea.

    I doubt they did anything more than what was required by code (new with the house in 2009).

  13. #4063
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    Feb 2008
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    1,372
    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    #douchethybox
    #scaldedtaint
    That's why my bidet has its own heat on demand water heater. #taintprotection

  14. #4064
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    slc
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    1. Regular water heater off gas, with a tank, is the cheapest solution but must be replaced every 7-12 years depending on what’s in your water.
    Bothering to flush it annually and replace the anode rod periodically will extend the life significantly.

  15. #4065
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    13,291
    A burned taint and a melted wax ring would would be a horrible way to start a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Bothering to flush it annually and replace the anode rod periodically will extend the life significantly.
    If the water heater has a 10 yr warranty, it will fail in 10 years +1 month. No matter what you do. It's like goddamn magic.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  16. #4066
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    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    horrible smell either way you sniff it

  17. #4067
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    Nov 2005
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    Making the Bowl Great Again
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    13,267
    to the fucking bottom, baby!


  18. #4068
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    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    to the fucking bottom, baby!

    Still being quoted $2995/MBF from our national supplier.....


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
    1992 - 2012
    Squaw Valley, USA

  19. #4069
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    I’m confused by all of this. All these solutions work, just find the best one for you:

    1. Regular water heater off gas, with a tank, is the cheapest solution but must be replaced every 7-12 years depending on what’s in your water

    What's in the water in Sacramento must be flouride for water heaters--last year we replaced a 35 year old one that was never drained, never had the anode changed, never leaked. We changed it on general principle while it was still working. The new one certainly heats faster so probably the old one was failing slow enough that we didn't notice. And maybe they built them better 35 years ago. Actually, all of our appliances seem to last longer than they're supposed to. Maybe appliance makers have us all brainwashed to think stuff fails much sooner than it actually does, so that when an appliance fails in a few years we accept it as normal.

    One nice thing about the new one--they're insulated well enough to not need a jacket. With the old one I the jacket on the floor every time I ventured down to the basement.

  20. #4070
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
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    Idaho
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    524
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Still being quoted $2995/MBF from our national supplier.....


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

    Is that an FOB price or delivered?

  21. #4071
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    Dec 2020
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    Idaho
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    524
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    What's in the water in Sacramento must be flouride for water heaters--last year we replaced a 35 year old one that was never drained, never had the anode changed, never leaked. We changed it on general principle while it was still working. The new one certainly heats faster so probably the old one was failing slow enough that we didn't notice. And maybe they built them better 35 years ago. Actually, all of our appliances seem to last longer than they're supposed to. Maybe appliance makers have us all brainwashed to think stuff fails much sooner than it actually does, so that when an appliance fails in a few years we accept it as normal.

    One nice thing about the new one--they're insulated well enough to not need a jacket. With the old one I the jacket on the floor every time I ventured down to the basement.
    If a parts changer comes out once a service call for a dishwasher and a second time to actually replace the part you're at $400. Hopefully it was the right part and your wife does the dishes. LOL

    Buy a new one installed for $450 and you only have 1 appointment to keep and you'll have a NEW working DW for sure.

  22. #4072
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    24,203
    appliances are pretty easy to work on there are youtoobes on how to fix everything, you can buy the parts on-line and my sense is that older appliances are easier to work on / actualy fixable so I fix them myself cuz that fucking appliance repair man who obviously used to work in the plant put a bad part in my M/C just to fuck my shit up

    I been wanting a Honda lawnmower so one shows up on FB last week, apparently it stalls so they buy a new machine instead of fixing it, I get it home to find it runs for a bit and stalls.

    So i watch 3 youtubes on cleaning the carb and its all fixed up for 150$ instead of paying $$$$ for a new Honda


    if a water heater is using energy to heat water and giving heat off arent you still having the benifit of that energy as long as its in your insulated house envelope ??
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #4073
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    Sep 2018
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    3,417
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    if a water heater is using energy to heat water and giving heat off arent you still having the benifit of that energy as long as its in your insulated house envelope ??
    A. Not so great in the summer. B. Even in the winter it's not in the spot you want it, so you are paying to heat your mech room to 95 while the rest of the house is lower. To be most efficient put your heat (or summer cooling) where it most impacts comfort.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Still being quoted $2995/MBF from our national supplier.....
    I keep being told the prices won't come down till they sell out the lumber stock the bought at the higher price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Bothering to flush it annually and replace the anode rod periodically will extend the life significantly.
    This is true. I wonder what percentage of the population actually does this? I'm saying a tiny portion...

  24. #4074
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    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    This is true. I wonder what percentage of the population actually does this? I'm saying a tiny portion...
    Very tiny I'm sure. Shit, most people probably don't even change their furnace filters. But, still worth mentioning. Mine's 14 years old now, it's on its third anode rod and gets flushed every year when I bring in my backyard hoses for the winter. No leaks and the exterior looks great, heats up great, no funky noises when running, minimal color in the flush water. Seems like it could easily make it to 20, but at that point I'll probably replace it regardless.

  25. #4075
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    24,203
    a popular upgrade around here is to replace the gas water heater with an electirc at the same time the 35 yr old gas furnace gets replaced

    that way the furnace intake & exhast pipes can BOTH go up the old furnace/water heater vent which is super easy for the instaler instead of putting holes thru an old finished basement and out the side of the house

    the instal I seen the contracter ate the price of the electrical hookup and only charged for the tank

    you can drive down the street & tell if a house has the new setup cuz you can see the exhast pipe going straight up and the intake with with a 180 pointing down
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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