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  1. #7676
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    Oct 2011
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    Bend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbowski View Post
    I hired my neighbor on a small project and I am worried about the quality of work. I'll admit I hired him very casually and expressed budget concerns- plus the whole project (like hiring a friend/neighbor) is kind of ill advised to begin with, so I bear most of the blame here.

    We are basically building 3 walls to enclose part of my covered entryway. Leaving existing wall and door alone. Going to be shoe/coat storage to get them out of the kitchen. Making it small to leave some overhang.
    Attachment 435698

    Moisture control seems to be an afterthought, which is my main concern being in the Pacific Northwest. Here's what is freaking me out:
    Attachment 435694Attachment 435695


    I was expecting some kind of beefy flashing solution or small curb on the front or something- not 'I'll caulk it after the siding is up'. And I was certainly not expecting a pro carpenter to put untreated door trim and OSB touching the ground. I don't see any sign of sill plate gaskets either.

    He wants to finish the siding tomorrow (has 2 side pieces already in), and I am thinking we should pull off the wrap, add some joint sealer and tape to the sill/concrete interface, and add metal flashing to all sides. I think the 'rightest' way forward for the front is to make a small concrete cut for Z flashing to sit in. I think a door pan may be worth it too. I am happy to do all that myself as I feel he probably does not care as much as I do (I am doing a couple aspects already). But being my neighbor and a pro and me being the idiot who asked for this and watches too many youtubes don't want to step on his toes either.

    Am I overreacting/overengineering/butting in here? The house has survived 120 years in this weather somehow with probably worse construction. And I did essentially ask for a shed bolted to my house after all. On the other hand, I don't want my shed to rot after a year either. Thanks for any advice.
    Yes, you’re overreacting.

    If you wanted it done right you would have gotten at least three bids, checked that they were licensed, insured, and had references and pulled permits.

    It would have been a battle to really keep this super dry on a slab bigger than your footprint. A treated sill plate and flashing would help, but still wouldn’t be a water tight barrier. I would consider it “semi-dry” or “semi-wet” depending on how you feel about either term and let it go. All that extra to keep it from smelling musty? Probably won’t happen anyways with the door opening and closing. It’s under the eaves so it’s not going to just straight up pool water.

  2. #7677
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    Mar 2005
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    Not an overreaction.

    I assume the sill plates for the walls are PT.

    OSB touching the bluestone is wrong.

    The door jamb is tough. Better doors don’t have shit pine wood to the ground.

    Assuming you have the PT. At this point I would use a fein tool to undercut the osb and jamb and then caulk it with a polyurethane sealant.
    Flashing seems like overkill.

  3. #7678
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Shirk View Post
    Love how the graphic includes an SPL meter reading to show how startlingly loud it will be.

  4. #7679
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    20,176
    a good remodel framer could cut the sill plate & replace it without removing the wall
    i'd want to have a PT sill plate -- do it over now before you have to do it over later

    on the horizontal surface, there likely should be an L-flashing tight to the conc -- the horizontal leg can be long. Not sure it's necessary to seal under the flashing as long as there's slope to the concrete away from the wall & there's some kind of eave. Tho it wouldn't hurt to isolate the wood from the exposed crevice with a continuous bead of sealant. You can hold the siding & sheathing up an inch from there.

    i assume you will have an alum threshold for this door. You can set the threshold in epoxy if you want to create a water dam at that location. An interior door frame is asking for problems.

  5. #7680
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    525
    Thanks all. The sills are PT, but the OSB and trim that are currently on the concrete is not. My worry is water wicking into that wood over and over- in our weather the concrete porch gets very damp even with the overhang. Never pools, but often looks wet for days.

    Door threshold is aluminum. It is an outswing door.
    Last edited by Garbowski; 11-28-2022 at 02:47 PM.

  6. #7681
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    Mar 2005
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    Exactly. It’s the wicking.

    I had cedar sidewall shingles being done while I was at work. The moron rested the first course right on the trim flashing. I was tempted to make him tear it all off but he had done two walls already.
    And it does wick.

    I think the undercut and poly sealant will be fine for quite a while.
    Even if you used angle flashing water can weep up anyways if the wood rests on the flashing.

    I hope he painted the cut ends of the trim.

  7. #7682
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbowski View Post
    Thanks all. The sills are PT, but the OSB and trim that are currently on the concrete is not. My worry is water wicking into that wood over and over- in our weather the concrete porch gets very damp even with the overhang. Never pools, but often looks wet for days.

    Door threshold is aluminum. It is an outswing door.
    you're right to worry
    def have it cut up a bit such that you get a capillary break (ie water can't bridge up just by accumulation)
    Then seal that sill plate bottom edge. It won't keep the plate dry but will keep bulk water mostly out.

  8. #7683
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    5,761
    Anybody use a 3rd party smart thermostat with a minisplit setup? Mysa, Flair, Sensibo, Cielo?


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  9. #7684
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Front Range
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    350
    Quote Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained View Post
    Ok, here's a plan to work with.

    For starters, I'd forego the sprayer for 2 doors unless super smooth finish is important. You can get darn smooth with proper sand, vac, tack process.
    (OTOH, Ive used a friend's inexpensive Wagner spraytech and had excellent results, about $125.)

    On sawhorses, protected by a dropcloth or something, sand both sides to get factory glaze off. That's the slight burnishing wood gets when it's milled.

    You're just trying the clean and open the surface. About 100-120 grit. Sand with the grain and not too aggressive, those marks will show if yer gouging. No circular sanding, straight motion, easy.

    Vac the door, then repeat on door 2.

    If not staining, then conditioning is not needed. It's made to equalize a soft wood surface from accepting the stain unevenly. example: open grain on pine will take stain one shade, but near a knot it will likely be different.

    Tack cloth door1 and apply a coat of sanding sealer to it. This locks in the surface color and makes a hard surface for the poly to bond to.

    Many people skip this step but it greatly adds to the durability. Goes on easy too. It will raise the hairs but not as thick as poly so makes for sanding off the hairs mo betta. Pretty quick to dry as well.

    Door2 same. One side at a time, then dry, duh.
    Let them dry horizontally so the materials won't sag or drip in corners, etc.

    After 4 sides sealed, door1 sand again with 180-220 grit then apply poly.

    Are the doors completely smooth or have features?
    With smooth, you can find a roller for very smooth surfaces. I prefer a brush but will often put it on with roller then stroke it out with a good brush.

    With panels, do the small panes first brushing inside out to edges, then the stiles and rails.( Horizontal and vertical pieces)
    Brushing neatly, quickly and methodically is key to no brush strokes. The materials will settle to smoothness.
    Set aside, then door2, side A...

    (Again, whenever it has hardened and time to sand, do all 4 sides, then vacuum and tack. No vacuuming between door poly applications as the vac will blow door 2's dust onto wet door 1.)

    1 coat of sealer and 2 coats of poly is damn durable, 3 is bomber.
    Minwax, Varathane are standard in my neck for clearcoating stuff. Most are fine for the rental.

    Following up - installed doors yesterday, and this came out great. Thanks. Had not used sanding sealer before. Now a fan.

  10. #7685
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
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    Down on Electric Avenue
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    4,390
    Excellent, glad it helped.


  11. #7686
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    So. VT
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    2,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbowski View Post
    I hired my neighbor on a small project and I am worried about the quality of work. I'll admit I hired him very casually and expressed budget concerns- plus the whole project (like hiring a friend/neighbor) is kind of ill advised to begin with, so I bear most of the blame here.

    We are basically building 3 walls to enclose part of my covered entryway. Leaving existing wall and door alone. Going to be shoe/coat storage to get them out of the kitchen. Making it small to leave some overhang.
    Attachment 435698

    Moisture control seems to be an afterthought, which is my main concern being in the Pacific Northwest. Here's what is freaking me out:
    Attachment 435694Attachment 435695


    I was expecting some kind of beefy flashing solution or small curb on the front or something- not 'I'll caulk it after the siding is up'. And I was certainly not expecting a pro carpenter to put untreated door trim and OSB touching the ground. I don't see any sign of sill plate gaskets either.

    He wants to finish the siding tomorrow (has 2 side pieces already in), and I am thinking we should pull off the wrap, add some joint sealer and tape to the sill/concrete interface, and add metal flashing to all sides. I think the 'rightest' way forward for the front is to make a small concrete cut for Z flashing to sit in. I think a door pan may be worth it too. I am happy to do all that myself as I feel he probably does not care as much as I do (I am doing a couple aspects already). But being my neighbor and a pro and me being the idiot who asked for this and watches too many youtubes don't want to step on his toes either.

    Am I overreacting/overengineering/butting in here? The house has survived 120 years in this weather somehow with probably worse construction. And I did essentially ask for a shed bolted to my house after all. On the other hand, I don't want my shed to rot after a year either. Thanks for any advice.
    Didn't you post this on another forum and get some answers?

  12. #7687
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    1,374
    I have an old house with 2 rooms that are ~6.5' x 9.5' and right now they're not serving much of a purpose. Per code a bedroom has to be 70 sf with no dimension smaller than 7'. If I could turn either (or both) rooms into a bedroom by expanding the room out 6"-1' that would be a huge value add to the house (currently 1bed/1bath). What I probably need to do is move the wall but that is no small feat (one is probably impossible as its a load bearing wall). I'm probably asking for the impossible but anyone have some creative ideas here?

    For people who are in the rental business, is it a big deal if the bedrooms aren't to size code? I know I'll need to update the windows

  13. #7688
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    Are they adjacent? Share the same load bearing wall?

  14. #7689
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Almost Mountains
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    Code is local, and concern levels vary. There may also be liability concerns for you, but the last rental I was living in had a very much not-code-compliant bedroom in the basement. I was perfectly good with that for the stupid low rent, but I'm guessing the landlord could've gotten in trouble had I died in a fire.

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  15. #7690
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    13,809
    Quote Originally Posted by PeachesNCream View Post
    I have an old house with 2 rooms that are ~6.5' x 9.5' and right now they're not serving much of a purpose. Per code a bedroom has to be 70 sf with no dimension smaller than 7'. If I could turn either (or both) rooms into a bedroom by expanding the room out 6"-1' that would be a huge value add to the house (currently 1bed/1bath). What I probably need to do is move the wall but that is no small feat (one is probably impossible as its a load bearing wall). I'm probably asking for the impossible but anyone have some creative ideas here?

    For people who are in the rental business, is it a big deal if the bedrooms aren't to size code? I know I'll need to update the windows
    What's on the other side of the wall? You could potentially open it up and install a beam to carry the load. But that'd require some engineering, which adds to the expense.

  16. #7691
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    1,374
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    Code is local, and concern levels vary. There may also be liability concerns for you, but the last rental I was living in had a very much not-code-compliant bedroom in the basement. I was perfectly good with that for the stupid low rent, but I'm guessing the landlord could've gotten in trouble had I died in a fire.

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    I don’t think there’d be liability cause fire escape would be kosher so shouldn’t affect fire deaths. The only people that I feel like could get upset would be the City. I’ll have to take a look through the local code.

    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Are they adjacent? Share the same load bearing wall?
    No, unfortunately not, opposite sides of the house.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    What's on the other side of the wall? You could potentially open it up and install a beam to carry the load. But that'd require some engineering, which adds to the expense.
    Yeah, don’t want to do that due to the layout of the house. Bedroom #2 has that option but I’d be moving a wall for 1’ of extra space which seems like a lot of work for not much pay.

    Unfortunately I think I’m asking for some black magic


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  17. #7692
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,648
    You just have 2 non-conforming bedrooms. Nothing more nothing less. Some jurisdictions have regulations regarding egress (window usually) for rentals but most do not.

  18. #7693
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Don't you have to have a closet to call it a bedroom. At least some places.
    I don't see how you'd get in trouble with the city as long as you inform potential renters that they are slightly undersized and the windows are legit-sized egress windows. I would want egress windows whether code requires or not.

  19. #7694
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    1,374
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Don't you have to have a closet to call it a bedroom. At least some places.
    I don't see how you'd get in trouble with the city as long as you inform potential renters that they are slightly undersized and the windows are legit-sized egress windows. I would want egress windows whether code requires or not.
    One room actually has a half finished closet. Would need to finish it but it is there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    You just have 2 non-conforming bedrooms. Nothing more nothing less. Some jurisdictions have regulations regarding egress (window usually) for rentals but most do not.
    I think here is the answer. I reached out to a realtor friend last night and she said the same thing. Just advertise an non-egress bedroom and you are good to go. But you can still count them in your bedroom count.

  20. #7695
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,474
    Storm door hardware: anyone have a good source on decent quality closers, handles, and hinges? Seems the box store and even local supply house products only last a few years. Closers are the worst but I’ve had finish fail on handles and hinge pins that keep falling out. Willing to spend more for decent quality. Storm doors are wooden with full length glass for winter and screens for summer.

  21. #7696
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by PeachesNCream View Post
    Just advertise an non-egress bedroom and you are good to go. But you can still count them in your bedroom count.
    Why advertise it as non-egress? That sounds dangerous and I though you mentioned fire escape/egress. If you are just renting it, you may be able to call it whatever- many of the rules apply to selling. Large den, nonconforming bedroom that can fit queen bed, etc. all sound better than death trap. Just call it a small bedroom and you can discuss it when the people show up to look.

    I think all the 'must have closet' rules are either urban legend or particular to local MLS which you don't have to use. It varies by locality, but the rules for a bedroom are usually on size, egress, and some sort of temperature regulation. But having something in there to put your things will help rent it.

  22. #7697
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    Just call them bonus rooms

  23. #7698
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    Needs to have a closet for a Realtor to call it a bedroom….

    Needs to have a 20”x24” window per IBC for a fire marshal, building official, lawyer, or insurance company to call it a bedroom….

    Calling something a “non-egress bedroom” seems like a great way to sound stupid to the wrong people.


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  24. #7699
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    1,374
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Just call them bonus rooms
    It's a 1bed/1bath, if I could call it a 2bed/1bath, it has a much better value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbowski View Post
    Why advertise it as non-egress? That sounds dangerous and I though you mentioned fire escape/egress. If you are just renting it, you may be able to call it whatever- many of the rules apply to selling. Large den, nonconforming bedroom that can fit queen bed, etc. all sound better than death trap. Just call it a small bedroom and you can discuss it when the people show up to look.

    I think all the 'must have closet' rules are either urban legend or particular to local MLS which you don't have to use. It varies by locality, but the rules for a bedroom are usually on size, egress, and some sort of temperature regulation. But having something in there to put your things will help rent it.
    I misspoke, I meant nonconforming. I think this is the route I will go.

    It does have temp regulation, will need to upgrade the window, but it won't meet size regulation by a foot.

  25. #7700
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,260
    What is your short term goal ? If your trying to get max rent make sure you have windows large enough to escape during a fire and advertise as 1/1 plus 2 bonus rooms and let the renter(s) figure it out. It all depends on your local rental market on how desperate people are for housing. Long term value probably would makes sense to add a legal second bedroom by moving a wall and bracing in a header creatively(legally).

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