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  1. #1351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Certainly not ideal, as expressed by the two different HVAC companies.
    But they were both like, well in the scheme of things it’ll work for a while.

    The one thing we didn’t discuss I’m curious why, is that although there’s an exterior cold air intake for the combustion, the cold living space air is returned from inside as per the diagram. I just learned a few days ago that in some cold climates they pipe the cold air from exterior to be forced through the furnace to interior. Seems like more energy to heat the super chilled air, but cause less draft indoors. Where’s the line in the sand in cost benefit there?
    the standard has changed to start coupling HRV's & ERV's with the forced air systems (some states are starting to require them)
    they temper temp for fresh air (& humidity in case of ERV)


    please note: not all hvac contractors are up on best practices; so, what's "common" may be at odds with what is a better system. And, money isn't unimportant...so that always plays a factor

    best practices for energy & comfort don't necessarily align with a financial payback, but I suspect pricing will start to align as it gets more common

  2. #1352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Certainly not ideal, as expressed by the two different HVAC companies.
    But they were both like, well in the scheme of things it’ll work for a while.

    The one thing we didn’t discuss I’m curious why, is that although there’s an exterior cold air intake for the combustion, the cold living space air is returned from inside as per the diagram. I just learned a few days ago that in some cold climates they pipe the cold air from exterior to be forced through the furnace to interior. Seems like more energy to heat the super chilled air, but cause less draft indoors. Where’s the line in the sand in cost benefit there?
    There's return air, supply air, make-up air, combustion air and exhaust. If you need a rabbit hole to go down into, HVAC and google are made for each another.

  3. #1353
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    Sep 2006
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    Iíll put that in the agenda for the 37th home improvement rabbit hole.

  4. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    I remodeled a carriage house and the HVAC guyís recommendation was the throw the furnace in the attic to save space. .
    um like I just came home for lunch and my afternoon bong hit
    and out of all the things I plan on fucking up later this afternoon at work
    well this will probably be the least likely thing I'll every screw up in my short carrer

  5. #1355
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    Sep 2006
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    Thanks Fred. Chinese buffet on me for a more through review next time you’re in town.

  6. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideski View Post
    Thanks Fred. Chinese buffet on me for a more through review next time you’re in town.
    word, I'll have to skip the buffet, I just listened to someone lecture me for two hours in the car yesterday about how I'm changing my diet

  7. #1357
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    Sep 2001
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    fatfred?

  8. #1358
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    Dec 2016
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    In a van... down by the river
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    fatfred?
    Name:  430d8578f816e214bc5c8f515e2bda31.jpg
Views: 294
Size:  58.9 KB

  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    word, I'll have to skip the buffet, I just listened to someone lecture me for two hours in the car yesterday about how I'm changing my diet
    Woah, he really is married. Vibes.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  10. #1360
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    Sep 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    yeah, that's admittedly a bit strong

    Conventional wisdom has historically skated by because marginal conditions weren't causing immediate damage. We're starting to realize that we can improve the system with marked improvements.
    Plus as buildings become more airtight for energy purposes building science becomes far more important. Air leaks cure a lot of mistakes.

  11. #1361
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    Nov 2002
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    6,162
    Air leaks cure a lot of mistakes.
    So true. Energy Star, Blower Door Tests, Air Handlers, Net Zero...it is so fucking expensive and requires that every detail be properly designed and trade coordinated. If you fuck it up, it is a bad deal. I'd go conditioned crawler, zip sheathing, batts is the the wall, spray the lid...call it go.

  12. #1362
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    Jan 2008
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    When we added a second story to our house in Sacramento 30 years ago there was no reasonable way to ducts from the asbestos covered 1930's gravity furnace in the basement up to the second floor, so we added a furnace and AC in the attic. However, the attic is very well ventilated so no problems since.

  13. #1363
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    If you make the attic part of the insulated/conditioned space then it's no problem putting a furnace/air handler/whatever up there. The problems come when you put that stuff in a "regular" attic. This video has been played here before, and it's a fairly extreme example, but it gives the idea:


  14. #1364
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    Oct 2003
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    Now, it is a very mild climate, but we see furnaces installed in unconditioned space all the time in western Washington, in retrofits and in new construction. I would say the majority of new homes being built in my jurisdiction today have their furnaces located in an unconditioned attic. Garage installs are also relatively common.

    There's also only one builder I can think of in town who doesn't have most of their ducting in unconditioned space too attic and crawler). Granted, it is all insulated, but still. Code compliant is not synonymous with best practices.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  15. #1365
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    Dec 2007
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    We're looking at building a garage that's attached to the side of our existing house. Door from the garage would enter into the basement of the existing house, which means the 4' foundation wall (standard poured concrete) in the house will need to have an opening cut through it. This is all above grade, so should be relatively straightforward.

    My question: the ideal location for that door is at the corner of the existing house. So the cut through the foundation wall would be very near the corner of the foundation. Is that an issue? Meaning, does the foundation need the support afforded by the corner, or is that not a big deal?

    All of this work would be done by someone who knows what they're doing. I'm just figuring out the layout and trying to get an idea of what's easy, and what's going to be an expensive hassle.

  16. #1366
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    Nov 2005
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    Making the Bowl Great Again
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    It's probably fine.

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    It's probably fine.
    Sweet. That's what I was hoping you'd say.

  18. #1368
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    Jan 2008
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    livin the dream
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    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Typically the corners of any foundation are tied together with reinforcing; 90s at lap splice length, for lateral load (seismic, wind, etc..)

    Itís probably fine to cut the hole.

    An SE would tell you itís not.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
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    Squaw Valley, USA

  19. #1369
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    Full basement or crawl space? Can you see your sill plate and rim board from inside the basement if you pull back the insulation in that corner? Which way do the joists run? Are the walls above gable-end or eave-side? When was the house built? How many stories? Stick-built or timber frame/post-and-beam?

    It's not something that can ascertained with total confidence based on the info you provided, but if you can get a good look at the rim in that corner, you should be able to tell if there are any point loads that are carried down to the foundation in that area, as there should be solid blocking down to the sill plate at those locations. That will give you some idea about the complexity of transferring the load around your new opening and to the foundation.

    How close to the corner would you be cutting it? Make sure you leave enough room for the door framing to land firmly on the foundation. I would imagine you would want 2 trimmer studs and 2 kings on either end of that new header.

    You should be able to cut your opening, frame in the doorway with a substantial header and safely transfer the load from above onto your foundation at either side of your new doorway.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  20. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Full basement or crawl space? Can you see your sill plate and rim board from inside the basement if you pull back the insulation in that corner? Which way do the joists run? Are the walls above gable-end or eave-side? When was the house built? How many stories? Stick-built or timber frame/post-and-beam?
    Full basement. Can't see the sill plate in that specific corner (it's behind drywall). Joists run parallel to the wall that would be cut. Cut wall is on a gable end. That part of the house is about 40 years old, and has 2 stories above it (so three stories total, including the basement, which is mostly above ground).

    It appears to be a combination of stick built and post / beam - there's a center beam running through part of the house, but it doesn't cross the entire width of the house. Which doesn't really make sense to me, but I also don't really know what I'm talking about with that sort of thing. The area above where the cut would be is, as best I can tell, stick built.

    Door would probably be cut as close to the corner as possible, but there's easily room for door framing and that sort of thing. 12" from the corner wouldn't be a problem.

    Of course, the guys that are going to actually do the work will look at all of these things. I'm just trying to come up with a rough plan, that they can turn into a final plan. I figure the more my rough plan is actually doable (without a bunch of expensive work-arounds), the easier and thus cheaper this process will be.

  21. #1371
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    Nov 2002
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    6,162
    I'd cut a bunch of R/Os into concrete. It has always been engineered and it is never as simple as cutting the foundation wall and throwing up some framing. At minimum, there has always been a steel lintel. Sometimes you have screw jack posts, sometimes you have a rebar tie in detail...so the answer is...it depends.

    I've seen the concrete above remodel basement egress windows fail. It is not pretty and will make you wonder if your house is falling down. The remaining concrete above the R/O is basically a beam. Or you could just go for it...what is the worst that could happen?

  22. #1372
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    is your house not worth a consult with an engineer before you pay anyone to cut the foundation? or invest the time in an expensive addition?

    pretending the dude running the saw, or the gc for that matter, has any better idea than you as the homeowner seems ill-advised

    [if the team has a qualified professional, let them do their job and don't try to solve it on a ski forum]

  23. #1373
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post

    [if the team has a qualified professional, let them do their job and don't try to solve it on a ski forum]
    the fuck we supposed to do round here, then?
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  24. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    is your house not worth a consult with an engineer before you pay anyone to cut the foundation? or invest the time in an expensive addition?

    pretending the dude running the saw, or the gc for that matter, has any better idea than you as the homeowner seems ill-advised

    [if the team has a qualified professional, let them do their job and don't try to solve it on a ski forum]
    Yeah, it'll get assessed by a professional. Like I said, I'm just sketching out a rough plan and I'm trying to figure out what will likely work vs. what definitely won't work. The layout works well with the door poking through the foundation near the corner. If that's not feasible, I'll have to rethink the rest of the plan.

    Final call on feasibility is TBD. I promise not to go nuts with a concrete saw based on ski forum advice.

  25. #1375
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    Nov 2005
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    Yeah I bet my shorts it's not engineered for seismic in Flathead County.

    Any legit contractor can probably figure it out, especially once they google their prospective client.

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