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  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    So my contractor is too busy to organize shit in a timely manner, so I went to a couple window and garage stores to get quotes on 7 windows and a garage door.
    Do you have a signed contract? How much is in there for pre-construction? Is an architect involved? What is the project? This is why I run away from bid rate and cost plus contracts for custom projects with a lot of customer decision making. One customer wants to look at eight different types of windows, the other customer just picks the color of the window that the architects specs. I charge hourly for that shit.

    One was wholesale only, NorthwestDoors (fuckers could have at least shown me product), one gave me a garage quote (thank you!), and the other two companies haven't called me back with quotes even after getting back to them via email and phone.
    Pretty standard. You have zero relationship with the suppliers. Homos are notorious for window shopping and tire kicking. Many GC make money on the mark up. We usually get preferential pricing. I know of GC that will demand from the homeowner a receipt for any customer supplied products in the home and charge a percentage on that. I think it is stupid and adversarial.

    Any advice on how to do something simple like get quotes online for a fucking window? JFC I hate the building industry with a passion. Deja vu every time....
    You are undertaking a relatively small project at an extremely busy time. Most people in business follow the money. The construction industry is maxed. If you don't have the stomach for the frustration, don't do the project.[/quote]

    I'm looking for metal/aluminum windows, or just aluminum clad on the outside to save money.
    Why? If your answer is "because I like the way it looks" you are doing it wrong. I haven't dealt with an aluminum residential window in about forever. There are many aluminum commercial units but they are pricey. You are in UT right? Your anodizing will probably fail within 20 years. I'd be looking at vinyl is a 25 year life span is acceptable and a Marvin Integrity for high quality
    I'm looking for a modern metal garage with a smooth finish, seems like everything flush actually has a bumpy pattern on it to hide flaws...is that unavoidable without paying a crazy amount like 10k?
    look around and see how much flat sheet metal finish you see anywhere on anything. Ever handled a piece of sheet metal?

    Seems like Lowes is the only big box store with metal clad windows, they gave me a quote as I sat, some Pella windows that would work. Am I wasting my time dealing with higher end window shops with dumbass salesmen who can't even get a quote out? Should I get pella and and be done with it? Any other brands that I should be looking at?
    I don't know you so I'm not passing judgement but you are throwing up a lot of red flags about being a pain in the ass customer who is the biggest impediment to the success of there own project. You represent your self as cost conscious, extremely selective and condescending towards people in the industry.

    I know it is just the internet and it might not be like that in real life. If you want to vent and bitch, we are here for you. If you want honest advice about how to have a successful project, we are here for that also. If the latter, pump the brakes and tell us what you are trying to do and maybe I can get you going in the right direction.

  2. #1002
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    ^just put some Marvin integrity windows in, they're nice.

  3. #1003
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    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    And there are high end insulated steel or aluminum windows but they are SPENDY
    ...like “if you have to ask, you can’t afford them” spendy

  4. #1004
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    Thanks guys, that's all a big help. I'm all excited on a new building purchase and am frustrated I can't Amazon 1-click everything to get a budget going. I have no clue what ANYTHING costs. I just want to know if windows cost X, then I have Y left over to fix some other things. But everything is a big mystery, so I thought I'd be able to find out some prices myself, since I have the time. Hit a brick wall and had to vent. Foggy, you seem like a great guy to work with, but there are so many horror stories of people working with the fastfreds or much worse in your industry, you can't take offense if some rant it doesn't apply to you, you have to know it DOES apply to a lot of people in your biz. And you are right, a small job like mine is not priority. In my line of biz, every fucking job is as much priority because I treat my customers the same. If I can't do that, I say no to the job. The smaller budget excuse is for people who don't know how to run a biz, period. (Not syaing that's you at all!) So it's frustrating, in the past, (not this project), when I'm treated like I'm a waste of time when I know that's shitty biz practice.

    I do find it weird that you run away from projects where customer wants input. Are you saying you want the choices done between him and the architect beforehand, and you want to come in with all the choices done? That would make sense of course. Totally understandable! I'll try not to question the GC so much if it's not the norm then, and if he has no free time to look at options anyways...

    THAT SAID, the contractor I'm working is a friend and I'm going to work with him and cut him slack as necessary. I like him. He finally called me back and will sort out some window prices Monday. I want to be an informed customer and not waste money, not a pain-in-the-ass customer. I don't see anything wrong knowing what a contractor can get price-wise compared to Lowes, but now I think I should have not told him I went to Lowes, ha.

  5. #1005
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    Most of what you just said supports my hypothesis but nothing sums it up better than
    no free time
    . Nobody works for free these days. Open your checkbook and things will start happening. The fact that you can't get in done yourself is nobody's problem but yours. If you want to vent...we are here. If you want guidance...re-read what I wrote and answer the questions.

  6. #1006
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    RE: amazon 1-click

    construction is nothing like retail

    NOTHING is repeated in projects, as much as it may seem like it. You could roll out the same store in three different indoor malls with the same construction team and have the costs vary just based on the individual locations (layouts might be different; access may be different; labor market may be different; etc)

    or...if you bid the same scope to 3 subs, they may propose doing it slightly differently from each other, so comparing $$'s is not always apples to apples

    there are similarities, of course, but it is so fundamentally different from shopping for things that it really doesn't help to think about it that way

    your project is unique to you & your location & your gc/team

  7. #1007
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    it'd be so much better for GCs if there was just an app for millenials to interface with them via.

  8. #1008
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    Foggy: Whoa, I should have said he has 'no time', not 'free time'. I expect him to charge me for every second he works with/for me. I do the same in my biz.

    All that has happened with this project is he has walked through the building with me, and I listed what I'd like done. I then drew out a somewhat accurate floorplan of the building for him (and me), and highlighted what I want done in an email. Like let's fill in this window for good properly, and replace these, and this is where the new bathroom will go. I haven't heard back on a quote on anything, now he is just getting a window quote on Monday, but I'd love one big quote for everything. SO I don't know what planning costs and I expect to be charged for it. No contract, no estimate, no nothing yet. Makes me a bit concerned but keeping calm. If i had that quote most of my answers would be.....answered.

    Project is a slight remodel, replacing 90"x48"wide windows that are 50? years old with 24"x48" wide fixed, frosted windows with grids. 7 of them. Just for letting in light as all current windows are boarded off. Front door needs a refresh with some windows near it. Building is concrete blocks, so cutting in bigger windows for the front and moving the door I'm guessing will cost me.

    Also adding a second bathroom and putting in a garage door where one was removed and blocked off. Also re-doing some of the interior non-load bearing walls into a more office-friendly floorplan. Once I see the first quote I'll realize what I can and can't do.

    I was thinking of calling a plumber to get a quote on adding a bathroom, is that even out-of-line?

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    RE: amazon 1-click

    construction is nothing like retail

    NOTHING is repeated in projects, as much as it may seem like it. You could roll out the same store in three different indoor malls with the same construction team and have the costs vary just based on the individual locations (layouts might be different; access may be different; labor market may be different; etc)

    or...if you bid the same scope to 3 subs, they may propose doing it slightly differently from each other, so comparing $$'s is not always apples to apples

    there are similarities, of course, but it is so fundamentally different from shopping for things that it really doesn't help to think about it that way

    your project is unique to you & your location & your gc/team
    I know, but that was a TOTAL joke, trying to keep things light here....

  10. #1010
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    What is your budget $50K? $100K? Figure 10% of that to the GC and 10% for architecture, engineering, permits, other pre-construction expenses etc. Tell your buddy that you are willing to start cutting these checks immediately. Then hopefully he can schedule the appropriate site visits. Picking windows is pretty far down the list of priorities right now. If you have to spend $5K to figure out that you can't afford your dream is it worth it for you?

    You did not describe and easy, inexpensive job. Oh...replace "quote" with "estimate" in your vernacular. This will not be a fixed price job. What is the floor construction? Where is the sewer main? Will you have to pay an additional tap fee for the new bathroom? Do you need steel headers for the new windows? What about interior and exterior finish?

    You wanna know "how much?" and the GC is thinking "how much for what?". You need to get to a defined scope to even have a chance at figuring out a budget. All cost deviations and contingencies will be your responsibility.

    Real...you think a plumber can give you a price to add a bathroom? Do you have any idea what trades are involved in adding a bathroom?

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    What is your budget $50K? $100K? Figure 10% of that to the GC and 10% for architecture, engineering, permits, other pre-construction expenses etc. Tell your buddy that you are willing to start cutting these checks immediately. Then hopefully he can schedule the appropriate site visits. Picking windows is pretty far down the list of priorities right now. If you have to spend $5K to figure out that you can't afford your dream is it worth it for you?
    Thinking 50k: as a completely uneducated client. Quickly learning how quick money can be spent. Might have to do some this year, save, do the rest next year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    You did not describe and easy, inexpensive job. Oh...replace "quote" with "estimate" in your vernacular. This will not be a fixed price job. What is the floor construction? Where is the sewer main? Will you have to pay an additional tap fee for the new bathroom? Do you need steel headers for the new windows? What about interior and exterior finish?
    Floor is concrete, sewer main is a few feet from where the new toilet is being placed. Water line is already right where it needs to be for an easy tap....not that I know what an easy tap is, ha. Guessing here. Steel headers should be good to keep in all replacing windows, but will have to get new steel headers for new door and bigger front windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    You wanna know "how much?" and the GC is thinking "how much for what?". You need to get to a defined scope to even have a chance at figuring out a budget. All cost deviations and contingencies will be your responsibility.
    he mentioned already it's a guessing game until he tears into the structure, so copy that. As for defined scope, I thought that was the email I sent. As in he'd read it, and bring his site-knowledge visit to provide me costs. If I have to list everything in great detail I have a lot to learn, shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Real...you think a plumber can give you a price to add a bathroom? Do you have any idea what trades are involved in adding a bathroom?
    I meant just adding pipes and shit, not the whole bathroom. Am I wrong to deal direct for a plumbing quote? Now I think about it I don't really care either way.

    Thanks Foggy.

  12. #1012
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    puff puff the magic dragon
    put plastic up or keep em boarded up
    average 75 windows a year, I hate fucking windows, why do you even need windows when your blinds are closed all the time

  13. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    If I have to list everything in great detail...
    and people think we just draw pretty pictures & decorate shit

  14. #1014
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    Ha. How do you find/vet an architect for a small project like this that no one probably cares to do unless they are inexperienced?

  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    and people think we just draw pretty pictures & decorate shit
    whoa bro
    yeah you do
    got three hrs into a railing for some stairs and a balcony
    cause goof ball drew a pretty picture in his office with his nice computer
    Prolly have six to eight into it all before the shop drawings go to the welder, I'm able to actually able to go buy material, and then send the rest of the shit to the carpenter
    puff puff

    pretty pictures, big fucking dreams, and lots of money
    that's what I live for
    I hate my life but the money is so damn good
    can't belive how many clients called me today fucking sunday bitches, who do they think I am
    puff puff

  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Ha. How do you find/vet an architect for a small project like this that no one probably cares to do unless they are inexperienced?
    Same way you find a dentist or lawyer or doc who does the procedure you want

    Talk to people (gc’s or other property/business owners know who they like), vet their direct experience; interview/talk to them

    It is also possible that you don’t need an architect.

    A “designer” who does tenant improvements might also be able to help you (depends on the professional exemption law in your jurisdiction). Could be way cheaper.
    Last edited by acinpdx; 05-19-2019 at 07:56 PM.

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    Same way you find a dentist or lawyer or doc who does the procedure you want

    Talk to people (gc’s or other property/business owners know who they like), vet their direct experience; interview/talk to them
    Of course, but do you agree it’s small potatoes and the good guys will pass it up?

  18. #1018
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    Lot of window talk on the last page...

    I need to replace 2 windows (well 1 window and 1 door turning into a window). Double hung, factory mulled, total width about 72".

    Anderson 400 or Marvin Integrity?

  19. #1019
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    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Andersen is a wood window with alum cladding

    Marvin Integrity is a fiberglass window with optional wood interior

    Depends on what you want and what will get you better pricing locally...

    I’ve found regional access is sometimes part of the equation

    Which matches your house?

  20. #1020
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    Muted, think relationship...not transaction. That is why you need a GC and you need to let him/her do his job. I've know my go to engineer/architect for 20+ yrs., I can get him to do small jobs like spec glue lams and bracket details for deck repairs. Guess what? He has customer relationships also. Frequently, he needs to recommend a contractor that he will have to work with. See how that works? So many people these days have no idea how business gets done.

    Freddy, stair and landing railings are probably the most classically fucked design. The framers don't drop the first tread the the stair rail doesn't plane with the landing, nothing is blocked so it's all floppy cock, architects generally have no idea. I bring the guys over from the weld shop at $300/hr for all of us and site build a template. Fuck it.

  21. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    and people think we just press a button on our computer and it draws pretty pictures & decorates shit
    FIFY


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    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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  22. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Muted, think relationship...not transaction. That is why you need a GC and you need to let him/her do his job. I've know my go to engineer/architect for 20+ yrs., I can get him to do small jobs like spec glue lams and bracket details for deck repairs. Guess what? He has customer relationships also. Frequently, he needs to recommend a contractor that he will have to work with. See how that works? So many people these days have no idea how business gets done.

    Freddy, stair and landing railings are probably the most classically fucked design. The framers don't drop the first tread the the stair rail doesn't plane with the landing, nothing is blocked so it's all floppy cock, architects generally have no idea. I bring the guys over from the weld shop at $300/hr for all of us and site build a template. Fuck it.
    OK, now I know why I’m coming across as a PITA customer. I have no clue how anything works in planning for a remodel, ha. Thanks for the education Foggy.

    I also just googled “why hire an architect” and, uh, that was an eye-opener, too. I’m doing this all wrong.

  23. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    whoa bro
    yeah you do
    got three hrs into a railing for some stairs and a balcony
    cause goof ball drew a pretty picture in his office with his nice computer
    Prolly have six to eight into it all before the shop drawings go to the welder, I'm able to actually able to go buy material, and then send the rest of the shit to the carpenter
    puff puff

    pretty pictures, big fucking dreams, and lots of money
    that's what I live for
    I hate my life but the money is so damn good
    can't belive how many clients called me today fucking sunday bitches, who do they think I am
    puff puff
    Why do you hate your life Fred? I've been doing this shit ( contractor) for getting close to 30 years. It beats the fuck out a working in some office and you know it. Now quit bitching and turn to phone off on the weekend.
    Rube Goldberg inspired drawings equal profit.

  24. #1024
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    I hope this is an easy question. Plugging in some night lights yesterday, I noticed the plug that is part of the Jacuzzi tub timer was super dim??? The Jacuzzi motor no longer works. Is there something in common with these two issues that an electrician could possibly fix for not all the cash in my wallet? Hoping not enough power is going to the timer for some silly reason and if replaced, boom, the Jacuzzi motor works again. That would make the wife very happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  25. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiballs View Post
    Rube Goldberg inspired drawings equal profit.
    No one wants to pay up front, nor allow the time needed, on a project for dialed in detailing on projects that would reduce padded bids and inherent construction inefficiencies leading to change orders. ('We'll just work it out with our contractor.') Plus, unfortunately, there's the liability factor where the more the detail in the drawings, the more nit picking and finger pointing can occur from the contractor, owner, subs, lawyers etc if the intent is missed and there is a screw up.

    The best projects are the one's where there is inherent trust that all are working together and are allowed to do their job. Being able to work with the contractor, subs, suppliers and other talent during the process to work things out, get ahead of problems and costs is really good process.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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