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  1. #7701
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    465
    Quote Originally Posted by PeachesNCream View Post
    will need to upgrade the window, but it won't meet size regulation by a foot.
    I'd try to get it to meet regulation. Will be easier to sell- nobody wants to buy a liability if they are looking to rent it out.

  2. #7702
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    8,075
    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post

    Needs to have a 20”x24” window per IBC for a fire marshal, building official, lawyer, or insurance company to call it a bedroom….
    With 5.7 square feet of open-able space. Minimum height 24", minimum width 20". With the bottom of the opening no more than 36" off floor and hardware no more than 54" off of the floor. As adopted by local ordinance anyway, may vary by location.

  3. #7703
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Just an FYI, a realtor can call a room whatever they pull out of their asses. The appraiser has the final word on what it really is, which is more important in regards to valuation for comps, loans, refis, etc.

    If I were landlording it, I would make sure they have egress sized windows and like mentioned above, call them bonus rooms. Let the renter do what they want.

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  4. #7704
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    21,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbowski View Post

    I think all the 'must have closet' rules are either urban legend or particular to local MLS which you don't have to use. It varies by locality, but the rules for a bedroom are usually on size, egress, and some sort of temperature regulation. But having something in there to put your things will help rent it.
    This is what I meant--local realtors, appraisers, etc may want a closet to call it a bedroom, but for purposes of renting it out, if you can get a bed in the room it's a bedroom, and I would call it that. Bonus room is another real estate term but I wouldn't use that in a rental ad. And people used armoires long before they invented closets.

    FWIW casements give you a lot more egress area for the size of the window opening, but you want the kind that hinge near one jamb, not the easy-to-clean kind that open in the middle. (Renters don't clean windows anyway.)

  5. #7705
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    So. VT
    Posts
    2,817
    When did the egress size change?

    My house was built in '85, none of my windows meet current egress requirements. I'm not about to replace them just because a standard changed.

  6. #7706
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    18,259
    your house is “preexisting non conforming”
    Most code changes don’t force retrofit, unless you make other changes.

    Around here it’s more of a septic issue. Can’t claim more beds than the septic permit. And any room with a closet can get you busted for an illegal bedroom. So buy an armoire instead.

    Egress via window has been code for a long time for basements. I guess it’s the fact that you are trapped by the stairs.
    And yet. You can be trapped in a second floor bedroom. So yeah, they want you to be able to jump out.

  7. #7707
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    59715
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    5,618
    Quote Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
    When did the egress size change?

    My house was built in '85, none of my windows meet current egress requirements. I'm not about to replace them just because a standard changed.
    I'm not sure exactly when, but it's all about your appetite for risk and potential guilt. Most often I see window heights greater than 44" off the ground. There's nothing that says you can't put a footstool in front of the window to make it conform.

    If you're talking about a few inches here and there on an overall size of opening, a fire is pretty motivational to make people fit through if they need to get out. And sizes are supposed to allow a firefighter with SCBA entry for rescue - but I'll tell you, I was a firefighter for a time, we have big tools that can make windows egress size in about 30 seconds.

    But when it came to rentals, I made sure everything was up to current standards. I made a point of not being a slum lord or renting out death traps like some fuckfaces do around here, and I don't hesitate a second to drop a dime on any shitbag renting out basement apartments with those little 1 x 2 awning windows in the bedrooms.

  8. #7708
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    8,075
    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    . - but I'll tell you, I was a firefighter for a time, we have big tools that can make windows egress size in about 30 seconds.
    Not in a basement window you can’t. Early in my career I was on a fire where a teenage girl died in ‘bedroom’ with one of those tiny, head high windows in the foundation. The few of us that are still around from that fire all agree that she was probably dead before we even arrived on scene, but we’ll never really know.

  9. #7709
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    Jan 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    Not in a basement window you can’t. Early in my career I was on a fire where a teenage girl died in ‘bedroom’ with one of those tiny, head high windows in the foundation. The few of us that are still around from that fire all agree that she was probably dead before we even arrived on scene, but we’ll never really know.
    did you read my post?

  10. #7710
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    did you read my post?
    I did, I’m agreeing with you, sorry if it sounded like a call out? Just wanted to clarify that the basements are the real problem.

  11. #7711
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    So. VT
    Posts
    2,817
    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post

    If you're talking about a few inches here and there on an overall size of opening, a fire is pretty motivational to make people fit through if they need to get out. And sizes are supposed to allow a firefighter with SCBA entry for rescue - but I'll tell you, I was a firefighter for a time, we have big tools that can make windows egress size in about 30 seconds.
    I am. I think when I bought a couple replacement windows I'm one "size" small for egress. Pretty sure the 2 replacement windows meet current code.

    On a rental if it's 2" smaller do you have to retrofit?

  12. #7712
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    18,259
    Replacement windows are interesting

    If you live in a hurricane zone any new window opening must meet impact code.
    But replacing existing windows is exempt.

    It might be similar on egress. But I’m not sure. Probably not since it’s a human life and safety code.

    An old window next to a door is now tempered. If you replace an old annealed window it must be tempered now. So it’s worth asking the question on replacement windows.

    Make an anonymous call to the local building department via pay phone.

  13. #7713
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    59715
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    Quote Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
    I am. I think when I bought a couple replacement windows I'm one "size" small for egress. Pretty sure the 2 replacement windows meet current code.

    On a rental if it's 2" smaller do you have to retrofit?
    Rentals are supposed to conform to all fire safety laws. And there's no "grandfathering" FWIW - I laugh at that one when some slumlord tries to pass off the deathtrap basement bedroom windows as "grandfathered".

    It's all up to your appetite for risk. If some stupid student passes out drunk while frying bacon and dies in the resulting conflagration, and then the parents come after you with an army of lawyers because a window was 2" too small, can you stomach that possibility?

    We never had much appetite for risk with our rentals and tried to stupid proof them as much as possible. The gauge we worked off was all the stupid shit I did when I was a student which was considerable and just about all encompassing looking back at things.

  14. #7714
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    livin the dream
    Posts
    5,277
    There is no “grandfathering” allowed with NFPA regardless. It’s just impossible for any jurisdiction to enforce…


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    Best Skier on the Mountain
    Self-Certified
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    Squaw Valley, USA

  15. #7715
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    That's true. In a perfect world it should be self enforcing, but we all know what the chances of that are.

    A fun example is when I lived in Santa Cruz and worked as a builder. When the city inspector came out to inspect a remodel, they literally had tunnel vision walking on and off the property. If they started looking around for shit, they'd see every garage, shed and chicken coop being rented commando along with every other violation under the sun and every house on the street would get a red tag. There would be riots in the streets if they took a good look around so they just played stupid unless someone dropped a dime or some poor bastard died in a firetrap.

  16. #7716
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    21,401
    Then there's the Oakland CA Ghost Ship.

  17. #7717
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    59715
    Posts
    5,618
    Chicago and their famous donations to the city inspector retirement fund to get projects checked off, "look out for that collapsing deck!!"

  18. #7718
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    2 hours from anything
    Posts
    10,214
    Our hot water will occasionally fade, not start up for a long time or get cooler. It’s typically brief but will last for a minute or two. This started a few weeks ago. We have a hot water recirculating pump. I’m guessing this is due to the pump or valve malfunctioning and pulling in cold water? Anyone have experience with this?


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  19. #7719
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sandy by the front
    Posts
    2,312
    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Chicago and their famous donations to the city inspector retirement fund to get projects checked off, "look out for that collapsing deck!!"
    Calling the city about an "unsafe porch" was a favorite when you didn't like your neighbor.

  20. #7720
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Making the Bowl Great Again
    Posts
    13,647
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
    Calling the city about an "unsafe porch" was a favorite when you didn't like your neighbor.
    I had a client doing a massive remodel and his dumbass architect and contractor started building a deck way too close to a creek in town. Neighbors on both sides complained. He hired me and we made a presentation to the Conservation District, which issues permits for encroachments on streams. They gave us what was essentially a variance because we came to them with puppy dog eyes and all that shit, but during their site visits, noticed that both of the neighbors had decks that were even closer, and they red-tagged both of them, which means the neighbors can never rebuild those decks.

    Snitches get stitches, etc.

    This was about 4 years ago, I think. That same contractor then left an oil-soaked rag in the house and there was a big fire inside. They "remediated" the smoke but the owner bought another house and that house is still sitting there empty and unfinished on one of the best lots in the entire town.

  21. #7721
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,216
    I have a first floor bathroom with a sink on an exterior wall. There's a basement below with good access. The supply lines for the sink go through the exterior wall, and one of them is frozen now after subzero temps overnight. I left the cold water on, but didn't think to turn on the hot tap, so that's on me. The lines are pex and as far as I know there are no connections in the section that's in the wall (only about 3 feet or so), so I'm not too worried about a leak once things thaw.

    Question: is there any reason not to replumb this sink so the supply lines come up through the floor? As far as I can see, that would pretty much eliminate freezing risk for these lines.

  22. #7722
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    1,112
    A better question is: Is there a good reason to put water pipes in an exterior wall?

    I believe that in cold regions they don’t even allow new installations of water piping in exterior walls.

  23. #7723
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,216
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnew_guy View Post
    A better question is: Is there a good reason to put water pipes in an exterior wall?

    I believe that in cold regions they don’t even allow new installations of water piping in exterior walls.
    well, yeah, I was wondering about that too - "was there a good reason to do it this way?". Sounds like the answer is no.

  24. #7724
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,422
    I think the answer to your question is in the basement. Is it unfinished? How are the existing supply lines run?

    You want to run the plumbing in the floor system and interior walls were possible.

  25. #7725
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I think the answer to your question is in the basement. Is it unfinished? How are the existing supply lines run?

    You want to run the plumbing in the floor system and interior walls were possible.
    Basement is unfinished / unheated, but is staying in the 40s - there's an NG forced-air furnace down there. Existing supply lines are run along a joist and then into the exterior wall. Not much has to change to come up through the floor, it would just take an elbow joint a few inches away from the wall. Doesn't look like there's anything structural in the way.

    Can you think of a potential concern that might make the exterior wall a better option? I don't have pex tools, I'd probably just call a plumber for this and I'm sure they'll have an opinion too.

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