Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[anotherVTskibum]

When installing a new outlet in a metal box, is it preferable to ground to the box vs to the outlet? Seems like either way the outlet frame being screwed to the box will ensure both are grounded.

Related question: does the answer change when the outlet isn't the last fixture in the circuit?

I've been using the grounding screw in the outlet for both cases, with a pigtail going to a wire nut where it meets both incoming and outgoing grounds in the latter, but a couple of existing outlets I recently opened up were grounded to the box and not directly to the fixture.

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[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Is the metal outlet box attached to metal conduit back to the panel?

[anotherVTskibum]

Is the metal outlet box attached to metal conduit back to the panel?

No. The boxes in question are otherwise ungrounded, wiring in question is modern NMC that is not in conduit.

I'm trying to avoid touching any of the older stuff except occasionally trimming back stray dead ends and/or installing a box so I don't have wire nuts on live wires just hanging out.

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[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Attach ground to outlet/receptacle.

[RootSkier]

Well that was great. Just got back from a meeting with the design/build folks and the preliminary budget is 70% over their predicted amount that they gave us during the schematic design phase. So now we are well into five figures just on the design side of this thing and are basically no further along than when we started. Fuck. Fucking fuck.

[Core Shot]

Attach ground to outlet/receptacle.

This would be my preference

Code probably says ground both.

But the outlet screws should ground the box
And who’s touching the box??

[EWG]

Ok, believe it or not, it's significantly better. I think I might do it another time or two, but it's way higher pressure than it was. No idea why it would work. But it did.

[AdironRider]

Well that was great. Just got back from a meeting with the design/build folks and the preliminary budget is 70% over their predicted amount that they gave us during the schematic design phase. So now we are well into five figures just on the design side of this thing and are basically no further along than when we started. Fuck. Fucking fuck.

Vibes. You are only just getting started

[Timberridge]

Yo Fred...


https://ridecake.com/en/shop/bikes/work/osa-work/

[Garbowski]

Going to have to order bespoke lined Carhartts to ride that thing.

[snoqpass]

Going to have to order bespoke lined Carhartts to ride that thing.

I just wish they would sell the smaller KAPEX in the US

[coldfoot]

Subfloor question. Spent way too much on a 70s house, saturated with popcorn up high and gnarly shag carpet down low. Once I'm done with the ceilings I plan on replacing the carpet with floating vinyl or something, but peeking under carpet I see the subfloor is particle board. Really don't want to/can't afford to replace it, is it worth sealing it with a coat of primer or something before reflooring? Insights appreciated.

[climberevan]

The particle board atop plywood thing was very 70s. You can just go around and add screws as necessary to fix squeaks and then put your new floor right on it. Whatever off-gassing the particle board had to do has long since passed.

Oh, and if you're going to scrape the popcorn (damped first, of course) yourself, leave the carpet in until that's finished. It will catch it all and then you can just roll it up and carry it to the dump.

[bagtagley]

70s popcorn ceiling likely contains asbestos, no?

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

70s popcorn ceiling likely contains asbestos, no?

Possibly. Get it tested.

Just ran a test on a 1978 popcorn ceiling and it came back 8% asbestos.

[Core Shot]

Possibly. Get it tested.

Just ran a test on a 1978 popcorn ceiling and it came back 8% asbestos.

Wow.
That’s sad. By 1978 they knew how bad that shit was. And they still used it? WTF

[skaredshtles]

When did they outlaw asbestos in popcorn ceiling material?

Asking for... a friend.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

They stopped manufacturing in '77 but shelf stock was still used after so anything prior to '80 should be tested.

[Dantheman]

Wow.
That’s sad. By 1978 they knew how bad that shit was. And they still used it? WTF

Asbestos wasn't banned until 1989, and even that is a limited ban that only bans new uses of asbestos in certain products (https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/asbesto...gister-notices). Asbestos continues to be used in gaskets, friction products, roofing materials, fireproofing materials and many other common consumer-level products.

Lead poisoning has been known since antiquity, and the dangers of leaded gasoline specifically were known in the 1920s, but phase-out of leaded gasoline didn't begin until 1976 (and only after multiple lawsuits brought by producers of tetraethyllead) and leaded fuel wasn't completely banned in US on-road vehicles until 1996. The concentration of lead in the blood of the U.S. population dropped 78% from 1976 to 1991. Globally, leaded fuel wasn't completely phased out until 2021, and leaded fuel is still used in the USA in some aircraft, racing cars, farm equipment, and marine engines.

[dunfree]

Actuarial knew it killed in the 1910s. Doctors knew of the dangers of asbestos in the 1920s. Manufacturers were well aware of the risks by the 1930s toworkers. But there was money to be made so they said “fuck you” and lied. John’s-mansville were shitty humans, no surprise the ceo founded the AEI

[Ted Striker]

70s popcorn ceiling likely contains asbestos, no?

Pretty much guaranteed. The last time I sent a popcorn sample was about a year ago, and it came back "Chrysotile 3%, Friable" <= that means breaks up into small enough particles to get into your lungs. That was from a house built in the late 70s.

Western Analytical Lab https://www.asbestostesting.com

Wear a mask and goggles and gloves
Get a disposable paint suit onsie
Place plastic on floor
Spray popcorn with water mist.
Scrape with big scraper onto plastic
Throw everything out including onsie and gloves

To add to whyturn's list:

If there's a forced air furnace, turn it off. Cover all heating vents and the cold air return with plastic, and tape.

Doing one room at a time and sealing the room off from the rest of the building is a good idea. Open window with a box fan drawing outward it isn't a bad idea either (depending on what's out there). The pros have to filter it, but wet popcorn isn't going to float around much.

If you're disturbing friable material, spend the money on a good mask: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...ochure-pdf.pdf

Double bag and tape all of the removed material. If you're doing it the legal way (by taking it to a facility that accepts hazmat) it must be labeled as well.

[alpinevibes]

Just had to have an asbestos test done on Monday for a water line that sprung a leak in our ceiling (condo built in 2007)

To a avoid a test and remove more than 32sq ft of drywall: CO law requires the building to be newer than Oct of 1988 and have a signed document from the architect that it was built with non asbestos-containing materials - https://arvada.org/source/Building%2...ut%20cdphe.pdf

Our buliding/HOA didn't have the document and that added 24hrs of water spraying into the drywall before they could find and stop the leak...

[climberevan]

I guess it's been long enough in this thread that we need to circle back around to popcorn/asbestos. Is there an actual schedule for this stuff, like the one for bike threads and chain waxing?

I don't mean to minimize the danger of asbestosis, but for a one-time removal of popcorn a respirator with P100 cartridges will be more than adequate to reduce the risk to near zero. The people who suffered from long term health effects were breathing the dust daily.

Of course standard procedure is to keep it damp. I recommend NOT using a wire wheel on a grinder to remove it.

[Dantheman]

I don't mean to minimize the danger of asbestosis, but for a one-time removal of popcorn a respirator with P100 cartridges will be more than adequate to reduce the risk to near zero. The people who suffered from long term health effects were breathing the dust daily.

Absolutely, and chrysotile is only marginally more dangerous at most than normal construction dust or tgapp's concrete grinding dust. It's the amphibole category (crocidolite, tremolite, anthophyllite, amosite and actinolite) that's the nasty stuff.

[Ted Striker]

I don't mean to minimize the danger of asbestosis, but for a one-time removal of popcorn a respirator with P100 cartridges will be more than adequate to reduce the risk to near zero. The people who suffered from long term health effects were breathing the dust daily.

Of course standard procedure is to keep it damp. I recommend NOT using a wire wheel on a grinder to remove it.

100% agree. Mesothelioma was generally from occupational exposure over a lifetime. Lots of people lived in houses with popcorn, plaster, and flooring that contained asbestos without any ill-effects. Just don't disturb it, and if you do, take the (frankly, fairly easy) precautions.

The biggest PIA is finding a facility that will take it (and the price gouging)